Rideau Centre Expansion | Completed

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Do the owners of the Rideau Centre read this site I wonder??? They basically took the ideas straight from us!

In terms of the food court move that is pretty much standard mall design rules.

Back when Rideau was built the tendency was to put food courts on the bottom levels. The thinking was food smells rise.

The trend in newer malls (says late 80's on or so) was to put the food court on higher levels (basically further in). The thinking being that people coming in to grab a bite to eat would have to walk through more of the mall, thus increasing the chances that they (impulsively) buy stuff from other merchants.


It is the same reason they wanted the Rideau street bus routes moved to bridge when the LRT is built. It is also the same reason IKEA makes you go through "Market Hall" in order to get to the check-outs. People pick stuff up. Most retail is impulsive.

[J.OT13]

For those who still have accsess to the Ottawa Citizen site; what are the three pictures? Any renderings?

I subscribe to the print version of the Citizen, so I will see if I have free accsess to the site when I have time.

[Radster]

I am not big fan of mall foodcourts in basements/low levels. To me, it tarnishes the dining experience as I feel like I am in a stuffy confined space without natural light. Some of the nicest malls I visited in Asia & Europe have food courts on the top levels, with skylights, natural light, lots of open space and breathing room, resulting in a positive dining experience, a good relaxing break from shopping. I have seen nice foodcourts on lower levels too, but they include high atriums, for example Galeries de Hull, where natural light enters. Will the bottom level of the current Sears have any natural light? How high are the ceilinings? Will there be an atrium? I hope they design it in a way where one doesn't feel too confined and claustrophobic as is often the case in a basement food court.

Here is my favourite mall food court, its in Warsaw Poland, inside Zlote Tarasy (Golden Terraces). You can see a small part of the food court seating on the top right of the picture:
http://czarnota.org/gallery/albums/warsz...-_Warszawa_-_Zlote_tarasy_-_otwarcie.jpg

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by Radster

I am not big fan of mall foodcourts in basements/low levels.

That's where Cadillac Fairview seems to be putting them. The Eaton Centre and Fairview mall both have new, or fairly new, food courts and they're both on the lower levels and they don't have natural light. The dining experience at both is great. Same with the Eaton Centre in Montreal.

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

For those who still have accsess to the Ottawa Citizen site; what are the three pictures? Any renderings?

I subscribe to the print version of the Citizen, so I will see if I have free accsess to the site when I have time.

There are no renderings. All this was announced in a speech at a real estate conference at the Hampton Inn.

The Citizen article just has a few file photos. One of the Sears mall entrance on the Mackenzie King Bridge, one of the blank cement wall facing the parking lot between Rideau and Besserer, and one of mob of people "lined up" at Subway on Canada Day.

[Harley613]

i'm almost more excited to see the existing rideau street facade be updated than i am for the expansion.....almost.....

[kevinbottawa]

This article from the Sun says that aside from the food court there will be stores on the lower level of Sears.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/10/11/rideau-centre-mulls-250m-expansion

Here's a nice quote.

“The finishes and the environment will be extremely contemporary,” said VanBuskirk.

[teej1984]

Extremely contemporary eh... let's hope for something like the Westfield Mall in Sydney, AU!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westfield_Sydney

#wishfulthinking

[J.OT13]

According to the Citizen and Metro news, H&M will take the corner of Rideau and Nicholas, sporting the 1907 Charles Ogilvy façade as a lot of us had predicted.

I'm very happy this is getting some steam once again and I have full comfidance that Cadillac Fairview will deliver us a fine product.

Food court will take up 80,000 square feet of the 83,000 square foot lower level.

The Metro article also tells us more of Charles Ogilvy's fate.

Mall expansion will change character of Rideau St., says Rideau Centre manager




The character of a Rideau St. heritage building will change dramatically if a proposed $250 million redevelopment of the Rideau Centre goes ahead, the mall’s General Manager said Friday.

“The building itself is not designated as a heritage building, but portions of the facade that face Rideau St. on the first three levels are,” Rideau Centre General Manager Cindy VanBuskirk said of the Ogilvy building at the corner of Nicholas and Rideau St.

“That’s our development site,” she said, noting the five storey building has been boarded up and vacant for more than ten years. “The building will be completely torn down. The heritage facades will be torn down and then reapplied to the new facade.”

In 1907 the building first housed Ogilvy’s department store, a three storey structure designed by architect W.E. Noffke for businessman Charles Ogilvy. Two more storeys were added later before the shop closed in 1992. Retail tenants came and went throughout the decade before 2000 when the city gave the heritage designation to its three street fronting facades.

The expansion of the Rideau Centre into the building, VanBuskirk said, will work to animate Rideau St. at the corner of Nicholas and along the street behind the bus shelters.

“In the past there was no real requirement to have an outside facing space since there was a large bus shelter there. That’s why our mall looks inward.”

The 180,000-square-foot expansion into the parking lot and Ogilvy building are expected to cost mall owners Cadillac Fairview Corp. Ltd. $150 million to build the addition.

Retail tenants eying the mall will be attracted by having more street-facing stores, VanBuskirk said. “The expansion will be fully integrated with the mall. Most certainly new retail space would face Rideau St.”

The Ottawa Citizen reports that artist’s renderings of the new three-storey building at the corner of Nicholas and Rideau St. sports the logo of popular retailer H&M.

Still, the mall has not made a formal announcement that the project is going ahead, VanBuskirk said.

“What we did at the real estate forum was to demonstrate to our industry colleagues an intent to proceed,” she said of an announcement about the project made at the 19th annual Ottawa Real Estate Forum on Thursday. “We’re well into the process, but there are a lot of things that still need to be figured out.”

The City has not yet received an application from the Rideau Centre for site plan approval for an expansion, though preliminary discussions have been held with planning staff, said city spokesperson, Jocelyne Turner.

The project would also see the interior of the existing mall completely renovated with the food court moved to 80,000 square feet of vacant space on first floor of the old Sears department store. The expansion is expected to open in 2015.

http://metronews.ca/news/ottawa/401702/m...of-rideau-st-says-rideau-centre-manager/

[Fraser]

If anyone is paying close attention to the City's new Lobbyist Registry: on October 3, 2012, Ritchard Brisbin (Principal, BBB Architects) met with John Smit (Manager, Urban Development) to discuss "re-development" in the Rideau-Vanier ward on behalf of his client, Cadillac Fairview.

Safe to say that BBB Architects has teamed up with Caddillac Fairview and will lead the design of the Rideau Centre expansion?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Fraser

If anyone is paying close attention to the City's new Lobbyist Registry: on October 3, 2012, Ritchard Brisbin (Principal, BBB Architects) met with John Smit (Manager, Urban Development) to discuss "re-development" in the Rideau-Vanier ward on behalf of his client, Cadillac Fairview.

Safe to say that BBB Architects has teamed up with Caddillac Fairview and will lead the design of the Rideau Centre expansion?

Wah-oh!? I've never been a huge fan of BBB architects. There projects (at least in Ottawa) aren't horrible, but there not superb either.

Update: after checking out their site, they have some pretty cool projects outside OT, but the ones in OT, I find, kind of lack that extra quality we need. But that might have more to do with governmental limitation when it comes to innovative design.

[eemy]

I'd say they have a pretty good record. I think the new terminal at the airport is particularly exceptional.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I'd say they have a pretty good record. I think the new terminal at the airport is particularly exceptional.

Ya, it is. Once again, I think that I might have spoken too soon.

[Abe Simpson]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I'd say they have a pretty good record. I think the new terminal at the airport is particularly exceptional.

I very much agree with you. Given the quality of the airport terminal, the expansion should turn out to be a decent addition to downtown. Rideau Street could certainly use it.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Wah-oh!? I've never been a huge fan of BBB architects. There projects (at least in Ottawa) aren't horrible, but there not superb either.

Update: after checking out their site, they have some pretty cool projects outside OT, but the ones in OT, I find, kind of lack that extra quality we need. But that might have more to do with governmental limitation when it comes to innovative design.

They did do the new convention centre. Even if you don't love it, you can't say it's not innovative.

[toaster]

Of the new tenants, I think most of them will also be part of the new Bayshore development, which will be completed ahead of this.

[J.OT13]

Is anybody else angry that they won't keep Charles Ogilvy's in it's intirety? For the life of me, I can't figure out why they won't do it.

Is it because they want a larger parking garage? They could just add on to the other one, or not. Thousands of condos have been built around it in recent years and more to come, a lot of their clientele come by bus, and even more by subway once it's built.

Is it because of the number of columns in the old building compared to a new one? If so, big deal; H&M often set up shop in intact heritage buildings, and I'm sure they always have a lot of columns. As for other retailers, they will come anyway because it's a prime location in a landmark building.

It can't be finances; seems to me that it is more expensive tearing down a building, brick by brick, then the steel structure, rebuild on top and rebuild part of a heritage façade, brick by brick. The alternative is restore the façade of the whole building (yes, very labour intensive), but then you don't have to build a whole new structure; just connect new into the old, as originally planned in the early 80's. It likely saves building around 45,000 square feet of new space, plus you have another 30,000 square feet of space on the top floors as office space.

I also doubt that it's a structural issue. It's a steel framed building dating back 78-105 years that has been abandoned for the last 20 years and is still, despite needing a lot of esthetic work on the outside to fix what is essentially the owners fault (although Viking Rideau is no longer the owner, Cadillac Fairview has had part ownership since 1983), it still looks straight as an arrow, no deviation, sagging or anything indicating structural damage. Of course I haven’t been inside (floors?) and their seems to be pooling on the roof from Google maps 45 degrees (otherwise, the roof looks fine).

But with all of that, the one thing I know is that the only reason the Rideau Centre's GM, Cindy VanBuskirk , indicated was "The building itself is not designated as a heritage building, but portions of the facade that face Rideau St. on the first three levels are". (see my Metro news post about half way up page 2)

[spotlight]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Is anybody else angry that they won't keep Charles Ogilvy's in it's intirety? For the life of me, I can't figure out why they won't do it.

Is it because they want a larger parking garage? They could just add on to the other one, or not. Thousands of condos have been built around it in recent years and more to come, a lot of their clientele come by bus, and even more by subway once it's built.

Is it because of the number of columns in the old building compared to a new one? If so, big deal; H&M often set up shop in intact heritage buildings, and I'm sure they always have a lot of columns. As for other retailers, they will come anyway because it's a prime location in a landmark building.

It can't be finances; seems to me that it is more expensive tearing down a building, brick by brick, then the steel structure, rebuild on top and rebuild part of a heritage façade, brick by brick. The alternative is restore the façade of the whole building (yes, very labour intensive), but then you don't have to build a whole new structure; just connect new into the old, as originally planned in the early 80's. It likely saves building around 45,000 square feet of new space, plus you have another 30,000 square feet of space on the top floors as office space.

I also doubt that it's a structural issue. It's a steel framed building dating back 78-105 years that has been abandoned for the last 20 years and is still, despite needing a lot of esthetic work on the outside to fix what is essentially the owners fault (although Viking Rideau is no longer the owner, Cadillac Fairview has had part ownership since 1983), it still looks straight as an arrow, no deviation, sagging or anything indicating structural damage. Of course I haven’t been inside (floors?) and their seems to be pooling on the roof from Google maps 45 degrees (otherwise, the roof looks fine).

But with all of that, the one thing I know is that the only reason the Rideau Centre's GM, Cindy VanBuskirk , indicated was "The building itself is not designated as a heritage building, but portions of the facade that face Rideau St. on the first three levels are". (see my Metro news post about half way up page 2)

I can't speak for all the reasons but one of the reason is obviously that they want to keep the symmetry of the expansion the same as the existing mall.. meaning 3 shopping floors throughout.. yes the cineplex is on a 4th floor but that's the only place.

it makes more sense to have it the same as the others so that if ever H&M leaves they can either add 3 new tenants (one per floor) or another tenant that comes in happy as a clam to have 3 mall openings as well as a dedicated street front entrance.

to leave it as is and build the new expansion and parking garage around the building protecting it and attempting to keep it from crumbling from the construction and digging at its footings is a logistical nightmare .. so it is in fact a lot easier and cheaper to tear down the building and rebuild the heritage facade in symmetry with the rest of the mall

[m0nkyman]

So put some offices on the higher floors. This ain't rocket surgery. I'm not really that angry at Cadillac Fairview. They are taking advantage of the fact that the building has not been designated as a heritage building. That's fair ball.

The real issue is why the Ogilvie building wasn't declared heritage. In my not so humble opinion that's the screw up.

[J.OT13]

I thought about the visual symmetry (3 floors thru out), but we have the 8 storey Transportation building on the N-W corner. As for the blank wall (which would be lower than the Transportation building) we could see a mural depicting the history of the Rideau Centre area.