HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Hamilton > General Discussion


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2009, 7:33 PM
oldcoote's Avatar
oldcoote oldcoote is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by realcity View Post
Jackson Sq clinic is wednesday
Details?
__________________
There are no great cities in the world that are easy to drive through.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2009, 8:04 PM
highwater highwater is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcoote View Post
Details?
http://www.thespec.com/article/630464
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2009, 2:57 AM
adam adam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Downtown Hamilton
Posts: 1,231
BrianE, you are correct that the amount of mercury in the vaccine is so small it would not affect most people. Apparently, Public Health Canada says the quantity of mercury in the vaccine is less than that of a can of tuna fish. However, the site says that both types of vaccines (in Canada) contain thimerosal. Here is the Public Health Canada FAQ: http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-ale...g_h1n1-eng.php )

However, I encourage everyone to read: http://www.montrealgazette.com/healt...715/story.html
According to the article, Canada Health approved the vaccine without doing any clinical trials of their own but has claimed that it is safe to take based on a small clinical trial done in Belgium. This doesn't sound very safe to me.

Some other information I found while researching:
- Annually, the flu causes 250,000 to 500,000 deaths worldwide each year.
- H1N1 has caused 5,850 as of Oct 21st this year.
- Countries in the southern hemisphere have already finished their flu season for this year and there was no indication of any pandemic.



Please, if anyone can refute what I presented above, I'd like you to post the info. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2009, 11:40 AM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is offline
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,304
One thing that is certain, H1N1 can kill even at non-risk people...

http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/661126
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2009, 12:56 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is offline
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,304
Outbreaks 'spike' at city schools
Elementary grades hardest hit as students stay home with flu symptoms

October 27, 2009
Naomi Powell
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/660980

Nearly one-third of local public schools are battling respiratory outbreaks as the second wave of H1N1 influenza sweeps Hamilton.

Public health officials have identified outbreaks in 32 of 114 schools in the Hamilton-Wentworth District School Board, with all but one at elementary schools.

Twenty-eight of the outbreaks have been declared since the beginning of last week, as schools reported a surge in the number of students absent with flu-like symptoms.

"The outbreaks are across the city; there is no specific geographical area where it's happening," said Jackie Penman, spokesperson for the public school board.

"We only had one or two schools prior to last week and then it definitely spiked."

Outbreaks were also declared at six of the 57 schools in Hamilton's Catholic school board yesterday, down from nine schools on Friday.

Those numbers are expected to change as absences grow among secondary students, said Jackie Bajus, superintendent of education for the board.

"It's definitely starting to hit the older kids," she said.

Meanwhile, emergency rooms were "inundated" with people experiencing flu symptoms over the weekend, said Bill Krizmanich, chief of emergency medicine at Hamilton Health Sciences. The flood of patients is straining emergency departments and driving wait times higher.

People experiencing mild symptoms should call their family doctors and only use emergency rooms if they are severely ill, he said.

"We still have to maintain our responsibility to treat all those patients who don't have flu."

Hamilton's public health department is notified when more than 5 per cent of students in a school stay home with flu-like symptoms such as coughing, sore throat, runny nose, body aches, headaches, chills and fever.

Public health then monitors the school for several days, looking for signs of ongoing transmission, before declaring an outbreak.

The public health department isn't testing for the H1N1 virus in every school, but there's "a good chance" it's behind most of the respiratory outbreaks, said Dr. Chris Mackie, Hamilton's associate medical officer of health.

"I'll put it this way -- we haven't identified any outbreaks that aren't pandemic H1N1," he said.

One school in the public board reported 30 per cent of its students absent, though some may have been kept home for other reasons or as a preventive measure, said John Forbeck, superintendent of staff and community engagement. He declined to identify the school.

In Halton as of yesterday, 23 of the region's 140 Catholic and public schools had at least 5 per cent of students away following a dramatic increase last week, said Dr. Bob Nosal, Halton's medical officer of health. Nine schools reported 10 per cent or more of their students absent with flu-like symptoms, he added.

The first wave of H1N1 arrived in Halton in the spring, hitting Oakville schools first before spreading to Burlington. This time, the virus is scattered throughout the region, Nosal said, causing the most illness in Burlington schools.

In Hamilton, letters are sent home advising parents that a school has more than 5 per cent absenteeism and reminding them of needed precautions. Halton isn't declaring outbreaks so no letters are sent home.

The Hamilton and Halton school boards have arranged additional daily cleaning in schools with specific instructions to disinfect surfaces. The public board also called a special meeting of principals yesterday to review flu protocols.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2009, 1:20 PM
BrianE's Avatar
BrianE BrianE is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam View Post
BrianE, you are correct that the amount of mercury in the vaccine is so small it would not affect most people. Apparently, Public Health Canada says the quantity of mercury in the vaccine is less than that of a can of tuna fish. However, the site says that both types of vaccines (in Canada) contain thimerosal. Here is the Public Health Canada FAQ: http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-ale...g_h1n1-eng.php )

However, I encourage everyone to read: http://www.montrealgazette.com/healt...715/story.html
According to the article, Canada Health approved the vaccine without doing any clinical trials of their own but has claimed that it is safe to take based on a small clinical trial done in Belgium. This doesn't sound very safe to me.

Some other information I found while researching:
- Annually, the flu causes 250,000 to 500,000 deaths worldwide each year.
- H1N1 has caused 5,850 as of Oct 21st this year.
- Countries in the southern hemisphere have already finished their flu season for this year and there was no indication of any pandemic.



Please, if anyone can refute what I presented above, I'd like you to post the info. Thanks.
Certainly, from the very same Montreal Gazette article that you posted.

"Data from a clinical trial conducted in Belgium, using the same version of the vaccine produced by GSK in Dresden, Germany, was reviewed, as was initial safety data from European and Japanese studies using the Quebec-produced vaccine Arepanrix," Health Canada spokeswoman Christelle Legault said in an e-mail

So... not just data from Belgium after all.

Aglukkaq said Health Canada approved the vaccine ahead of the initial target of early November because "the international community was able to share their clinical data and work with us."

If you think that Canadians are somehow physiologicaly different than other human beings then I got news for you... we're not. Rigorous studies performed by other countries are a perfectly valid source of information, to ignore scientific data just because it's not Canadian is rediculous and irresponsible at the least.

Quote:
- Annually, the flu causes 250,000 to 500,000 deaths worldwide each year.
- H1N1 has caused 5,850 as of Oct 21st this year.
- Countries in the southern hemisphere have already finished their flu season for this year and there was no indication of any pandemic.
Where do you get your numbers? between 250 000 and 500 000 deaths? A standard error of 100%.... nice and accurate. Here's a great link from an anti vaccine site that you probably have read that argues annual flu deaths are one big lie... nothing to worry about at all only 753 people died from the flu in 2002. The CDC estimates 36000 btw, I'll bet last year before H1N1 hit you were down playing the 36000 number in order to convince people not to get the regular flu shot. Now you're hyper inflating the 36000 deaths into 500 000 per year to justify not getting the H1N1 shot. Nice.

The chief concern over swine flu is that it has a tendancy to affect the young and healthy disproportionately when compared to the regular flu. If you don't find that concerning, I must further question your grip on reality. Healthy people don't die from the usual influenza.

Yes, 5850 is a low number but I also look at other factors, for example. Of the number of pregnant women who had to go to the hospital due to Swine flu complications, 30% died. Sure, that's a percentage of a percentage of the population but come on man.... this is very concerning stuff.

Oh and btw. So far the number of deaths as a direct result of flu vaccinations still stands at 0. Let me know when that number starts to creep up to 5850.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2009, 5:24 PM
realcity's Avatar
realcity realcity is offline
Bruatalism gets no respec
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Williamsville NY
Posts: 4,059
this is what pisses me off with Canada and drugs. We let the US FDA do all the testing, use on their population then years later Canada says it must be safe.

All to save money. But could you imagine the jobs created in research if Canada decided to test pharma drugs with our own labs.

I'm not making this up, I worked in pharma for years. Canada has the lowest rate of R&D jobs in the developed world.


@Adam... I'm not surprised Canada didn't do its own testing... this is normal for most drugs in Canada.

Our only own Canadian drug co. is Apotex which only makes generics after the patents expired. Our GlaxoSmithKlines etc are foreign branch plants with R&D done in their company of origin.
__________________
Height restrictions and Set-backs are for Nimbys and the suburbs.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2009, 9:34 PM
adam adam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Downtown Hamilton
Posts: 1,231
What kind of study quality could we expect from a lab that gets paid by the drug company that owns the rights to the vaccine?

Also I am not sure why H1N1 is being reported as a "pandemic" when well under 3,000 people have died from it worldwide. South America, Australia and all other countries in the southern hemisphere have finished their flu season for 2009. There was no pandemic in any of these countries for 2009.

Last edited by adam; Oct 27, 2009 at 9:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2009, 10:07 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,243
I think a far, far, far greater percentage of young people are in high risk groups than are believed. Most of the "healthy" children that have died from H1N1 probably had asthma or something and didn't know it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2009, 12:26 AM
BrianE's Avatar
BrianE BrianE is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 352
Aaaaaannnd here we go. The last refuge of the anti vaccine kook.

'We can't trust any data that contradicts my insane position because a pharmaceutical company paid to do quality control and quality assurance on their own product'

or

Big pharma stands to make a profit on vaccines therefore any pro vaccine data that comes out must be made up or biased in some way.

How you even get up in the morning astounds me since EVERYTHING you touch or eat or drive in is tested by.... yes that's right! the very same company that produced that product in conjunction with government regulatory agencies. Just like any pharmaceutical or vaccine.

Also consider this. A single dose of vaccine costs a few dollars to make and drug companies do make a profit on them. But this profit pales in comparision to the money they could make from mass amounts of people being hospitalised by the disease that the vaccine was made for. If you think that they wouldn't make a ton more money on treating sick patients for days at a time in a hospital. I would again question your grip on reality.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2009, 12:29 AM
BrianE's Avatar
BrianE BrianE is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
I think a far, far, far greater percentage of young people are in high risk groups than are believed. Most of the "healthy" children that have died from H1N1 probably had asthma or something and didn't know it.
'I think'

'probably'

'or something'

Really??? You want to back up those lame statements with some evidence?

Because I've got some

Public health officials confirmed that the sudden death of 13-year-old Evan Frustaglio was a direct result of swine flu. The Toronto teen, an avid hockey player with no known health conditions, was taken to a walk-in clinic Sunday and advised to take over-the-counter medications. He appeared to be recovering yesterday, but collapsed later in the day and died within 10 minutes.

On Saturday, 10-year-old Vanetia Warner of Cornwall, Ont., also died from H1N1 under similar circumstances; she was sick for several days before her condition rapidly deteriorated
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2009, 1:48 AM
highwater highwater is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,555
Great article on vaccinations:

http://www.nycskeptics.org/blog/?p=1078
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2009, 2:21 AM
matt602's Avatar
matt602 matt602 is offline
Hammer'd
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 4,800
Apparently my girlfriend was sick, got tested and showed positive for H1N1 by her doctor. This was about a week ago and I haven't gotten sick but if I do, I'm hitting up the doctor and mentioning it.
__________________
"Above all, Hamilton must learn to think like a city, not a suburban hybrid where residents drive everywhere. What makes Hamilton interesting is the fact it's a city. The sprawl that surrounds it, which can be found all over North America, is running out of time."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2009, 3:18 AM
emge's Avatar
emge emge is offline
Needs more coffee...
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 837
Now that I know the vaccine clinics are at Jackson I think I will get one after all.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2009, 1:17 PM
Zaz's Avatar
Zaz Zaz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 62
I have communicated the following at work, after hearing a similar discussion:

Team,

I don't want to impose or start a discussion, but on behalf of all parents with small children, I would like to encourage everyone to get the H1N1 vaccine at your first available opportunity.

We all have our doubts, but after 2 strong healthy kids collapsed and died as a direct consequence of H1N1 last weekend, let's put our favorite conspiracy theories to rest and get it done.

Thanks team! )
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2009, 1:24 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,243
In the case of that boy that died this week, they found he had asthma that the parents did not know about (and flat out denied). That is probably the case in many, many other people as well.

As a result, I recommend that EVERYONE - except for those allergic to the products in the vaccination and infants under 6 months of age - get it as soon as possible. It can be hard for even doctors to know what you may and may not have.

Personally, I would have classified anyone under 18 - not under 6 - as highest risk.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2009, 1:33 PM
highwater highwater is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Personally, I would have classified anyone under 18 - not under 6 - as highest risk.
I agree. They're dropping like flies in the schools. But I guess they couldn't roll the vaccine out fast enough to cover such a large population. Our family will definitely be getting vaccinated asap.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2009, 1:36 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by highwater View Post
I agree. They're dropping like flies in the schools. But I guess they couldn't roll the vaccine out fast enough to cover such a large population. Our family will definitely be getting vaccinated asap.
Especially when even doctors have a hard time diagnosing underlying medical conditions such as asthma...for all we know, you and I could have things we don't know about...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2009, 1:40 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is offline
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,304
Yet kids aren't on the high risk list. Guess they'll have to wait sometime next week.

For me I work at a hospital and a school so I could get the vaccine but I'll wait it out for others to get theirs first. I'm a germaphobe and I probably haven't had a flu in nearly 5 years or so *knock on wood*
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2009, 1:59 PM
highwater highwater is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Especially when even doctors have a hard time diagnosing underlying medical conditions such as asthma...for all we know, you and I could have things we don't know about...
...or in my case, things we know perfectly well about but are in denial. Maybe my 4 year old and I won't wait till next week.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Hamilton > General Discussion
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:51 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.