HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #381  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2008, 5:49 PM
citizen j's Avatar
citizen j citizen j is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,029
Shame about Atlanta -- it goes without saying that it's an important transborder destination. Minneapolis on Northwest got announced last year and then seems to have slipped off the radar. Does anyone know if that got axed, too?
__________________
The world is so full of a number of things
-- Robert Louis Stevenson
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #382  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2008, 4:30 PM
YowItaliano YowItaliano is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 53
So Far So GOOD: YOW-FRA!!!!

Air Canada has already twice issued new route reductions schedules for Fall `08 and YOW-FRA has not been touched!!!!
Could it be possible that AC838/839 stay daily through the winter???
ALSO, for anyone in the "KNOW", how many passengers use YOW for connecting on the FRA flight???


UPDATE!!! LOOKS like I spoke to soon!!!!
The online timetable now shows direct flights (AC838/839) operating on: (3x) Tues, Thurs, and Sat. for the winter
AC 838 to depart at 9:55 PM and arrive in Franfurt at 11:15 AM
AC 839 to depart at 2 PM and arrive in Ottawa at 4:30 PM

Last edited by YowItaliano; Jul 13, 2008 at 5:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #383  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2008, 10:55 PM
FFX-ME's Avatar
FFX-ME FFX-ME is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,053
Does another airline still serve Atlanta? If not, common!!! why not, its the most important airport in america
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #384  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2008, 12:38 AM
eemy's Avatar
eemy eemy is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFX-ME View Post
Does another airline still serve Atlanta? If not, common!!! why not, its the most important airport in america
It's not really an important airport for Ottawa though. The only part of the US that it is really ideally located for connections is Florida. It's a little bit surprising to see the route gone, but not overly so.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #385  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2008, 2:14 AM
Mille Sabords's Avatar
Mille Sabords Mille Sabords is offline
Elle est déjà vide!
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Big Bad Ottawa
Posts: 2,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
My contact at AC tells me the following information regarding Frankfurt:

- The route is performing very well.
- The route will be 'just fine' going forward. There will be no cancellation.
- There will be a frequency reduction in the winter consistent with Air Canada's network-wide winter slow-down.
This previous post seems to cover the Frankfurt situation. It was going to be reduced in frequency for the winter one way or another, consistent with travel volumes. I ran into German tourists this weekend who were from Frankfurt and had flown to Ottawa on that very flight, they were very happy with it and their visit here.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #386  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2008, 1:50 PM
YOWflier's Avatar
YOWflier YOWflier is offline
Melissa: fabulous.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: YOW/CYOW/CUUP
Posts: 3,023
It is sad to lose Atlanta but as mentioned it's not even close to the most important US destination for Ottawa. I've travelled a fair bit to the US and never once did I consider a connection in Atlanta. Not only is it totally out of the way for most trips, but it's also probably the least comfortable option you can pick out of Ottawa (who wants to fly a CRJ for 3 hours?) And with the recent Delta/Northwest merger, the Delta faithful will still be able to fly through Detroit and accumulate mileage/status.

I'd say the most important US destination honour goes to Chicago O'Hare. It's both a Star Alliance (United) and OneWorld (American) hub, and between UA and AA there are 8 daily flights (5x UA, 3x AA).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #387  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2008, 7:51 PM
Radster Radster is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chelsea
Posts: 997
I flew through Atlanta quite a few times, as did my gf and many of my friends, mainly on flights to/from South America, as Delta had some of the lowest rates for S.A. At the very least, I hope these low rates will remain through other connecting cities now.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #388  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2008, 8:30 PM
clynnog clynnog is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 463
NW Airlines are not my fave's

My family and I are heading to the Pacific NW tomorrow (on United)...we are scheduled to come back on NW from Portland to YOW with a change in MSP....that return flight is on August 2..today my wife called to confirm that and lo and behold that flight no longer exists. They claim they called us in April and emailed us this information.

The end result is we have to hop from Portland to MSP to Daytrois (hopefully be able to see some grit as we take off and land) to YOW...

NW didn't seem to care and claim they were going to remind us of the cancelled flight about 5 days beforehand...(at which point we would be on vacation and out of contact).

Anybody got any tips on how to squeeze NW dry and get a hotel or some other thing out of them

After my wife politely spoke to them for about 30 minutes and the convesation was ending, the NW rep asked if we wanted to book a car rental or hotel with them. The response was curt and not in NW's favour.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #389  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2008, 2:58 AM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 24,029
No tips on squeezing perks from NWA but don't despair re Detroit airport. Transitted via Detroit twice this past week and, in my opinion, it is a terrific airport.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #390  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2008, 12:12 AM
cityguy's Avatar
cityguy cityguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Windsor
Posts: 754
Got new today that my flight from Ottawa to Frankfurt has been cancelled.Dam now I have to fly to Toronto first.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #391  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2008, 2:20 PM
YOWflier's Avatar
YOWflier YOWflier is offline
Melissa: fabulous.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: YOW/CYOW/CUUP
Posts: 3,023
I'm not sure about that. If your plans allow for it you might be able to change your departure +/- 1 day to catch the nonstop on a day it operates. Changes like this are usually allowed in cases of involuntary itinerary change such as yours (i.e. you're not to blame for the change). In fact, I'd INSIST on it.

Something similar happened to me last year and they were pretty accommodating. If they do not let you change your departure date so you can get on the nonstop, try and get a free upgrade to Executive First. Call up AC right away and don't accept nothing as compensation for the inconvenience this is causing you.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #392  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 2:41 AM
cityguy's Avatar
cityguy cityguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Windsor
Posts: 754
I have to return on a certian day,so Air Canada says I can insist on nothing.I bought it on Expedia,so what is available is very restrictive.--I say this after 90 minutes on the phone.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #393  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 5:06 PM
YOWflier's Avatar
YOWflier YOWflier is offline
Melissa: fabulous.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: YOW/CYOW/CUUP
Posts: 3,023
Sorry to hear about that. If you had booked AC direct they might have been a bit more accommodating ... at least they were with me last year when one of my flights was cancelled. The difference was that I had booked AC direct. Sadly, most airlines/hotels/etc. treat customers that have booked on Expedia/Travelocity/similar as second class citizens.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #394  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 1:37 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,477
Thursday, August 07, 2008
Received | Reçu: 2008-08-07 2:56 AM THE OTTAWA CITIZEN (FINAL)
BUSINESS & TECHNOLOGY, Page: D1 / FRONT
2376 words | mots

Airports fly in face of industry woes
Expansion projects defy current fuel, fare crunch
Gordon Isfeld and Helen Morris, The Ottawa Citizen; with files from Canwest News Service

These are turbulent times for air travel.

Profits at the major carriers are being threatened by soaring fuel prices and passengers are being hit by higher fares and surcharges to cover those additional costs.

At the same time, there's a growing awareness -- among consumers and corporate leaders -- of the environmental impact of carbon emissions and concerns over how to reduce them.

But take a closer look and you'll see signs of business as usual, and a lot more, as airports across Canada undergo major expansion and improvements.

Over the next dozen or so years, more than $7 billion will be plowed into airport infrastructure projects -- from adding and upgrading amenities, to wholesale reconstruction.

Most of the money for these projects is coming from airport improvement fees collected from passengers and the issuance of bonds by individual airport authorities.

Canadian airports have already invested in excess of $9.5 billion in infrastructure improvements over the past 15 years, according to the Canadian Airports Council, which represents about 180 airports.

Much of the planning and budgeting for this expansion was done before the burst of the technology bubble and the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the United States.

Since then, the airline industry has been struggling to regain the six-per-cent annual growth it had enjoyed for the previous quarter of a century, says Joseph D'Cruz, professor of strategic management at the University of Toronto's Rotman School of Business.

"So, we've lost seven or eight years of growth," he says.

Record-high oil prices only steepened the industry's climb back to recovery.

Major airlines have raised fuel surcharges and added baggage fees to cushion the increased costs. Others have also slashed jobs and services. Recently, Air Canada -- the country's largest airline -- announced 2,000 staff cuts and a seven-per-cent reduction in its routes, followed by a decision by its regional carrier Jazz to eliminate 270 positions and trim its flights by five per cent.

"We're entering a stage where environmental consciousness (about carbon-emitting airplanes) and high prices will deter air travel," says Mr. D'Cruz.

All this as another wave of airport expansion is under way.

"The difficulty is that the airlines are on a different time horizon than the airports," says Paul Dempsey, director of the Institute of Air and Space Law at McGill University.

"Airport infrastructure has to be planned and financed years ahead of time in order to meet the capacity demands of the future," he said. "The airlines are faced with immediate problems of profitability and for them, at the moment, this is not the time to expand. The difficulty is that building a terminal or building a runway or adding a runway requires a much longer time horizon."

This dichotomy between supply and demand is lost on some passengers. At the Winnipeg International Airport, for example, it was not entirely certain why a new terminal was being built in the first place.

"I'm through the airport about six times a year and it never seems to be busy compared to the Toronto airport," said Paul Hurley, a Toronto software sales executive. "I don't really see the demand for a new terminal."
But demand is indeed there, according to the airports, with record passenger levels being recorded across the country.

Daniel-Robert Gooch, the airports council's communications director, says passenger numbers have now "passed the pre-2001 level" and airports are well-positioned to handle the increase in traffic. "We knew this was coming, so airports had to invest in their infrastructure programs," he says, adding that between 1991 and 2006, passenger levels have risen by 50 per cent.

To fund these expansion projects, most airport operators have imposed fees on passengers and raised money in the bond markets -- this, says Mr. D'Cruz, with the "implicit guarantee" of governments because of the operators' status as privatized not-for-profit or "corporatized" entities. As a result, he says, they have "an excessive amount of debt" on their books.

"It's clear that the corporatization of the Canadian airports has led to an exorbitant amount of gold plating," says Mr. Dempsey. "They are increasingly beautiful, but they are increasingly expensive."

"Building beautiful terminal facilities with lots of stone and waterfalls may facilitate the pleasure of the experience of the people who walk through the airport, but it's a cost that has to be incurred ultimately by the airlines and their passengers."

Adds Mr. D'Cruz: "This is called the edifice complex."

The flip side, according to the airport council, is that airport authorities are much more than money collectors with big ambitions -- they also contribute to area economies, especially tourism, which is the main engine that is expected to power growth in the industry. The council says airports also give, not just take -- together paying nearly $300 million a year to the federal government in airport rent.

Here is a closer look at airport expansion across Canada:

Victoria

Victoria International Airport continues to report record numbers of travellers. The facility had new life breathed into it with a $30-million renovation and expansion completed in 2006. Last year, it handled 1.48 million passengers. According to estimates from the Victoria Airport Authority, that figure is expected to hit 1.8 million by 2015 and 2.3 million by 2025.

The recent expansion of departure and arrival terminals and facilities has accommodated the increased numbers, but the airport authority is already preparing for the next phase.

Along with an elongated runway, the authority projects $133 million in capital improvements before 2025, including improvements to the apron, lighting, vehicle access, parking and the addition of new gates and customs facilities.

Vancouver

The Vancouver International Airport spent $290 million in capital improvements last year -- part of a $1-billion-plus expansion campaign that has put the airport in a near-constant state of construction.

With the number of airport passengers expected to surge from 17.5 million last year to nearly 24 million by 2015, airport officials say they have to facilitate growth.

More than $800 million has been dedicated to three major projects -- a $420-million international terminal expansion, a $117-million Link Building connecting the domestic and international terminals and a $300-million Canada Line rapid-transit connection to downtown Vancouver.

The $200-million first phase of the international terminal expansion began in 2005 and was completed last year. The project added four new gates and facilities capable of handling the world's largest passenger aircraft -- the Airbus A380. It also created a water-themed retail and food and beverage area, featuring a 114,000-litre saltwater aquarium, a jellyfish tank and a stream running through the centre of the building.

The second phase of the international terminal expansion is expected to be completed between 2011 and 2014.

Calgary

Total air carrier passengers at the Calgary International Airport hit a record 12.26 million in 2007 -- or 33,500 passengers a day -- up 8.5 per cent from 2006, with a cumulative gain of 55 per cent over the past five years.

Growth in passenger traffic for 2008 is expected to be in the three- to five-per-cent range.

The longer-term outlook is expected to be at 30 million annual capacity by 2030, following a wave of expansions.

Over the next 10 years, an estimated $2.8 billion will be invested in expansion and development projects, including the development of a 4,267-metre parallel runway at an estimated cost of $500 million, a new international wing, estimated at $1.2 billion, and a new transborder/international concourse.

Edmonton

The Edmonton International Airport is launching a $1.1-billion expansion amid chronic labour shortages and rising construction costs.

The project includes construction of a new passenger concourse, adding 13 airplane gates to the current 17, a new control tower and offices, as well as more parking.

Regina

The booming Saskatchewan economy boosted passenger traffic at the Regina International Airport by 10.5 per cent in 2007 -- and by 32 per cent in the last three years. The airport is experiencing a five- to six-per-cent increase in passengers this year and expects to break the one-million-passenger barrier this year.

Over the next 20 years, $100 million will be spent on airport facilities improvements. The airport is projecting 1.5 million passengers by the year 2027, based on two-per-cent growth per year for the next 20 years.

Saskatoon

In Saskatoon, the airport authority says $70 million will be spent between 2009 and 2018 for new runway reconstruction, terminal renovations and other expansion projects.

By 2011, the Saskatoon Airport Authority expects the number of annual passengers to total 1.2 million -- up from 1.04 million in 2007.

Winnipeg

Winnipeg International Airport is in the midst of a $585-million terminal and site redevelopment project, which is expected to be completed by 2010.

Not only was expansion required for additional passenger traffic expected to hit four million by 2015, but the building infrastructure in the old terminal is in such a bad state of repair officials have said it would be completely inadequate by 2012.

Funded entirely through airport improvement fees -- that went up to a hefty $20 per flight at the beginning of 2008 -- the new 51,000-square-metre terminal will increase the number of airplane docking gates by two-thirds to 15.

Toronto

Canada's busiest airport Toronto Pearson International Airport has just completed a 10-year $4.4-billion rebuilding project. "Last year, 31.5 million passengers went through, now we have additional capacity for those seven million more," said Scott Armstrong, media and communications manager. While Mr. Armstrong said Pearson is ideally placed to compete for transit passengers with Chicago and the over-stretched New York airports, he said the airport authority is looking to other sources of revenue, not just passengers. The airport recently dropped its cargo fees by 25 per cent in the hope of attracting more cargo business.

Ottawa

The Ottawa International Airport saw passenger numbers increase to 4.09 million last year and it expects those numbers to rise to 4.5 million by 2010 and 5.9 million by 2020.

Its second phase of expansion will cost about $111 million, with a further phase planned sometime after 2017.

Krista Kealey, vice-president of communications at the Ottawa International Airport Authority, says the second phase is almost complete.

"The interior space has been opened, there is some work ongoing because we've just demolished the old terminal and so there's site preparation, and where the old terminal sat will be apron space, so aircraft will park there at new gates so that side of the building, the west side of the building, will open when all of that is finished," Ms. Kealey says.

Windsor

The Windsor Airport expects to increase its passenger totals from 245,000 in 2007 to 400,000 by 2018.

The $600,000 project will add a pre-boarding area that will including a café, business lounge and children's play area.

Montreal

Strong demand for air travel bolstered year-over-year traffic by 8.6 per cent, or around a million passengers, at Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport in 2007.

But higher ticket prices, raised to offset soaring jet fuel costs, are putting a damper on passenger traffic this year, with the airport recording four-per-cent growth for the first five months of 2008, said spokeswoman Christiane Beaulieu.

The airport invested $154.1 million in 2007, up from $83 million in 2006, and this year is expected to invest $275 million.

Halifax

Halifax Stanfield International Airport serves about 3.47 million air travellers annually -- with growth projected to reach 4.1 million passengers by 2012.

Since 1998, the airport has been undergoing a facelift and improving its facilities. The $95-million project has revamped the arrivals and departure halls, expanded the terminal building itself, constructed an observation deck overlooking the runways and expanded cargo handling capacity.

St. John's. N.L.

In Newfoundland and Labrador, the St. John's International Airport saw the number of passengers rise to 1.2 million in 2007. It projects 3.4 million passengers by 2015.

A five-year, $65-million capital spending program is set to begin in spring 2009. The plan calls for an expansion of the terminal building, as well as renovations to its operations buildings.

I agree with the bolded comments from the article above. I flew back from the states over the weekend and noticed how empty the Ottawa airport is compared to various US airports, (PHL, IAD). Personally I would rather have the $100 + in departure taxes I have paid over the past year and continue to use the old wing of the airport. A

Airport parking is one area that does need to be expanded, it was full on Saturday morning when I arrived for my flight, and I had to wait 20 minutes for someone to leave.

I have flown from both Syracuse and Burlington on occasion to save $ and have found I don't miss the cherry wood and waterfalls at all.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #395  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 4:12 PM
eemy's Avatar
eemy eemy is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
Thursday, August 07, 2008
I agree with the bolded comments from the article above. I flew back from the states over the weekend and noticed how empty the Ottawa airport is compared to various US airports, (PHL, IAD). Personally I would rather have the $100 + in departure taxes I have paid over the past year and continue to use the old wing of the airport. A

Airport parking is one area that does need to be expanded, it was full on Saturday morning when I arrived for my flight, and I had to wait 20 minutes for someone to leave.

I have flown from both Syracuse and Burlington on occasion to save $ and have found I don't miss the cherry wood and waterfalls at all.
The airport improvement fee is $15, not $100. Any additional fees go toward Nav Canada and other government agencies. The airport sees none of that money, and has no control over it.

Traffic may not have been overly busy this past weekend when your flight arrived; however, that is not to say it is not busy at other periods of time. I know better than to assume that just because driving on the 401 through Toronto on a Sunday evening is a breeze, the same will be true the next morning.

In this case, however, it is true that traffic demands didn't justify the second phase of expansion. It was, in fact, the ongoing operational costs of the old terminal that ended up justifying its replacement. They are, in effect, lowering the cost for the passenger by continuing the expansion as the cost associated with the debt and operations of the new wing were apparently less than the costs of maintaining the old terminal.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #396  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 5:56 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy_haak View Post
The airport improvement fee is $15, not $100. Any additional fees go toward Nav Canada and other government agencies. The airport sees none of that money, and has no control over it.

Traffic may not have been overly busy this past weekend when your flight arrived; however, that is not to say it is not busy at other periods of time. I know better than to assume that just because driving on the 401 through Toronto on a Sunday evening is a breeze, the same will be true the next morning.

In this case, however, it is true that traffic demands didn't justify the second phase of expansion. It was, in fact, the ongoing operational costs of the old terminal that ended up justifying its replacement. They are, in effect, lowering the cost for the passenger by continuing the expansion as the cost associated with the debt and operations of the new wing were apparently less than the costs of maintaining the old terminal.
No, I realize it is $15, I was thinking of total from the flights I have taken (paid for on my own dime) over the past year or so.

I have flown through Ottawa more than 20 times in the past 2 years and have never seen it anywhere near what I would describe as capacity. You make a good point about cost of the old terminal, but I still think they overbuilt a bit and could have shaved costs and kept the departure tax to a minimum. I think that would have been a great niche for YOW to attract lower cost airlines that will eventually expand to Canada.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #397  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 6:36 PM
YOWflier's Avatar
YOWflier YOWflier is offline
Melissa: fabulous.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: YOW/CYOW/CUUP
Posts: 3,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
I agree with the bolded comments from the article above.
The first statement pertains to Winnipeg Airport and is made by a traveler who obviously knows very little about the topic he is commenting on.

It is totally inappropriate to compare Winnipeg (3.5 mil pax per year) to Toronto (31.5 mil pax per year), Canada's only true fortress hub. EVERY other airport in Canada will pale in comparison to Toronto, including Vancouver and Montreal. That doesn't mean those communities don't have current and future needs to satisfy and plan for.

I remember reading a similar comment about Ottawa by some genius in the OBJ a while ago. Basically he was saying that Ottawa airport is always quiet thus the expansion totally unnecessary (I'm paraphrasing ... he was much more brutal than that). I wrote a scathing reply and sent it to the OBJ but I doubt anything happened with it.

Quote:
I flew back from the states over the weekend and noticed how empty the Ottawa airport is compared to various US airports, (PHL, IAD).
The comparison is invalid in the same way that comparing Winnipeg to Toronto is. Comparing a small O&D airport to a mega hub is apples and oranges. O&D airports have a few busy periods per day, whereas hub airports are busy all day.

Quote:
Personally I would rather have the $100 + in departure taxes I have paid over the past year and continue to use the old wing of the airport.
That's fair, but just be aware the old terminal building was condemned and had to be torn down. Furthermore, as Jeremy said it had become way too expensive to operate, thus the decision to accelerate Phase II expansion.

Quote:
I have flown from both Syracuse and Burlington on occasion to save $ and have found I don't miss the cherry wood and waterfalls at all.[/FONT]
I can blast away at this comment on a number of different fronts but I just don't have the energy. I'll just say that:

- There is a bit more to Ottawa's new terminal than cherry wood and waterfalls. Whether you agree with it or not, the airport expansion project was desperately needed to replace the bus station we used to pass off as an airport. Cherry wood and waterfalls aside, the terminal building and airfield infrastructure was hopelessly inadequate and needed improving to meet current and future needs.

- Somehow I doubt that it is Ottawa's $15 AIF that is the driving force behind your choice to travel from Syracuse and Burlington. It's probably more like a few hundred dollars in airfare savings, and we all know airports don't control airline fares (they can factor into it to varying degrees but ... ah never mind).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #398  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 6:59 PM
citizen j's Avatar
citizen j citizen j is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,029
^^The $15 improvement fee is at or below that charged by other large- and medium-sized airports in the country with the following exceptions:
Halifax $10
Saskatoon $10
Victoria $10

Also, Vancouver charges less ($5 instead of $15) if travel is within BC, and Toronto charges less for passengers who are connecting rather than originating at Pearson ($8 instead of $20).

You'll probably remember that the Ottawa airport authority lowered terminal fees (but not the improvement fee) by 5% on July 1st this year; your idea of attracting more business from the airlines was implicit in that move. And, they've managed to expand twice (phase one was under budget) without raising anyone's taxes. So, yes, it bothers me when I have to pay $15 extra to fly out of YOW or to pay $20 to Winnipeg's or Calgary's airport improvement fee when I don't actually live there, but that's the reality of flying these days. Could they be charging $10 instead of $15? Perhaps. Should we be demanding a stripped-down, bare-minimum facililty at YOW? Should we be asking for "just good enough" rather than "good"? That's a complicated discussion, but aspects of it recently surfaced in criticism of the Lebreton Flats collaboration between the NCC and Claridge. Unfortunately, I think the "just good enough" -- or "barely good enough" -- aesthetic has been institutionalized as the standard in Ottawa. I hope that changes.
__________________
The world is so full of a number of things
-- Robert Louis Stevenson

Last edited by citizen j; Aug 7, 2008 at 8:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #399  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 7:15 PM
p_xavier p_xavier is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
- There is a bit more to Ottawa's new terminal than cherry wood and waterfalls. Whether you agree with it or not, the airport expansion project was desperately needed to replace the bus station we used to pass off as an airport. Cherry wood and waterfalls aside, the terminal building and airfield infrastructure was hopelessly inadequate and needed improving to meet current and future needs.

- Somehow I doubt that it is Ottawa's $15 AIF that is the driving force behind your choice to travel from Syracuse and Burlington. It's probably more like a few hundred dollars in airfare savings, and we all know airports don't control airline fares (they can factor into it to varying degrees but ... ah never mind).
Exactly, if there's anything, the 15$ to actually spend QUALITY time in a place is money well spent. We're stuck about an hour at each airport, so it's money well invested. I'd rather see a waterfall and cherry wood than someone scratching his ass on a smelly bench.

The Canadian cheapo mentality needs to change, in a decade, former 3rd world countries will have better infrastructure then us.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #400  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 7:27 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
The first statement pertains to Winnipeg Airport and is made by a traveler who obviously knows very little about the topic he is commenting on.

It is totally inappropriate to compare Winnipeg (3.5 mil pax per year) to Toronto (31.5 mil pax per year), Canada's only true fortress hub. EVERY other airport in Canada will pale in comparison to Toronto, including Vancouver and Montreal. That doesn't mean those communities don't have current and future needs to satisfy and plan for.

I remember reading a similar comment about Ottawa by some genius in the OBJ a while ago. Basically he was saying that Ottawa airport is always quiet thus the expansion totally unnecessary (I'm paraphrasing ... he was much more brutal than that). I wrote a scathing reply and sent it to the OBJ but I doubt anything happened with it.

The comparison is invalid in the same way that comparing Winnipeg to Toronto is. Comparing a small O&D airport to a mega hub is apples and oranges. O&D airports have a few busy periods per day, whereas hub airports are busy all day.

That's fair, but just be aware the old terminal building was condemned and had to be torn down. Furthermore, as Jeremy said it had become way too expensive to operate, thus the decision to accelerate Phase II expansion.

I can blast away at this comment on a number of different fronts but I just don't have the energy. I'll just say that:

- There is a bit more to Ottawa's new terminal than cherry wood and waterfalls. Whether you agree with it or not, the airport expansion project was desperately needed to replace the bus station we used to pass off as an airport. Cherry wood and waterfalls aside, the terminal building and airfield infrastructure was hopelessly inadequate and needed improving to meet current and future needs.

- Somehow I doubt that it is Ottawa's $15 AIF that is the driving force behind your choice to travel from Syracuse and Burlington. It's probably more like a few hundred dollars in airfare savings, and we all know airports don't control airline fares (they can factor into it to varying degrees but ... ah never mind).
You make some good points but, I would argue the $15 dollars does make a bigger difference than you think, if the airport has competition. For exampe, Burlington has no airport departure tax and is far more "crowded" (maybe a better word than busy as they probably have half as many passengers) than Ottawa. Fares are lower there for many reasons some such as immigration fees and general US competition aren't relevant. But another big reason is that Jet Blue flies there thus lowering all fares from the city. Experience in Europe has shown that medium size airports that cut costs and lower fees attract low cost airlines and see phenomenal growth. Riga is probably the best example, with huge increases in tourism as a result. Sure not an entirely analogous situation and $5 either way might not make much difference, but the same could be said for income, corporate or sales tax rates.

Finally in the end it is always a choice made by people who spend many hours in the airport and don't pay the fee, while most of the rest of us actually do consider airports to be bus stations and are happy just to be on our way.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:10 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.