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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2005, 8:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbeiter
I used to go to Central Market on 38th all the time, but then it would get too crowded, so I went to the old Whole Foods. Now that the old WF is the new WF, and is much busier, I would probably revert back to the going to CM.
The first week the new WF was open, the crowds were overwhelming. I had to park several blocks away to reach it (security officers blocked entrances to the multi-level, underground parking garage, which was filled to capacity). Things will die down a bit, but the popularity will remain. Though I will say this, the parking options are better overall at Whole Foods than at that cramped parking lot where CM is located. Especially with the shopping cart-friendly escalators leading down to the grage levels.
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2005, 8:16 PM
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H-E-B Plus

H-E-B has been tinkering with the "H-E-B Plus" store format for awhile now. The first store was in the Valley, followed by Waco, then Austin.

The Plus stores continue to get bigger in order to compete with WalMart and Target, which are aggressivley going after H-E-B.

As far as the comment about building downtown stores not being H-E-B's "style", I say: never say never!

H-E-B has always been on the cutting edge of grocery retailing, and you can be sure they are looking very closely at the new Whole Foods.
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2005, 8:21 PM
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Re: H-E-B Plus

Quote:
Originally Posted by edirp
The Plus stores continue to get bigger in order to compete with WalMart and Target, which are aggressivley going after H-E-B.
.
They have to, or else get eaten away on all sides by the national giants. But if any local player can compete, HEB would be that one. My only concern is that HEB could potentially spread themselves too thin, by venturing too far from their traditional grocery focus. Can HEB truly compete at selling HDTV's, for instance? On the flip side, would HEB ever consider creating a stripped down 'neighborhood' grocery format, as Wal-Mart has done? I like that concept, to supplement the larger format stores.
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2005, 6:08 AM
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H-E-B

Profit margins on groceries are VERY low; this is one reason H-E-B is expanding their assortment of non-food merchandise--for the higher margins.

H-E-B did the smaller store format a few years back called "H-E-B Pantry Foods", primarily in the Houston area. They have since abandoned that in favor of the superstore concept.

The H-E-B in The Woodlands, which opened last summer, is a hybrid of Central Market and a traditional H-E-B superstore.
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2005, 1:32 PM
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Re: H-E-B

Quote:
Originally Posted by edirp
Profit margins on groceries are VERY low; this is one reason H-E-B is expanding their assortment of non-food merchandise--for the higher margins.

H-E-B did the smaller store format a few years back called "H-E-B Pantry Foods", primarily in the Houston area. They have since abandoned that in favor of the superstore concept.
Good point...it does make sense to branch out into the superstore format, but I would hope they could carve a niche that would separate it from the Wal-Marts. Target has done this to an extent, with a more upscale assortment of merchandise.

I completely forgot about the Pantry Foods format. It appeared to me that HEB used this as a means of getting their foot in the door into the Houston and SE Texas (and SW Louisiana) markets, though I could be wrong. I still like the idea of this concept, perhaps with a more urban design and product selection.
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2005, 3:03 PM
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Many HEB's are a hybrid of Central Market and a regular HEB these days. The Hancock Center HEB in Austin was probably the first - their organic/natural section takes up a good chunk of real estate in the building.
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2005, 3:11 PM
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H-E-B's hybrid store

Here's a short bit on the store in The Woodlands:


July 21, 2004
H-E-B to open new concept store in The Woodlands

H-E-B is gearing up to open a store in The Woodlands that combines the company's food and drug stores with some of the most popular features of its high-end Central Market concept.

H-E-B Woodlands Market will open July 28 at 6565 Six Pines Dr.

The store will feature the Central Market Café on the Run and an assortment of Central Market specialty items, while also carrying national grocery brands as well as H-E-B's own brands.

H-E-B Woodlands Market will carry one of the largest seafood departments in the Houston area, an expanded cheese department with 40 of Central Market's top picks and a full-time cheese specialist.

The store will also feature more than 2,000 varieties of wine with professional wine stewards and an expanded produce section carrying more than 900 kinds of fruits and vegetables.

Catering from Central Market will also be available at the new store.

San Antonio-based H-E-B currently operates more than 300 stores in Texas and Northern Mexico.
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2005, 3:54 PM
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What sucks and what's funny is that HEB's HQ downtown is in some little office building in Southtown.

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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2005, 3:16 AM
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HEB Plus! will not take anything away from Grocery....we will be adding a bigger GM section...or store, rather.

Wal-Mart is giving us a run for our money because they have what we don't....a 60 K to 70 K square foot emphasis on General Merchandise. HEB has what Wal-Mart has tried to venture into and sucks at....a 60 K - 90 K square foot grocery store.

HEB Plus! will be a complete HEB grocery store, plus a complete General Merchandise store into one 160,000 square foot store.

Round Rock HEB Plus! will replace the orginal RR store.

As for Mc Creless Mall, HEB has bought the property, but because of a legal obligation to move the current tennants to a new location, this store will not be built until 2006. The South San Antonio store that will open in Nov. 2005 will be at Zarzamora and SW Military Hwy.
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2005, 3:21 AM
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Actually SayTownboy...


HEB's HQ is in the King William Historic District and is a massive complex where the old Army Arsenal used to be. It's like a fort still to get in there.

It's a beautiful campus and although it is the HQ, each city in Texas has a regional HEB office and training center.
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  #31  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2005, 4:47 AM
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Lol, this has become the official HEB thread..

in any case, I am not a fan of central market. I *love* their wines and food selection.. but its like I have to make a special stop to get that stuff then go to a normal store to get my other foods. Thats why Im a fan of Hancock center and Whole Foods..

As far as the HEB plus stores.. I doubt I will ever use them, but then again, I never use Target or Walmart.. so I guess Im the exception to the rule in general. I just prefer to go to a specialty store for different items.
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2005, 10:16 AM
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Do you know what type of HEB the McCreless Mall location will be.

Will it be a Plus or a regular HEB, and if so, how big?
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2005, 4:11 PM
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The Sorta Austin Grocery Store Thread.
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2005, 5:22 PM
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LOL....

Well, H-E-B *is* a part of Texas culture!

:o)
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2005, 12:41 AM
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UPDATE ON 680 FOOT TOWER

There is an update on the 680 footer planned for downtown Austin. Looks to be more and more of a reality. Here is an article which appears in this morning's Austin American STatesman... Forum Member Kevin-FromTexas contributed to this story.. he was mentioned as an editor for Skyscrapers.com (Congrats Kevin!). The article focuses on the dynamics involved in our market which are resulting in taller and denser developments downtown. Very interesting reading.

Looks like the tower is within a year of breaking ground. And will be complete sometime in 2008. NO RENDERINGS JUST YET!

------------------------

http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/metro/stories/03/20skyscrapers.html









How high is too high?
Soaring project could pave way for denser downtown


By Asher Price, Shonda Novak
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Sunday, March 20, 2005

The corner slated for Austin's tallest skyscraper has been touted by its developer as the intersection of Main and Main. The new tower would stand 41 stories tall on Congress Avenue between Fifth and Sixth streets and promises three levels of stores, a 10-story luxury hotel and 350 condominiums and apartments, the sorts of numbers that make sprawl-weary city planners swoon.

The new project, which will be the tallest building downtown, highlights questions about just how much sky Austin wants its buildings to scrape. Moreover, it underscores the complexities of the city's struggle to move from a sprawling horizontal city to a vertical one.

On the one hand, the mayor, city planners and the entire region — through Envision Central Texas, a comprehensive planning group — have called for increased density downtown.

"Height only matters because it accomplishes density," said developer Tom Stacy, who hopes to break ground on his 41-story tower early next year.

On the other, the realities of market demand, laws protecting views of the Capitol and city regulations regarding the height of buildings have combined to discourage such high-rises.

Stacy's project is not the first to test city restric- tions that effectively limit a building's height. For example, a special modification to the city's zoning regulation was needed for the 33-story Frost Bank Tower, currently the city's tallest building.

Stacy's tower, which could rise to 680 feet and be completed in late 2008, would be the 19th tallest building in Texas, the tallest in the state outside of Houston and Dallas, and the tallest to break ground in Texas since 1987.

Along with more modest projects announced for other parts of downtown, it reinforces the sort of commitment to height, and infill, in downtown Austin about which city planners rhapsodize.

"You can't have a vibrant city without density," said Bill Hudnut, a senior fellow at the Washington-based city planning think-tank Urban Land Institute. "If you can shoot a shotgun through the city and not hit anyone, it doesn't have it."

But regulations revolving around the history of the city and views of the Capitol, as well as market demand, have kept Austin buildings largely squat. Although there's no specific height limit, downtown's floor-to-area ratio is capped at 8:1 — eight floors for a block-size building — establishing a hurdle for developers wishing to build high.

"The (ratio) acts as a de facto height limitation," said Greg Guernsey, a development services manager for the city.

Other city officials say the more pressing problem is the lack of a minimum ratio, a standard that would encourage height and density.

After the construction of the downtown post office, a single-story building taking up less than a quarter of its site in the heart of downtown, the city's design commission recommended a 3:1 minimum ratio. But the minimum was never implemented because of fears it would curtail parking on smaller downtown projects.

Developers also have to cope with the Capitol view corridors, legislated by the state and city, which prevent the construction of buildings that would obscure views of the dome from certain locations.

It's a tricky balance. The city's design commission tried unsuccessfully to finesse a new ratio several years ago when it proposed new guidelines increasing the area ratio for 'desired projects' as long as they didn't obscure the Capitol view.

Stacy, whose project will have to clear both the ratio and Capitol view hurdles, said he thinks the old model is outdated, as city planners shift their thinking to encourage density.

"Even in the '70s, buildings were built taller than the Capitol," Stacy said. "It's not that we don't want buildings taller than the Capitol."

Michael Knox, a principal planner for the city who works on downtown projects, said that only since 2000 have developers begun to ask for exceptions to the floor-to-area ratio.

"It's probably more economics, market demand, that has kept the buildings smaller," Knox said. "To build a 1 million-square-foot building in downtown doesn't make much sense. We don't have the market demand."

Density might be an urban planning ideal, but development seems likely to follow the market, and that could still mean building in rapidly growing outlying communities such as Dripping Springs.

And for those developers willing to build downtown, it's not necessarily cheaper to go big: Building tall might not be like buying in bulk, architects and city planners warn.

"The higher they are, the less efficient they become." architect Juan Cotera said. "The higher you go, more of a core of a building is filled with stairs and elevators. You need more pumping to get water up."

"It wouldn't be cost-efficient per floor if you have one or two offices around an elevator," Guernsey said.

But in each subsequent wave of growth, land values and demand, increase, justifying larger projects to help amortize the cost of the land, Knox said. And, he said, "we're now seeing the next wave."

The city may have to encourage height whenever it gets the chance.

"Downtown Austin is fairly limited by the lake, the interstate and the Capitol view corridors," Knox said. "We only have a limited number of opportunities to get a significant density."

Denser downtowns are more cost-effective for the cities administering them, say city officials and developers. Mayor Will Wynn said only 20 percent of every city dollar produced downtown goes back to downtown services such as roads and sewers.

"Downtown property taxpayers export a lot of money into our general fund that we then spend in other parts of the city."

Density also helps preserve open land outside town.

"There are literally surface parking lots, derelict single-story buildings, at a time we're trying to relieve development pressure off those outlying areas," Wynn said. "Environmentally sensitive lands, the rural heritage of Williamson County, the agricultural heritage of Bastrop County — if you want to try to protect some of that, then the required complement is much more dense, much more vibrant, mixed-use urban cores."

One measure of density is population. The city's downtown commission is considering a rough goal of 10,000 residents: enough to attract businesses that rely on a captive residential market, such as grocery stores.

The city estimates downtown's population at about 5,300 people sprinkled among 2,900 housing units. As recently completed projects fill up, those numbers could rise to 5,900 residents and 3,200 units. In addition to advancing the goal of density, tall, visible buildings tend to be a way — other than major civic projects such as a new federal courthouse headed for Austin or last year's City Hall — for a city to make its architectural mark.

"Designwise, it tends to lure big-name architects; since the building will be taller, it will have a higher profile and be more visible from a further distance," said Kevin Lehnhardt, an editor at skyscrapers.com , a commercial site that tracks large-scale real estate development around the globe.
"Skyscrapers are not just a place to put people and offices; they're a product to be sold. Developers spend a lot of money and time planning for them, so a striking, attention-grabbing design is key to fill the space and pay the bills. And big-name architects come with the prestige of a building, which also becomes a selling point."
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Last edited by Mopacs; Mar 21, 2005 at 1:20 PM.
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2005, 1:39 AM
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Maybe next time, the newspaper will get the correct diagram silhouette of the BofA in Dallas.

When posting articles, please post the source link also. Thanks.
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2005, 7:33 AM
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Mc Creless will be a plus store format...the biggest version of the plus format....160K sq ft
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  #38  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2005, 1:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTroyMathis
Maybe next time, the newspaper will get the correct diagram silhouette of the BofA in Dallas.

When posting articles, please post the source link also. Thanks.
Done...

Yeah I noticed the BoA representation on Dallas, just a 'tad' bit off.

FYI.. the graphics that are posted above were included alongside the article in the paper... some very interesting angles of downtown too.
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  #39  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2005, 4:28 PM
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It's the Bank One Tower labeled as BoA. Yea as soon as I read this I couldn't believe that Kevin was quoted. He and I went to SA the day before Spring break and he had mentioned something about someone from Austin American contacting him. I bet he is on cloud nine. I didn't care for the title of the article "How high is too high" but overall it was a nice update. I'm not so sure about a 680 footer right now but I would love it if Stacy could get a 600 footer up. Sounds like it could be great.
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  #40  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2005, 4:51 PM
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Go Kevin!
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