Coronavirus - Phoenix discussion

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

And restaurants are still doing take out and delivery

[HX_Guy]

Good summary of Essential Activities, Businesses and Functions. It was not initially clear to me that this meant all non-essential businesses must close their workplaces effective 5PM March 31st, the Order certainly doesn't spell it out the way this website does. Also was not aware that there are potential criminal penalties.

https://www.fisherphillips.com/resou...HfmbNXThP1PcuQ

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Good summary of Essential Activities, Businesses and Functions. It was not initially clear to me that this meant all non-essential businesses must close their workplaces effective 5PM March 31st, the Order certainly doesn't spell it out the way this website does. Also was not aware that there are potential criminal penalties.

https://www.fisherphillips.com/resou...HfmbNXThP1PcuQ

For the sake of this forum, I believe construction will still go on? It says infrastructure so I believe so?????

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan

For the sake of this forum, I believe construction will still go on? It says infrastructure so I believe so?????

Yes, here is the Official Order with complete details of Essential Businesses, Activities and functions.

https://azgovernor.gov/sites/default.../eo_2021_0.pdf

Regarding the official Stay Home Order, it specifically says “All persons may leave their place of residence only for Essential Activities, or to participle in or fulfill Essential Functions as outlined in EO 2020-12"

So you’re not supposed to leave your house unless it’s for an Essential Activity.

https://www.azdhs.gov/documents/prep...-connected.pdf

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Yes, here is the Official Order with complete details of Essential Businesses, Activities and functions.

https://azgovernor.gov/sites/default.../eo_2021_0.pdf

Regarding the official Stay Home Order, it specifically says “All persons may leave their place of residence only for Essential Activities, or to participle in or fulfill Essential Functions as outlined in EO 2020-12"

So you’re not supposed to leave your house unless it’s for an Essential Activity.

https://www.azdhs.gov/documents/prep...-connected.pdf

And essential activities could be argued to be almost anything based on the existing list

[RichTempe]

Originally Posted by Obadno

And essential activities could be argued to be almost anything based on the existing list

Exactly. Not sure what this order actually changes from what was already in place Seems more like a strongly worded letter rather than an actual order since there aren't really any teeth to it. I know there are 'potential' penalties, but in the order it specifically says:

"No person shall be required to provide documentation or proof of their activities to justify their activities under this order."

So basically you can still do the same things you did before the order.

[biggus diggus]

I think if you're out driving to a friend's house and you were pulled over you'd have to think of a quick lie, if you're okay with lying that is. I'd like to see something a little more black/white here but I get it, Doucey is pandering to corporate.

[fawd]

Ducey really isn't reinventing the wheel here... He's doing the exact same thing that worse off states have done, when they were at Arizona's current level of cases.


Simply a steady ramp up.... Probably wouldn't be in everyone's best interests to jump from 'business as usual' to something akin to 'martial law' all in one go. Steady as she goes.

[biggus diggus]

Never said he's doing something no one else has done, just seems like he has a lot of business owners in his ear and he's listening to them more than the general public. Serving his second term so who cares if he makes everyone upset.

[fawd]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Never said he's doing something no one else has done, just seems like he has a lot of business owners in his ear and he's listening to them more than the general public. Serving his second term so who cares if he makes everyone upset.

Probably true. Don't know the guy obviously - but met Ducey once when he was CEO of Cold Stone & have sat next to him at a few ballgames since he became governor. So have had a few extended conversations.

He's unique in that he always strikes me as a relatively down-to-earth guy that isn't in a political box off in la-la-land. McCain, Brewer, Flake always had this aura around them that made them borderline unapproachable.


I'd like to think that helps Ducey's decision making on this type of thing - but who knows.

[RichTempe]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I think if you're out driving to a friend's house and you were pulled over you'd have to think of a quick lie, if you're okay with lying that is. I'd like to see something a little more black/white here but I get it, Doucey is pandering to corporate.

You can't be pulled over for just driving around, at least not with this order, so unless you're speeding or doing something else that warrants a stop, no one is going to need to make up an excuse/lie. With the governor leaving golf courses open and encouraging people to go out and exercise and hike or cycle, there's every reason to believe that, in some people's minds, it's perfectly okay to go over to your friend's house and meet for one of those things. And really, since the liquor stores are open, are you actually expected to drink alone

My main point was that most people are already doing what this order asks, but for the people who aren't, it doesn't really give them any reason to stop. Nor does it curtail the number of places where people can still interact. The "Guidelines" became an "Order", but with no real authority to enforce it, it's still pretty much voluntary.

I agree with you that it would be nice to have something more black/white. He needs to take to decisive action one way or the other and stop this half-assed, wishy-washy stuff. I just think he's trying to look tougher, without in fact really getting tougher. I'm sure this pleases corporate and infuriates those want a shelter in place, but in terms of changing people's behavior to any significant degree, I don't think it accomplishes that. Time will tell I guess.

[fawd]

Yeah - they aren't even pulling people over here in SoCal. HOWEVER - they ARE ticketing people in certain public areas such as the boardwalks, beaches etc.


Even if your walking your surfboard across the sand to the water - they'll get ya' with a ticket.

[biggus diggus]

I know you cannot be pulled over for just driving around, but you can be pulled over for speeding and have to think of a reason why you're out.

Tonight and tomorrow morning will be the telling moment, I think. I've been in the office every day and plan to keep coming to the office every day - I have a business to run - so I feel like if there's a noticeable difference in traffic that will be a good sign. I bet there's no change. Yesterday I rode the mountain bike for a couple of hours and most people seem to be cognizant of those around them and are trying to create distance, kind of hard on some trails, though.

[gymratmanaz]

Will Tempe Town Lake be open and OK?

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz

Will Tempe Town Lake be open and OK?

Still open according to the city’s website: https://www.tempe.gov/government/com...empe-town-lake

I wouldn’t be surprised if the marina and boat rental concession were closed, but there’s no practical way to close the paths around the lake, and those offer plenty of opportunity for walking, running, and bicycling with suitable distance from one person to another.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Still open according to the city’s website: https://www.tempe.gov/government/com...empe-town-lake

I wouldn’t be surprised if the marina and boat rental concession were closed, but there’s no practical way to close the paths around the lake, and those offer plenty of opportunity for walking, running, and bicycling with suitable distance from one person to another.

I still dont understand why they closed skiing. That is an activity in which its easy to be socially distanced. and everyone is covered with gloves and masks

[xymox]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I know you cannot be pulled over for just driving around, but you can be pulled over for speeding and have to think of a reason why you're out.

No - you won't.

The order specifically says that you are not expected to give anyone a reason as to why you are out of your house.

The idea that the police have anything to enforce here is silly.

We won't even approach martial law - there's no legal or constitutional basis for such a thing in our situation. The president may only declare it with congressional approval for two reasons: rebellion and invasion.

If they had a legal basis to do this - they would have federally locked down the NYC area this weekend.

It boggles the mind why so many people jump to wanting to be controlled like that by the federal gov't. Have you read about how it would actually work? Its not something I would hope to ever see this country fall into because we won't emerge out of it the same.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Even though I’m trying to stay away from my parents house because my dads immune system is compromised, I can’t see them saying you can’t go to a family members house.

[exit2lef]

Since I can't do anything about the larger issue of the pandemic (other than complying with the directive to stay at home as much as possible), I'm going to vent about two minor annoyances sort of linked to it:

1) I keep reading national media coverage suggesting that Arizona is highly vulnerable because it has a lot of "old people." I wish some of these reporters would actually take a look at age statistics before repeating that stereotype. Arizona has some high-profile retirement communities, but its median age is just about in line with the national figure. Many states in the Northeast and Midwest have older populations.

2) There is someone in my neighborhood with a long history of letting her dog run free instead of walking it with a leash. I've encountered her furry friend two days in a row on evening walks, and she never makes any effort to control her dog or even apologize for the way in which the dog runs towards people, including small children who might understandably be scared by it. I decided to report her to Maricopa County Animal Control, but their website says that due to the pandemic they are only handling urgent cases in which an animal is actually harming a person. I wouldn't be surprised if this bad neighbor realizes there is now lax enforcement and has gone back to her old habits. She has controlled her dog intermittently at times in the past, maybe in response to complaints, but not now.

End of get-off-my-lawn rant. Thanks for reading.

[biggus diggus]

Being required to provide proof is different from asking "what are you doing" and self incriminate. There absolutely is precedence, though the police are not focusing on it. I'm California, Illinois, and New York people have been cited for ignoring the stay at home order. My guess is that here will be different but to write it off as impossible is a little stubborn in my mind.