Wellington Street (downtown) at risk of being renamed

[OttawaSteve]

Originally Posted by immanuel_smcs

All this great history is worth remembering.
The streets downtown Ottawa all have historical names and they were given for a reason.

To be clear, though, not every street in downtown Ottawa has retained its original name. Streets do get renamed.

[gjhall]

True, but for the most part, and as it should be, streets that are renamed are those that are not ceremonially named: Centre St, streets named after types of trees, names of the children of developers, etc. Much the same as the suburban developments of today, developers of yesteryear (streetcar or earlier) named their streets for marketing purposes or after their family members. They are great candidates for renaming, but those named after historical figures shouldn't really be changed unless a major historical revision takes place.

[immanuel_smcs]

Originally Posted by OttawaSteve

To be clear, though, not every street in downtown Ottawa has retained its original name. Streets do get renamed.

To be clear,
I didn't claim that every street downtown Ottawa had retained its original name.

For example, Laurier Street was not on your 1877 map.
This self-evident. Laurier became prime minister in 1896 and was in his glory in the early 1900s.

Short lesson of history

These streets are related in some way to Wellington:

- Coburg/Gloucester Sts. - fought against Napoleon on the Prussian side
- Cathcart St. - Cathcart - served under Wellington in Peninsula and at Waterloo; GG of BNA 1846-47
- Dalhousie St. - Dalhousie, George Ramsay, 9th Earl - CO 7th Division in Peninsular War under Wellington; send by W. to get Rideau Canal under way; to Ottawa in 1826 with Colonel By
Murray St. - Murray, George - fought in Peninsular War under Wellington; Quartermaster General; December 1814 to May 1815 provisional Lieutenant-Governor of Upper Canada and reviewed the defences of Canada; Lt. General of the Ordinance; Colonial Secretary

And these are related to Royals of the Time:

- Kent Street - Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn - fourth son of King George III and the father of Queen Victoria
- Cumberland St. - Fifth son of King George III, the Duke of Cumberland
- Sussex Drive - Earl of Sussex; sixth son of George III; Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England, 1813-1843 (they were all Masons!)
- York St. - Frederick, Duke of York - second son of King George III; reformer of the British Army; Wellington succeeded him as commander-in-chief of the army
- Charlotte St. - Queen Charlotte, Princess of Mecklenburg-Strelitz

These are streets in the downtown core and were named for historical reasons.


So back to Laurier Avenue: It had a different name before it was Laurier, and it's fine that it was renamed. Laurier was a great prime minister and he needs to be remembered. Macdonald was also a great prime minister and he is commemorated through a statue on Parliament Hill. There is also a bridge, airport and highway on which he shares the name with Cartier.

Additionally, Macdonald and Cartier already have their own streets in Somerset Ward.
Drive west on Somerset Street towards QE Drive and you will find them

[immanuel_smcs]

Originally Posted by gjhall

True, but for the most part, and as it should be, streets that are renamed are those that are not ceremonially named: Centre St, streets named after types of trees, names of the children of developers, etc. Much the same as the suburban developments of today, developers of yesteryear (streetcar or earlier) named their streets for marketing purposes or after their family members. They are great candidates for renaming, but those named after historical figures shouldn't really be changed unless a major historical revision takes place.

Very good points gjhall.
Additionally, when the city council considered the proposition for the Commemorative Naming Policy, the motion that adopted the report was amended to include that historical precedence should be given to streets.
This is not reflected in the policy posted on the city website but you can find this in the city council minutes of the July 24, 2002 meeting.

[adam-machiavelli]

A search for MacDonald-Cartier Society and Immanuel Giulea on Google reveals that the organization, of which Immanuel founded and seems to single-handedly run and promote has hosted multiple conservative thinkers but no progressive thinkers, the staff of the organization all have Conservative Party connections, and Immanuel (a self described "Christian Conservative") himself tried unsuccessfully to launch a national youth wing of the Conservative Party. I find it very odd that someone such as Mr. Giulea who likely holds the CPC in such high esteem would accuse me of defamation for simply connecting the dots. I also noticed that Immanuel and I have 2 common friends on Facebook :p

[immanuel_smcs]

Originally Posted by immanuel_smcs

Rideau Canal represented the centrepoint of Bytown (now Ottawa).
To the west, Wellington Street and Upper Town.
To the east, Rideau Street and Lower Town.

There are socio-economic realms related to Upper vs Lower Town.
The name of Wellington Street is deeply linked to 185 years of local history of Bytown/Ottawa but also Upper Canada/Ontario.

Just to complete what I mentioned earlier about the socio-economic realms separated by the canal in the early days of Bytown :

Growing Pains

At the Earl of Dalhousie's request, Colonel By laid out the town's grid. The Rideau Canal bisected the community, which was served by two main roads: Rideau Street in Lower Town and Wellington Street in Upper Town. Lower Town, to the east of the canal, was populated by Roman Catholics, both Irish and French; Upper Town, to the west, was made up largely of Protestants, both English and Scottish. Barrack's Hill (now Parliament Hill) was home to soldiers. Along the canal embankment, By allowed canal labourers to "squat" in sod or log shanties. This area became known as Corkstown, after County Cork in Ireland where many of the labourers were from. Once the canal was finished, the Corkstown inhabitants left Bytown or moved into Lower Town.

source: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/d...75-2100-e.html

emphasis in red is mine.

[immanuel_smcs]

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

A search for MacDonald-Cartier Society and Immanuel Giulea on Google reveals that the organization, of which Immanuel founded and seems to single-handedly run and promote has hosted multiple conservative thinkers but no progressive thinkers, the staff of the organization all have Conservative Party connections, and Immanuel (a self described "Christian Conservative") himself tried unsuccessfully to launch a national youth wing of the Conservative Party. I find it very odd that someone such as Mr. Giulea who likely holds the CPC in such high esteem would accuse me of defamation for simply connecting the dots. I also noticed that Immanuel and I have 2 common friends on Facebook :p

Great! more defamatory accusations.

1- You continue to misspell the name of the organization, there is no capital D in Macdonald-Cartier. I already brought this to your attention.

2- The organization hosted a broad range of thinkers including Satya Das who is author of Green Oil and spoke in Montreal,QC for our first event in November 2009. We also had events in Ottawa, Toronto and Calgary,AB.

3- The so-called "Christian Conservative" you refer to has his own blog, and I never event met that guy!
http://canadaconservative.blogspot.com/
I am clueless on how you could even make another such defamatory accusation.
Please stop!

All this is off-topic.
But since I observe that you take great interest in my personal life:
And I want to add that whatever personal political conviction I may have, I have the right to have these and the Charter protects freedom of association.

That said, the organization is not run for personal interests or personal gains and therefore the organization is not connected to any political party. Our events were attended by people who may be involved in political parties or those youth who are not involved in partisan politics.

As for progressive thinkers, we had Janet Keeping from the Chumir Ethics Foundation in Calgary. So we had progressive thinkers. And Satya Das is another progressive thinker I already mentioned.

I hope this clears up any doubts on the organization's independence and non-partisanship.
And let's go back on-topic, please!

[Umpaidh]

While it's always important to know where your information is coming from, I don't know how this applies to the subject at hand.

My personal opinion on the subject is that if we renamed Wellington Street, we would be losing a connection to the person who started the process for this very city to exist, way back before Canada was even a federal dominion.

Renaming either the River Parkway, or the Airport Parkway would be the best options.

[Dado]

Oh for the love of God...

Originally Posted by immanuel_smcs

Great! more defamatory accusations.

1- You continue to misspell the name of the organization, there is no capital D in Macdonald-Cartier. I already brought this to your attention.

Good point. Adam, stop misspelling our first Prime Minister's name (and I was recently guilty of this too...).

2- The organization hosted a broad range of thinkers including Satya Das who is author of Green Oil and spoke in Montreal,QC for our first event in November 2009. We also had events in Ottawa, Toronto and Calgary,AB.

3- The so-called "Christian Conservative" you refer to has his own blog, and I never event met that guy!
http://canadaconservative.blogspot.com/

Adam did not accuse you of being the author of the Christian Conservative blog, he simply accused you of being a Christian Conservative. But now that you linked to that blog, I decided to do some more research... it turns out that the author of that blog has had some unkind things to say about your attempts to form a youth wing in the Conservative Party:

http://canadaconservative.blogspot.c...rch?q=immanuel

And the same named Satya Das that you mentioned above is mentioned in the letter you sent around that was republished on the above blog. At least the circles are all making sense.

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

A search for MacDonald-Cartier Society and Immanuel Giulea on Google reveals that the organization, of which Immanuel founded and seems to single-handedly run and promote has hosted multiple conservative thinkers but no progressive thinkers, the staff of the organization all have Conservative Party connections, and Immanuel (a self described "Christian Conservative") himself tried unsuccessfully to launch a national youth wing of the Conservative Party. I find it very odd that someone such as Mr. Giulea who likely holds the CPC in such high esteem would accuse me of defamation for simply connecting the dots. I also noticed that Immanuel and I have 2 common friends on Facebook :p

Well at least we've all now settled the question of whether or not this is some kind of partisan ploy: it isn't.


As for the Macdonald-Cartier Society, I don't know what to make of it:
http://macdonaldcartier.org/
There's nothing too objectionable; it pretty much conforms to the standard Red Toryism on which Canada was founded (and which, frankly, the current CPC government could do with relearning), but as Adam points out the speakers (at least those whose names I recognize) are a bit one-sided. Basically I'm having trouble matching the ill-defined mandate and various other content (civic identity, national conversation) with the events it has held. Put simply, the organization is incoherent and some of what it proposes to do is being done by the Dominion Institute anyway.



And all of this is detracting from the newest development in the renaming Wellington saga, which is that for some reason the City has been trying to consult with the feds on the issue, which was in the Sun article that Immanuel linked to in his first post:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2011/05/24/...oject-for-city

[kwoldtimer]

This thread seems ready to spin off into strangeness. How about sticking to the renaming of the street? Why doesn't the idea go away?

[immanuel_smcs]

Originally Posted by Dado

As for the Macdonald-Cartier Society, I don't know what to make of it:
http://macdonaldcartier.org/
There's nothing too objectionable; it pretty much conforms to the standard Red Toryism on which Canada was founded (and which, frankly, the current CPC government could do with relearning), but as Adam points out the speakers (at least those whose names I recognize) are a bit one-sided. Basically I'm having trouble matching the ill-defined mandate and various other content (civic identity, national conversation) with the events it has held. Put simply, the organization is incoherent and some of what it proposes to do is being done by the Dominion Institute anyway.



And all of this is detracting from the newest development in the renaming Wellington saga, which is that for some reason the City has been trying to consult with the feds on the issue, which was in the Sun article that Immanuel linked to in his first post:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2011/05/24/...oject-for-city

Alright, just so we can clear the air and move on.
The organization adopted the current mission statement in May 2010 after we were officially registered as a federal non-profit.

The events to which Adam referred were held in December 2009, January 2010 and March 2010.
The event with Satya Das was Nov 2009.
These events fall under the previous mission statement.

I hope this ends this spin-off.


So...
How about renaming the Ottawa River Parkway to Macdonald-Cartier Parkway ?
It's owned by the NCC, this takes out the political process from city hall out of the equation.
There's only a few street signs to replace.
It follows the border with Quebec, so including Cartier is a good commemoration.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by ThePlanner

If it's renamed McDonald Boulevard, they should move all the pubs to that street. Sir John A would approve.

And maybe they should turn it into a FRIGGIN' BOULEVARD.

God, this town is small-town cheap.

[Uhuniau]

Oh, I totally want to bring back the original names of Nunnery Street and Biddy Street!

[adam-machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Oh, I totally want to bring back the original names of Nunnery Street and Biddy Street!

I approve!

In all seriousness, there are enough streets named after long dead government figures. I'd like to see streets named after the activists who improved the lives of everyone...as opposed to the fat cats who helped the people in high political office or big business. Terry Fox Drive was a good start. We should also honour recent Nobel Peace Prize winners such as Shirin Ebadi, Wangari Muta Maathai, and Liu Xiaobo.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

I approve!

In all seriousness, there are enough streets named after long dead government figures. I'd like to see streets named after the activists who improved the lives of everyone...as opposed to the fat cats who helped the people in high political office or big business. Terry Fox Drive was a good start. We should also honour recent Nobel Peace Prize winners such as Shirin Ebadi, Wangari Muta Maathai, and Liu Xiaobo.

Oh... i like the sound of that!

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

I approve!

In all seriousness, there are enough streets named after long dead government figures. I'd like to see streets named after the activists who improved the lives of everyone...as opposed to the fat cats who helped the people in high political office or big business. Terry Fox Drive was a good start. We should also honour recent Nobel Peace Prize winners such as Shirin Ebadi, Wangari Muta Maathai, and Liu Xiaobo.

Its one thing to name major streets after canadian activists who have or did help people in canada etc its another thing if you start naming major streets after people that really had little to no impact on canada.

[rodionx]

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

I approve!

In all seriousness, there are enough streets named after long dead government figures. I'd like to see streets named after the activists who improved the lives of everyone...as opposed to the fat cats who helped the people in high political office or big business. Terry Fox Drive was a good start. We should also honour recent Nobel Peace Prize winners such as Shirin Ebadi, Wangari Muta Maathai, and Liu Xiaobo.

See you at Maathai and Xiaobo! Then it's off to Rigoberta Plaza for a little performance art.

Seriously, though - international names wouldn't fly - remember the proposal to name the Corktown footbridge after Nelson Mandela? Went down in flames. But then naming public infrastructure after local activists would get everyone tied up in knots. Sure, Terry Fox works, but Diane Holmes Avenue? Hmmm....

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by rodionx

Sure, Terry Fox works, but Diane Holmes Avenue? Hmmm....

Not nearly pretentious enough for Ottawa. It would have to be Diane Holmes Boulevard.

On a related note, I once got intercepted by a gaggle of German-speaking tourists, navigating using one of the NCC guide maps, who were anxious to visit beautiful Confederation Boulevard.

I told them they were standing on it.

Boy, did they seem disappointed.

[immanuel_smcs]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

And maybe they should turn it into a FRIGGIN' BOULEVARD.

God, this town is small-town cheap.

Wellington Street should be more of a touristic street than high-traffic boulevard.

The NCC wants to run a bike path lane.

So it's not even close to being a boulevard.
They should make it a pedestrian street from Elgin to Bank.

[ServiceGuy]

Originally Posted by immanuel_smcs

Wellington Street should be more of a touristic street than high-traffic boulevard. They should make it a pedestrian street from Elgin to Bank.

Great idea... let's completely gridlock the downtown core not to mention the overwhelming success of Sparks Street Mall.