How would you compare US cities' recovery from COVID vs. Great Recession?

[photoLith]

I didnt live in Pittsburgh until 2013 so I dont know how it differed from 2008. However, downtown is still pretty dead 3 years after the government lockdowns. My gf works downtown and she says its only about 1/2 full of workers during the day if that. I go downtown sometimes on the weekends and it is noticeably less busy than pre lockdowns with way more homeless and scuzzy people everywhere. Hopefully it gets better. I think the only way for downtown Pittsburgh to feel lively like before is if they would convert the unused office space into apartments or condos.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

now thats what i’m talking about.

we had the crazy popular savannah bananas in staten this weekend at the ballpark. sold out and they said 50k on a waiting list for tix. lots of kids around in bananas merch. and another big family friendly 50th anniversay of hiphop event we went to at stapleton waterfront w/graffiti, merch, food, rap battles & of course ringled by a wu tanger — raekwon. so all regular degular here. ces’t normal.

Speaking of bananas, if you want your fruits and vegetables, they are selling them on the Cross-Bronx highway. On the highway itself and you'll have plenty of time to purchase them from Juanita and Juan because traffic is moving at a cool and collective 0 mph. Safety first for highway retailers. People bitch about moving 5 mph, hell... 5 mph, who the hell is they! I wish it was 5 mph... entitled folks, that's all. Shit... if we can go above 2 mph, in the wise words of Governor Hochul, "Moving NY Forward". Well, moving forward until the box truck blocks the highway, and than its another 4 hours until the promise land (past the GWB into Jersey).

Originally Posted by iheartthed

There were so many people at the one in Brooklyn last Saturday. But apparently more celebs showed up to the one in Queens the next day, so Brooklyn's show was pretty disappointing.

Just wait until the Peso Pluma concert, when that comes to Brooklyn, whole borough will be jammed. Quite frankly, I prefer Ice Spice. Not the weed strain but the rapper. Probably why box trucks crash on the cross-bronx, because they watching the music videos.


@EastSideHBG

Yup.. seems about right. A bunch of wack packers building the roads. Milking the clock has become an art form, something that unionized labor has mastered.

[Obadno]

Phoenix was hit much harder from 08 than covid. And now it's getting hit hard by inflation, locally inflation was 11% at its peak, highest in the country. Gas was up from $2.50 to upwards of $6 dollars at its worst.

[Comrade]

The government's response to COVID is how they should have responded to the great recession. We really kneecapped our potential by watering down any effective aid to states/cities and it made growth remarkably weak for about six or seven years coming out of the pits of that economic hell.

We've bounced back a lot faster than similar countries and certainly faster than we did out of the great recession. Of course, the issues facing that recession and today's economic climate are much different, so, I am not sure it's fair to compare the two - beyond the response we saw and how it was maybe not nearly as effective in 2009 as it could have been.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Comrade

The government's response to COVID is how they should have responded to the great recession. We really kneecapped our potential by watering down any effective aid to states/cities and it made growth remarkably week for about six or seven years coming out of the pits of that economic hell.

We've bounced back a lot faster than similar countries and certainly faster than we did out of the great recession. Of course, the issues facing that recession and today's economic climate are much different, so, I am not sure it's fair to compare the two - beyond the response we saw and how it was maybe not nearly as effective in 2009 as it could have been.

Much of the COVID response was influenced by the missteps taken during the Financial Crisis.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Much of the COVID response was influenced by the missteps taken during the Financial Crisis.

Right. Most economists agree that we screwed up in the last recession. Obama's recovery plan was far too timid and the recovery was slow and weak.

But remember the context. The GOP had Congress and watered the rescue plan down. Obama had a much more ambitious rescue plan but did what he could. Perhaps this time the rescue plan was too strong, but it erred on the side of caution, and worked. And the GOP is now populist, not conservative, so they generally loved it too.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Right. Most economists agree that we screwed up in the last recession. Obama's recovery plan was far too timid and the recovery was slow and weak.

But remember the context. The GOP had Congress and watered the rescue plan down. Obama had a much more ambitious rescue plan but did what he could. Perhaps this time the rescue plan was too strong, but it erred on the side of caution, and worked. And the GOP is now populist, not conservative, so they generally loved it too.

Well the Bush administration architected TARP, which saved banks and other financial institutions, but they did not create a program for directly helping ordinary people who lost their jobs and/or homes. That's the part that got corrected in 2020. FWIW, I also don't think Obama put much focus on that part of the problem either. The Democrats completely controlled Congress and the White House from 2009 - 2011, so they could have done more.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Comrade

The government's response to COVID is how they should have responded to the great recession. We really kneecapped our potential by watering down any effective aid to states/cities and it made growth remarkably week for about six or seven years coming out of the pits of that economic hell.

We've bounced back a lot faster than similar countries and certainly faster than we did out of the great recession. Of course, the issues facing that recession and today's economic climate are much different, so, I am not sure it's fair to compare the two - beyond the response we saw and how it was maybe not nearly as effective in 2009 as it could have been.

The response to 08 was the most massive since the 1930's including direct payments to the populations, massive loans, the semi nationalizing of GM and banks, the consolidation of banks, TARP, Quantitate Easing, lowest interest rates in history etc etc. The Federal government has taken unprecedented direct influence into the financial system. It wasn't a passed law like Glass-Steagell (Dodd-Frank is a poor substitute) Because the federal Bureaucracy since the end of WW2 has powers to act without such congressional requirements for good and ill.

The only reason why we didn't have food lines as long as the 1930's was due to the social safety net built at that time and the fact that EBT had been moved to a digital card service instead of needing to go to a location to get Gov Cheese. I saw an article that visualized the people collecting assistance on EBT back in 2010 or so and if you had to actually go to a Wal Mart to retrieve your "stamps" like in the old days each Walmart in the country would have had a mile long line every month.

I think many people fail to realize how severe 2008 really was, which is a good thing because it means the social safety net actually helps.

It's a double-edged sword because the safety net treats the symptoms well but also takes pressure off of solving the root problems.

[mrnyc]

goodbye gump’s?


166-year-old luxury retailer in San Francisco warns: This could be our last year

By Samantha Delouya and Alexandra Coenjaerts, CNN
Updated 11:43 AM EDT, Wed August 16, 2023


Los Angeles
CNN
—
John Chachas, the owner of luxury department store Gump’s San Francisco, wrote an open letter to Governor Newsom, Mayor London Breed, and the city’s Board of Supervisors, pleading for them to act on what he describes as the city’s worsening downtown conditions.

“Today, as we prepare for our 166th holiday season at 250 Post Street, we fear this may be our last,” Chachas wrote in an open letter, published as a paid ad in the Sunday edition of the San Francisco Chronicle.

Gump’s, which sells luxury furnishings and jewelry, was acquired by Chachas after the retailer filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2018. The high-end retailer, founded in San Francisco in 1861 and born out of the famed California gold rush, has only one physical location, which is one block from the city’s Union Square.


more:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/15/busin...sco/index.html

[Crawford]

I don't know anything about Gump's, but furnishings and jewelry have been going gangbusters, so if they're having issues in those categories, it has to be more than some stinky bums.

[homebucket]

I'm born/raised in SF and have never heard of Gump's in my life (which may be part of the reason why it's closing). I've walked past this location hundreds of times and never even noticed it. The only Gump in town I know is Bubba Gump Shrimp Co.

Looking it up, it seems to be some sort of small boutique, gift shop of sorts with people mainly buying unique Christmas ornaments or other random decorations and home goods. Looks like it actually closed 4-5 years ago (retail has been on the decline for some time now even pre-Covid) and then re-opened 3 years ago. Given what they sell (everything in the store looks dated like it caters to old white boomers), it's not a surprise they're struggling.

[homebucket]

Lmao looks like I was right.

Has anyone else heard of those other stores too? George Watts, Hall’s Plaza, Michael C. Fina?

Can Gump’s Make a Comeback?
As the luxury retailer searches for a buyer, industry members discuss its role in the retail landscape
Allison Zisko//Editor in Chief//August 9, 2018

SAN FRANCISCO—News of Gump’s downfall saddened but did not surprise tabletop and giftware veterans who view the luxury department store’s potential closure as one more example of a retailer unable to adapt to changing consumer shopping behavior.

The 157-year-old department store filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection late last week and is looking for a buyer. The company reported $9.8 million in assets and $23.7 million in liabilities on its bankruptcy filing, a copy of which was obtained by HFN. It operates one store and a mail-order business.

In a statement, Gump’s said it has been navigating “the overwhelmingly difficult retail environment that has affected many retailers.”

It established Gump’s By Mail to compete in the direct sale market and carry on its historic catalog business, and said it has tried several strategic plans in recent years to raise capital and adapt its brand to better meet the needs and desires of its market.

The Gump’s store is an institution beloved of generations of San Franciscans, and customers around the country are captivated by its distinctive, elegant products from around the world,” said Chief Operating Officer Tony Lopez. “We will continue to seek a source of capital to enable this storied brand to continue to serve its devoted customers.”

...

Gump’s set trends for so long, said Livia Cowan, president of Mariposa. Gump’s put Mariposa on the map 30 years ago when it featured the company’s recycled glassware in its front window, long before recycled glass was hip. “I will always love them for that,” Cowan said.

“I’ve always had admiration for the brand name,” she added. “It’s heartbreaking.”

She also said, however, that the store did not advance with the times and has failed to resonate with Millennial shoppers.

“It was a beautiful edifice, but unfortunately more a model to the past than the future,” said Tim DeVine, of DeVine Corporation, distributor of premium tabletop brands such as Raynaud, Anna Weatherly and Royal Crown Derby. “They were one of the last holdouts of the grand old retailers of high-end tabletop, joining George Watts, Hall’s Plaza, [Michael C.] Fina on the dust heap,” said “Too bad, but not really surprising. They have struggled for years.”

https://www.hfndigital.com/industry-...make-comeback/

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Lmao looks like I was right.

Has anyone else heard of those other stores too? George Watts, Hall’s Plaza, Michael C. Fina?



https://www.hfndigital.com/industry-...make-comeback/

it didnt close back then — as it sez above that chakas guy bought it out. also 5yrs ago is too long to say it was riding on fumes.

maybe amazon killed it tho who knows, but its by far the oldest store so thats something. i mean would you just shrug it off if tadich grill or tosca or clam house or similar closed too?

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

it didnt close back then — as it sez above that chakas guy bought it out. also 5yrs ago is too long to say it was riding on fumes.

maybe amazon killed it tho who knows, but its by far the oldest store so thats something. i mean would you just shrug it off if tadich grill or tosca or clam house or similar closed too?

It did close for a bit. They only bought the naming rights and trademarks, none of the actual inventory. I highly doubt it’s the same as it was before. And being the oldest doesn’t mean anything if it fails to stay relevant.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by homebucket

I'm born/raised in SF and have never heard of Gump's in my life (which may be part of the reason why it's closing). I've walked past this location hundreds of times and never even noticed it. The only Gump in town I know is Bubba Gump Shrimp Co.

Looking it up, it seems to be some sort of small boutique, gift shop of sorts with people mainly buying unique Christmas ornaments or other random decorations and home goods. Looks like it actually closed 4-5 years ago (retail has been on the decline for some time now even pre-Covid) and then re-opened 3 years ago. Given what they sell (everything in the store looks dated like it caters to old white boomers), it's not a surprise they're struggling.

Gump's reputation was nation-wide sixty or seventy years ago. The core demographic was wealthy white ladies mostly born in the first quarter of the 20th Century. If you wanted to furnish your home with fabulous table top items (think sterling silver, bone china, and crystal), Gump's was the place to go. Probably half it's clientele consisted of people from out of town, and it was a go-to stop for many visitors to SF in mid Century America. Gump's had a huge wedding trade with a very popular and profitable gift registry. I think Boomer women, who were often working and interested in a simpler lifestyle at home, mostly failed to be as captivated by Gump's as their mothers were, and the store has been on a long slide into irrelevance in the past 30 or 40 years.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Has anyone else heard of those other stores too? George Watts, Hall’s Plaza, Michael C. Fina?

I'm going to assume you are too young to have watched The Price is Right in the 90s or at least when Bob Barker was still the host.

[Crawford]

I think Michael C Fina had some big store on Fifth Avenue until maybe 10-15 years ago? I vaguely remember a store of that name, and it sounded very similar to Gump's.

I guess this is some upscale WASP old lady stuff that just didn't translate to the following generations?

[TWAK]

Not much changed up here for COVID thanks to the tiered policies related to the amount of cases that each county in California had. That's why I was eating indoors while everybody else was stuck in the house.
As far as the Great Recession, it butchered the county and the impacts are still present.

[Scaevola]

I just learned I walk past Gumps every day on my way home from work and never noticed. They really need better signage and street presence.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by homebucket

It did close for a bit. They only bought the naming rights and trademarks, none of the actual inventory. I highly doubt it’s the same as it was before. And being the oldest doesn’t mean anything if it fails to stay relevant.

o rilly? i thought you didnt even know it was there? so now you do know it well? well, so much for tradition. i’m sure those old restaurants are also on their xillionth owners.

and speaking of relevant, here is one of those sf bros who moved out

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CtFj3...RlODBiNWFlZA==