[Halifax] Grand Haven Estates | ? m | 4x12 fl | U/C

[DigitalNinja]

I'm not saying we should have 40 million people in HRM, but my point was that for a major city it is a painfully low density, and the reorganization of countys could seriously help the problem.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by spaustin

See the thing is a small town is usually a place that other people, besides the immediate townsfolk, also pass through. Out in the rural areas, there tends to also be less competition. I don't think this development has any of the required conditions for winning retail. It's basically a deadend so it's really not going to draw in anyone from outside the development leaving about 700 people, tops, to market to. Those 700 people live in a large city whose travels take them all over the place and not some small town with one store/cafe/restaurant to choose from. They have plenty of choices about where to spend their dollars. Given the current design, I just don't see this as a great spot for retail.

I agree with what you stated but this only needs to support 1000 square meters (10,764 square feet) of commercial space - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/01304StageI_DA.pdf . If the developer feels that they can rent or sell more space than this I am sure that they will build it.

I live in a dense, mostly detached-home, suburban area of the GTA (the development has about 10-12 homes per square acre not including streets and parks, so the density per square acre is probably only about 15 - 20 people/acre). The local area convenience store usually has lineups even though people can drive to shopping malls just 5 minutes away. So I think that 30 people per square acre can easily support some minor retail.

Maybe I am missing the point of this discussion? There is already a major shopping area within walking distance of this development (Bayers Lake Shopping area). There can be pedestrian paths to the neighboring apartment buildings that surround this project (it would encourage people to walk instead of drive).

In addition to this multi-dwelling project, I think that the HRM could use more dense single family developments. Instead of lots with more than 50 foot wide frontage, 30 foot wide lots can accommodate single family homes (my lot is 36 feet wide and these lots were advertised as being wider than standard lots).

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

I'm not saying we should have 40 million people in HRM, but my point was that for a major city it is a painfully low density, and the reorganization of countys could seriously help the problem.

I completely agree with what you stated but using 5500 square kilometers to work out the urban density gives an artificially low density number. Most of that 5500 square kilometers is not yet developed - maybe it will be in 100 - 200 years time. At 30 people per acre, Halifax will be a very highly populated city at that time in the future. I think the urban core should be more dense than 30 people per square acre, however, 30 people per acre for the suburbs is good.

[DigitalNinja]

My house is wider than your lot. XD

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

My house is wider than your lot. XD

But shouldn't you be living in a denser neighbourhood to encourage higher density in the HRM ?

[Keith P.]

Bayers Lake is not a walking destination. Much of it has no sidewalks and the stores are located in acres and acres of parking lots. Hardly pedestrian-friendly.

[DigitalNinja]

Should be, but the transit is good here, take the 185 into Scotia Square is only 20 minutes. Why pay 350k for the same house? I'm sure that is what a lot of other people think as well, but land is so widely available the prices in the burbs are so much more inexpensive.
For example if you were to take a bus from bayers lake into Halifax it would take you over half an our, from sackville to Halifax, 20 minutes, so much less time and it's even further away, something is wrong in this city.
And yes, what Keith said is true, there are 0 sidewalks in bayers lake, it is hard even to cross the main street there.

[coolmillion]

Yes, to reiterate Bayer's Lake is a disaster for pedestrians. Since it is the main shopping area for the nearby residential areas (+ thousands more), everyone drives and the traffic is horrendous. It was designed as an industrial park and ended up becoming a commercial shopping area without proper pedestrian upgrades. You could walk, but sidewalks are patchy, you often have to walk across enormous parking lots and the whole area is alienating if you're not in a car. I've seen people on foot struggle over embankments, snow mounds, booting it when the green light doesn't allow enough time to cross. Worst irony - Access Nova Scotia moving out there.

The point is we can do a much better job of planning suburban communities. Panorama just continues with the status quo.

[fenwick16]

Here is a Street View link for the Bayers Lake area - http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=halif...89,-63.674998&spn=0.021616,0.066047&z=15 . It does look like it is too spread out. There is so much rock in these areas; I can understand where the name Rockingham comes from (which is not too far away from the Bayers Lake area and likely has a similar topography).

Maybe the rocky landscape explains why the parking at the Panorama project is above ground (they might not want to disturb the pyritic shale - http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/ibp/irc/cbd/building-digest-152.html ). It makes me wonder why people would want to live in such an inhospitable part of the country . Maybe it has some redeeming qualities?

This Bayers Lake area looks like a moonscape with vegetation (PS: It doesn't really look that bad). As a slight diversion, the movie "Moon" is a great movie for anyone who likes science fiction - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/

(source: http://www.sandyhines.com/shopping.htm)


I have never actually been to the Bayers Lake area. When I moved away to Ontario 30 years ago, I don't think that it existed. Does it look as bad as the Street View images? PS: I don't think that these suburban shopping areas look any better in Ontario, except most of the land in the GTA is flatter and doesn't have so much rock.

[Jstaleness]

It's pretty bad there Fenwick. On one side you have mostly big box and the theater. They are not at grade with the road and most of the road side is rocks or stone wall like the picture shows. The other side is better as it's mostly at grade and the parking area is smaller and the restaurants are roadside giving it better visual appeal.
Bottom line is that it is a horrible experience for a pedestrian. I can't imagine trying to walk from one end to the other with shopping bags. Putting in a sidewalk up Washmill would not encourage many to walk into the park. The Theater and new Best Buy would be the only thing worth the walk.

[fenwick16]

It is too bad that the hydro lines can't be buried and someone should plant some trees (would trees survive in that rock - if not then maybe some bushes). I think this could be an interesting area if some landscaping were done. It seems as though this area needs a landscaping genius to come along and do a major make-over. For anyone who has flown into Las Vegas (only once for me) then miracles can be done with barren land (this Halifax area at least has some vegetation - the city of Las Vegas looks like a city was built on an isolated part of Mars).

In reality the rocky, hilly land could be a plus if planned properly. Flat land can become boring. I have flown into Atlanta before and I think that the Halifax area has some similarities. The Atlanta metro area looks like a series of towns and cities built into a dense forest - it makes for a very interesting, scenic city.

How far outside the city does the rock extend? Is it as rocky on the Dartmouth side?

Although I think the Panorama is a decent condo/apartment(?) complex, I had hoped that a stadium would be built in that area (since people don't want it on the peninsula). It would really stand out from the Bi-Centennial highway. At one time this general area (Halifax Mainland Commons was considered for a stadium, I am not sure why that idea has been abandoned except that maybe most of the available land has been sold for residential developments). This is the view for the Panorama from the Bi-Centennial Highway - http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=halif...56,-63.665557&spn=0.009434,0.066047&z=15

[DigitalNinja]

Dude, they never bury the wires in any new community around here. Really sucks.

[HRM]

All utilities at Ravenscraig are buried. Lots of original greenery left standing. Quite a departure for halifax.

You are obviously basing your statement on developments in Bedford where developers clearcut entire swaths of land then stick little charlie brown trees along streets that have no chance of growing because they are planted on top of crushed rock. Quite pathetic really.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by coolmillion

Worst irony - Access Nova Scotia moving out there.

Whatever bureaucrat made the decision for Access NS to move there truly needs to lose their job. You can't walk there, you can barely get a bus to take you there, and even then, I have seen people get off the bus and have to sprint across 4-lanes of traffic without any crosswalks or sidewalks to get into the place. There's nothing like having to jump across an open gravel ditch to get to or from a govt office.

Bayers Lake is a disaster any way you look at it. Some genius put a Rona at the far end up by Access NS and I dunno how it stays in business as it has zero customers. You have a long stretch between that area and the more dense retail that is nothing but industrial facilities or scrub forest. And as has been said, in the retail area the entire east (?) side is built up on a rise well way from the road. I often see pedestrians dodging vehicles as they walk up the narrow roadway between the SS/NSLC and the Walmart since there is no walkway there at all. But that is consistent with the lack of sidewalks at street level there. Ridiculous.

[fenwick16]

Ravenscraig looks good - http://www.polycorp.ca/ravenscraig/ . Just burying the utilities makes a big difference. Having existing trees makes it even better. It is too bad that the the Bayers Lake Shopping area doesn't look more like this.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Mississauga, Nova Scotia? lol

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Mississauga, Nova Scotia? lol

Mississauga is somewhat like Dartmouth times 10 (except Dartmouth has more lakes and trees). (no offense intended toward Mississaugians or Dartmouthians)

Mississauga has a very impressive skyline now and a population of over 700,000 - however, it will probably always be a bedroom community of Toronto.

[Jonovision]

360-unit apartment project planned for Clayton Park


By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor

A large new four-building rental project is being proposed for Clayton Park West.

Clayton Developments Ltd. , which now owns the 7.7-hectare plot of land on Washmill Lake Drive, is in the process of selling it to veteran developer Peter Giannoulis, who plans to build four 12-storey buildings that will hold a total of 360 two-bedroom rental units, said Peter Greenwood, the company’s vice-president of real estate sales.

“Peter’s a condo and apartment developer who we’ve done a lot of business with," Greenwood said Tuesday.

“He has a very interesting project planned, with four large buildings and . . . a clubhouse (in the centre) designed for the baby boomers who want to rent, as opposed to buying con­dos. . . . It will be a real marquee project, in my opinion."

Greenwood couldn’t put an exact price tag on the entire development.

“I’d be surprised if it’s less than a $50-million project."

The agreement to sell the property to Gian­noulis is slated to close in the next few weeks, Greenwood said. Chebucto community coun­cil has already approved the general lot layout and intent for the development, but Giannou­lis also has to present his four-building project this month to the Halifax watershed advisory board. Once a development agree­ment is negotiated with Halifax Regional Municipality, municipal staffers will have to prepare a report on the project to be pre­sented at community council.

“He has to get this approval (from the city) before he starts construction," said Greenwood, who wouldn’t say what Giannou­lis is paying for the land.

“Most of the multiple sites in Clayton Park and Bedford now are selling in the range of $20,000 per unit," he said. “In this part of Halifax, that would be the normal number."

But Greenwood wouldn’t say if Giannoulis, who couldn’t be reached for comment Tuesday, paid about $7 million for the property.

Clayton Developments hasn’t built its own projects for years, Greenwood said.

“The last project we built prob­ably was Park West Centre, the shopping centre out here at Lace­wood and Dunbrack. We used to build apartment buildings and condo buildings and single-family homes and office buildings and shopping centres. But we haven’t built for many years. We’re just doing the land development now."

The development in question is the largest site on a swathe of land that will eventually hold five projects, Greenwood said.

“There’s one block for 35 town­house units that’s being sold to another developer," he said.

“There’s another site that has 193 units, plus 15,000 square feet of retail."

Two other blocks will each hold another 100 units, Greenwood said.

“Right now, they’re all going to be rental," he said.

Other than the townhouses, “these are high-end, large con­crete apartment buildings."

Giannoulis, who has built and owns several large projects around the city, opened Cana­diana restaurant in 1995 on Lake­lands Boulevard at the edge of the Bayers Lake Business Park.

“He just finished building the new Comfort Hotel, which has just opened (next door to the restaurant)," Greenwood said.

([email protected])

[Jstaleness]

Great! Cause that Comfort Inn is so attractive.

[fenwick16]

The total of all 5 blocks will be close to 800 dwellings (actually 788 total) - about 1600 people in a relatively small area. I see this as a step towards higher urban density. Although having more people on the peninsula is a good goal, these developments are close to Halifax and aren't contributing to urban sprawl. It will also contain several thousand square feet of retail.

Originally Posted by Jonovision

360-unit apartment project planned for Clayton Park


By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor

A large new four-building rental project is being proposed for Clayton Park West.

Clayton Developments Ltd. , which now owns the 7.7-hectare plot of land on Washmill Lake Drive, is in the process of selling it to veteran developer Peter Giannoulis, who plans to build four 12-storey buildings that will hold a total of 360 two-bedroom rental units, said Peter Greenwood, the company’s vice-president of real estate sales.
.
.
.

The development in question is the largest site on a swathe of land that will eventually hold five projects, Greenwood said.

“There’s one block for 35 town­house units that’s being sold to another developer," he said.

“There’s another site that has 193 units, plus 15,000 square feet of retail."

Two other blocks will each hold another 100 units, Greenwood said.

“Right now, they’re all going to be rental," he said.

Other than the townhouses, “these are high-end, large con­crete apartment buildings."
.
.
.

[lawsond]

Great! Cause that Comfort Inn is so attractive.

Ha! My thoughts exactly. Looks like this developer just rattles around the suburbs coughing up ugly, slab boxes like fur balls.
But you know, suburbs are the same everywhere. Halifax just has unfortunate geology. The rocks just make it look more dreary and bleak.