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  #1  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 4:07 PM
drpgq drpgq is offline
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Originally Posted by Djeffery View Post
Yes, for sure, if he has an equity stake in the building he will have a say in operations and a share of revenue. Maybe it's a longer play in hopes of growing the team and selling it off. Rumours have gone around in recent years of various people trying to buy the London Knights, and the price mentioned has been in the $15-20 million range. No idea how true those reports are. But I can only imagine what that number would be if it also came with a third or a quarter share in Budweiser Gardens.
The London Knights are a way more successful and storied OHL franchise than the Bulldogs are though.
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  #2  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 7:47 PM
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The London Knights are a way more successful and storied OHL franchise than the Bulldogs are though.
Definitely, but they also sucked huge when the Hunters bought them. OHL team values have gone up a lot the last while. If Andlauer can make the Bulldogs an perennial contender that gets solid support from Hamilton hockey fans, and he also owns a stake in the arena, the team will be worth quite a bit more than what he paid.
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  #3  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 3:19 AM
GreatTallNorth2 GreatTallNorth2 is offline
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No idea how true those reports are. But I can only imagine what that number would be if it also came with a third or a quarter share in Budweiser Gardens.
Budweiser Gardens is owned by the city, not the Hunters or the arena management group.
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  #4  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 3:52 AM
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Budweiser Gardens is owned by the city, not the Hunters or the arena management group.
I didn't say otherwise. I was speculating on OHL team value and how much more the Knights would be worth if the Hunters owned a share in the arena (and of course, sold that share with the team) as a comparison to why Andlauer would consider throwing a big chunk of money into owning a share of a new Hamilton arena.
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  #5  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 11:00 AM
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Hamilton Bulldogs owner skeptical of new arena plan
(Hamilton Spectator, Andrew Dreschel, Sept 9 2019)

City council better get cracking if it wants the Hamilton Bulldogs aboard as the anchor tenant for a new 10,000-seat arena downtown.

Because team owner Michael Andlauer isn't prepared to wait the four or five years the proposed project is expected to take.

Andlauer says if the city can't get a new arena up and running before that, he'll be forced to look at moving his OHL hockey team elsewhere.

"I don't want to be put in that position, but I think timing is going to create that."

City council is expected Wednesday to approve creating a steering committee to choose a preferred downtown site and seek private sector partners for the $130-million facility.

But Andlauer is skeptical the committee will move with anything like the kind of speed he needs. He predicts it'll get snagged by location, budget and possibly expropriation debates.

He says if the city is really serious, the task force should be able to put together a hard proposal in 60 days. If that happened, he'd be all ears.

"If it's a definite timeline and there's a plan, a road map we can execute, then I'm open to it. But to me there's a lot of unanswered questions."

… There's no question the city is in danger of losing that base unless it seriously picks up the pace. Andlauer has pitched building a modern new arena to improve his team's marketing potential and fan experience for four years. He says he's running out of road.

His preferred location remains Lime Ridge Mall on Upper Wentworth Street. He and mall owner Cadillac Fairview have presented council with their own public-private partnership proposal. Details are confidential, but Andlauer says he'll sink millions of his own money into the project.

Andlauer says the Lime Ridge Mall plan, which he argues is a better deal for taxpayers and a more efficient project, would see an arena built and operational by March 2022. That's potentially a three-year difference to the downtown proposal. And timelines are crucial to his decision to stay in Hamilton or graze other pastures such as Burlington.

Mountain Couns. Esther Pauls and Terry Whitehead are expected to put forward a motion to study the Lime Ridge Mall proposal at Wednesday's council meeting.

However, because council initially voted to only study downtown, procedurally the motion will be treated as a reconsideration vote, which requires a two-thirds majority to pass. Scuttlebutt suggests that, barring a mass change of heart, it has scant hope of success.


Read it in full here.
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  #6  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 2:20 PM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
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I would be telling the Bulldogs owner to build his own arena if he doesn't like the process the city must go through. It's a junior hockey team not the NHL, he has no leverage to blackmail the city.
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  #7  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 1:49 AM
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Confidential proposal asks Hamilton to build hockey arena and parking garage at Lime Ridge Mall
The unsolicited proposal obtained by The Spectator says the Hamilton Bulldogs OHL team is willing to “offset” taxpayer construction costs — but the dollar amounts remain a mystery.

The Hamilton Bulldogs are asking the city to build a new arena and parking garage worth tens of millions of dollars at Lime Ridge Mall, according to a confidential proposal obtained by the Spectator.

But it remains unclear exactly how much the project would cost in total — or how much of the tab taxpayers would be on the hook to cover.

Under the plan, the OHL hockey team commits to "partially offset" the cost of construction for a 6,000-seat arena and 1,800-spot, three-storey parking facility. The Bulldogs would also handle arena maintenance.

No construction costs are included in proposal documents viewed by The Spectator and team owner Michael Andlauer declined through a spokesperson Monday to talk about how much he is willing to pay. Past estimates floated for a Mountain arena have been around $60 million.

Mall owner Cadillac Fairview would lease three acres attached to the former Sears store to taxpayers for $1-a-year and handle maintenance of the garage, which would provide free parking. The proposal also leaves open the prospect for a hotel.

The city parking studies suggest the cost of an above-ground parking structure can range from $22,000 to $35,000 per space. That would suggest a garage cost between $40 million and $63 million.

The unsolicited proposal, made privately to the city last month, represents a wild-card alternative available to city councillors as they debate whether to move ahead with an ambitious public-private redevelopment of aging downtown entertainment facilities.

A city consultant has recommended seeking private partners to help build and run a new $130-million sports complex downtown. A new convention centre would replace the FirstOntario Centre.

Private sector dollars — and maybe government grants, if the city applies to host the 2030 Commonwealth Games — would be expected to cut the taxpayer contribution.

The consultant also argued the city should spend its millions on a new facility rather than on repairs to a 34-year-old building that is leaking antifreeze and needs a new roof among $27 million in looming repairs.

But a successful, money-making arena hinges on having a willing "anchor tenant," that same consultant warned.

Right now, the Bulldogs are the anchor tenant in the existing FirstOntario Centre, but have only one year remaining on the lease for the building at York Boulevard and Bay Street.

The Spectator reached out to Cadillac Fairview for comment but did not hear back Monday.

But the owner of the city's largest mall — and biggest taxpayer — submitted planning documents to the city in 2018 that envisioned a radical redevelopment of the Upper Wentworth Street property that included new retail, office space, a parking garage and five new restaurants.

That application remains "on hold," according to planning staff.

While Andlauer would not comment on cost-sharing Monday, in the past the team owner has suggested he would make a "substantial" contribution — possibly up to half the cost — toward a Mountain arena built by the city.

The formal proposal to the city suggests building an arena with between 6,000 and 7,500 seats. It also sets an expected construction start date of March 2020 and an opening day exactly two years later.

Andlauer recently told the Spectator he is still willing to consider the city's downtown plans — if council moves fast enough.

A consultant estimate of five years to open a new downtown building is too long to wait, he said.

Mountain Coun. Esther Pauls is expected to try to convince her council colleagues to vote in favour of studying the unsolicited arena proposal Wednesday.

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  #8  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 3:45 AM
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There's nothing like a new arena with a backdrop of a shopping mall.
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  #9  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 4:02 AM
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There's nothing like a new arena with a backdrop of a shopping mall.
That was London for decades, and I think the Hartford Civic Centre is or was part of a mall as well lol.

Anyway, unless he's going to build it all himself, or with CF's help, I don't think the city should be backing any of this project. He's only looking at what's best for his team, and 6000 or so is right sized for OHL. But it's way too small for the city. 10,000 will still bring decent concerts and ice shows to Hamilton, 6,000 won't nearly as much. Hate to talk London again, but the Hunters wanted smaller and the city went with larger and it paid off. Being downtown was also very beneficial for spurring growth down there.
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  #10  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 4:46 AM
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Canadian Parking Association:

Quote:
In the Greater Toronto Area (GTA), a surface parking space would likely cost approximately $15,000 per space to build including land costs. An above ground parking garage would likely cost approximately $35,000 per space while underground parking would be about $50,000 per space. The general trend is towards less surface parking and more garage parking as land becomes scarce and hospitals continue to expand into the surface lots. This means the cost of providing parking is likely to increase significantly into the future.
Formulas vary but parking garages are estimated at $35K-$50K per spot. An example of this would be the Oakville GO parkade, which has 1000 spaces and cost $41m in 2012 ($46m in 2019).

Using that yardstick, a 1,800-vehicle capacity garage alone would cost $70m-$80m to build.
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Last edited by thistleclub; Sep 10, 2019 at 1:04 PM.
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  #11  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 12:41 PM
drpgq drpgq is offline
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The city paying millions for a new parking garage for CF seems ridiculous. I think from the report the city subsidizes First for $1.2 million a year. Fixing First and continuing that seems like a better deal.
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  #12  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 4:37 PM
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Sounds like a traffic nightmare. 6000 is too small. 10,000 seats would be a better compromise. I'm assuming CF would pay for the parking garage? no way the city should pay money for that.

I still hold hope that the City moves fast enough for Andaleaur's liking and a compromise is met for a 10,000 seat arena downtown.
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  #13  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 4:41 PM
HamiltonBoyInToronto HamiltonBoyInToronto is offline
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I hate the idea of this venue at a mall on the mountain but if that's the idea then why not Eastgate mall ? Huge parking lot and Sears empty ....on the LRT line ...close to QEW and the new GO station.....
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  #14  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 6:07 PM
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I hate the idea of this venue at a mall on the mountain but if that's the idea then why not Eastgate mall ? Huge parking lot and Sears empty ....on the LRT line ...close to QEW and the new GO station.....
I think the Bulldogs did a study and the majority of their fans come from Hamilton mountain(who drive to the game) so the limeridge location is their preference. Their preference may not be the best location and size for the City as a whole though.
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  #15  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 6:43 PM
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Seriously, it wouldn't bother me one bit if the OHL team just relocated.
I don't like the idea of bending over backwards for something that has this small a following.
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  #16  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 11:35 PM
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As much as I respect Andlauer for sticking it out here with the AHL and OHL, I don't think the city would have any problem finding a new regular tenant if the current edition of the Bulldogs were to leave.

I would be fine with a suitably sized Lime Ridge arena but only if private interests fund the heck out of it. But it seems like it may only be possible if the city ponies up large for both the rink and a parking garage, and that's not going to work with public money.

Cadillac-Fairview has played this smartly for their own potential gain. Can't blame them, they do need to keep their thing going up on Upper Wentworth.
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  #17  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2019, 4:07 AM
thistleclub thistleclub is offline
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I suspected as much with the 2022 target date, but the new Dreschel column suggests that Andlauer is working the Bob Young/Scott Mitchell playbook of using elections to squeeze concessions out of council.

Kind of like the 2010 West Harbour drama, except that the City hasn't just been awarded a Games bid that would have two-thirds of capital costs covered by senior government, and doesn't have a sizeable Future Fund reservoir to draw down. (And notably, that saga ended with the new facility basically a 90-degree rotation of the old.)
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  #18  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 2:41 PM
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Hamilton Bulldogs offering $30M toward proposed $72M Mountain arena
Owner Michael Andlauer is speaking to councillors about his pitch this morning.

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/9...ountain-arena/

Hamilton Bulldogs owner Michael Andlauer is proposing to pay up to $30 million toward the construction of a proposed $72-million OHL arena at Lime Ridge Mall.

The contentious pitch, to be made publicly this morning to Hamilton city councillors, also include a city-built $54-million parking garage at the Mountain mall, with Cadillac Fairview expected to lease the needed land for $1 a year.

Andlauer's presentation, made available ahead of this morning's meeting at city hall, also suggests a partnership with Metrolinx on the parking garage is possible via a related GO Transit park-and-ride.

The hockey team also proposes to take over management of the pitched 6,000-seat arena for 20 years, a move it suggests would eliminate the taxpayer subsidy on the current aging FirstOntario Centre downtown.

The public presentation was requested by council after The Spectator obtained and reported on a copy of a confidential arena pitch that suggested the city share the cost of a Mountain arena — but didn't reveal how much taxpayers would be expected to cough up.

The unsolicited pitch from Andlauer and Cadillac Fairview landed like a bomb amid a separate debate over whether to pursue a private-public redevelopment of all city-owned entertainment facilities downtown.

A city consultant has recommended building a $130-million, 10,000-seat arena and concert facility downtown alongside new private sector, "high-intensity" development and — eventually — a new convention centre.

Council has delayed moving ahead with that recommendation to deal with the surprise Mountain arena proposal.
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  #19  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 3:10 PM
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$72M for an arena but $54M for the parking garage. If he's giving only $30M that doesn't even cover the parking garage?

Doesn't sound like a great deal. The city would essentially be paying for a smaller arena and half a parking garage all on its own?

Also a 6000 seat arena will surely eliminate Hamilton from some of the larger concerts and events.
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  #20  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 3:16 PM
interr0bangr interr0bangr is offline
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Fuck that. Keep the arena downtown or get the hell out of town.
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