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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2013, 5:51 PM
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Is Chicago the Brooklyn to Schaumburg's unbuilt Manhattan? Those familiar with the unbuilt Schaumburg Planet development from the 1970's will get that inside joke. The point is people could throw out a bunch of meaningless comparisons all day without understanding the nuances of what Brooklyn and Manhattan are really like.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2013, 5:53 PM
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The comparisons don't have to be exact to the boroughs referenced, just a basic comparison to the supplementary role they play to each other.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2013, 6:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M II A II R II K View Post
The comparisons don't have to be exact to the boroughs referenced, just a basic comparison to the supplementary role they play to each other.
San Francisco would be the Manhattan of the bay area for sure, to think anything else is just a delusional wet dream of the NIMBY class. Oakland could be Brooklyn or possibly the Bronx. As far as Silicon Valley I don't know, is there anything resembling a tech hub in the great NYC metro area? Silicon Valley's equivalent would probably be a suburban office park corridor in inland New Jersey or possibly Westchester County, New York or Stamford, Connecticut or something. Is Manhattan itself the new Brooklyn to Stamford, CT's unbuilt Manhattan? Well some of the talk shows are starting to think so! It's madness I tell you, madness
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2013, 6:25 PM
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no. two demerits for an inane post as well. bad urbanist!
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 4:14 AM
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it's an amusing premise, but fundamentally flawed in many ways.

there is only one manhattan in north america, and only one new york city... but downtown san francisco comes closer than most other cities and certainly any west of the mississippi.

in this image there are more than 150 towers with perhaps another 20 to come in the next 5 years, including several of more than 50 stories. there is heavy rail transit, grade separated light rail, some of the world's busiest bus lines, millions of square feet of retail, tens of thousands of hotel rooms, etc etc.



to compare this to brooklyn is somewhat ridiculous. very few cities approach this level of density of jobs, housing, and amenities. brooklyn is amazing but it's not really a complete city - it's a part of new york city, integrally connected and mutually reliant on manhattan and to a lesser degree the other boroughs.

like new york city as a whole - but much smaller - san francisco is a complete city, with relatively high density throughout but discrete neighborhoods and districts. it's not a bedroom community no matter how many tens of thousands of people commute out of the city any more than new york city is just because some people work in jersey or connecticut.



where the article has some merit is that silicon valley itself is an uninspiring physical environment. but to compare it uniformly to newer sun belt suburbs is also unfair. within the greater bay area there are older and newer neighborhoods, most of which are relatively dense by sun belt tract standards, and the sheer amount of office space (hundreds of millions of square feet) in the greater bay area is more than anything outside the country's very largest metros.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 5:16 AM
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^^^ Thanks for keeping it real!
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 7:04 AM
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Originally Posted by fflint View Post
The way I understand it, when you call someplace you're in "the Brooklyn to" some other place, you're saying everyone works over there and then comes back here at night and on weekends. While we all love to pay inordinate attention to the pampering of high-tech whiz-kid commuters, and the number of San Franciscans who work outside the city is not insignificant, the statistics belie the "Brooklyn" theory of San Francisco.

Brooklyn and Kings County are one and the same, ditto for Manhattan and New York County. According to the Census Bureau, of the 1,071,549 workers in Kings County, some 494,455 are employed in some other county. That means 46% of employed Brooklynites leave the borough for work.

San Francisco city and county are one and the same. According to the Census Bureau, of San Francisco County's 437,125 workers, some 94,318 of are employed in some other county. That means 21% of employed San Franciscans leave the city for work.

Again, that is not an insignificant number--but it's nothing like the numbers who flood out of Brooklyn to work elsewhere, presumably most of them in Manhattan.
I live in Brooklyn and that makes sense. While Brooklyn has plenty of businesses (I have a shop and live above it), a massive wave of Brooklynites leaves every morning en route to #1 Manhattan, #2 Queens (especially JFK and LGA), #3 New Jersey, #4 Nassau County and #5 Upstate/CT. While that 46% stat seems high and probably doesn't account for tens of thousands undocumented workers, Brooklyn is indeed a feeder for the region- nothing like San Francisco which is a clear center.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 1:19 PM
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I've got an even more prfound question:

Is Manhattan the Brooklyn to itself? Is Brooklyn the Manhattan to Manhattan in a parallel universe?

I will now spend 9 hours meditating about this in order to seek the answer...
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  #29  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 1:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Is Manhattan the Brooklyn to itself?


Fuhggedaboutit!

Shroud of the BQE.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 5:07 PM
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Is Uzbekistan the Port Moresby to Burkina Faso's unbuilt Lujiazui?
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  #31  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 5:41 PM
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So when do we start building this Manhattan II? Is there a thread for it yet?
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  #32  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 6:21 PM
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Is Cleveland Detroit's stepchild?

Is Toledo the result of an asexual reproduction stemming from Columbus, OH? Did Columbus auto-fertilize itself to produce multiple cities around Ohio?

And why does Grand Rapids always glance seductively over at Flint? Is there something going on over there?

.....very interesting indeed
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  #33  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 6:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tech12 View Post
No SF is not the Brooklyn to Silicon Valley's "unbuilt Manhattan".

The entire premise of this article is dumb. The Bay Area already has a "Manhattan", and that's SF, which is by far the largest single center of business in the Bay Area. And if there's a Brooklyn equivalent here, it's Oakland/Berkeley. SF gains far more commuters from the rest of the Bay Area every day than it gives to Silicon Valley...those google-bus riding techies from SF are a small percentage of SF's population (and SF is part of "silicon valley" anyways going by some definitions). And the tech industry is currently booming in SF proper as well.
Couldn't agree more.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 6:54 PM
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San Jose is the San Francisco of the South Bay.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 6:59 PM
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San Francisco is and always will be "The City". It is where we Californians who live in more suburbanized parts of the state (all of it, in fact) go for an "urban fix". To suggest that it plays second fiddle to Silicon Valley or anywhere else by any measure is simply silly. It is sui generis and offers everything any urbanite, wannabe urbanite, or someone merely seeking a great place to spend a few days could possibly want. If it weren't so unearthly expensive, I'd live there myself.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 7:01 PM
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Perhaps Silicon Valley can aspire to be the New Jersey of San Francisco instead.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 8:07 PM
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Are Newark and Union City the Newark and Union City of the Bay Area?
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  #38  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 8:40 PM
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Does Chicago have an 'unbuilt Manhattan' floating next to it in Lake Michigan? Better yet, is Chicago's downtown actually Manhattan in disguise?
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  #39  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2013, 4:12 AM
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As someone who's lived in the Bay Area 10+ years, I find the premise in the OP's linked article about the Peninsula and South Bay urbanizing....absolutely laughable. It'll happen when hell freezes over.

People who like urbanity, restaurants, bars, street life, and a young energetic vibe (and are willing to put up with the various urban ills that often accompany those kinds of places) live in SF, Berkeley, and Oakland. People who don't like that stuff and prefer more of a stay-at-home lifestyle live in the Peninsula and especially the South Bay.

But wait, aren't there a lot of people in the first category whose jobs are in the South Bay? Well, yes, and when I first moved here in 1999, some of those people lived down there too. But ever since Google started their shuttle service and most other tech companies followed suit, living in SF and commuting suddenly got more feasible - and I think a lot of people started joining them even if their companies didn't offer that service. It seems to me like considerably fewer under-30 single people live in the South Bay now compared to 10 years ago, which has also affected the business mix as well.

I'm sure this kind of lifestyle separation happens in most other huge metros as well.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2013, 8:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs913 View Post
People who like urbanity, restaurants, bars, street life, and a young energetic vibe (and are willing to put up with the various urban ills that often accompany those kinds of places) live in SF, Berkeley, and Oakland. People who don't like that stuff and prefer more of a stay-at-home lifestyle live in the Peninsula and especially the South Bay.
Oh, I had no idea everything was so black-and-white....
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