Decisions, decisions... Transformation of city's fortunes, image on the line

[SteelTown]

Tracks represent a permanent fixed line, meaning long-term potential customers. A condo development building next to the line will know that the LRT line will stay there for a very long period of time. Same for a retail shop.

For BRT it can change and move to other route lines. That’s why LRT has a greater economic spin-off compared to BRT.

[emge]

The links should say it all -- I know the lack of noise and smoothness of ride also matter to me.

And all the aforementioned: permanence, image, investment. It takes a certain mindset to invest in LRT.

BRT contra-flow just has all sorts of horrible accident scenarios going through my mind - far more than any cars "not understanding" an LRT line.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by Zaz

I am curious, purely from the utility perspective, what are the disadvantages of an express bus service, as opposed to LRT? I think LRT is sexy, but does it give enough bang for the buck, compared to long buses running on dedicated or partially dedicated lanes? Why are tracks a must?

My comment really has nothing to do with any preference, I don't care what we get. But many in the city are hoping for LRT because it signals a long term commitment to transit and specific routes.

I am just cynical citizen stating my opinion. By the way that cynicism is born from my experiences of this city getting it's hopes up over and over only to be let down each and every time. I have no doubt it will happen again with LRT.

[Zaz]

I am on board with the image and perception of permanence arguments. Thank you all for clarifications.

[SteelTown]

You can pretty much count on a Pan Am bid victory now.

[adam]

In my few years living in Hamilton,

1. I've experienced a lot of negativity:
The majority coming from long-term residents. Some have denied that any project will happen and they have put down every single improvement. I think its because the last 30 years or so in Hamilton have been very rough.

2. I've seen many improvements and turn-arounds:
- the waterfront has improved 100%,
- farmer's market and library renewal is in progress,
- the addition of bike lanes and 2-way conversion of York Blvd,
- James St North went from a no-man's land to a wonderful arts destination,
- smaller 2-way street conversions,
- city hall renewal,
- a billionaire take interest in our city for an NHL team,
- grassroots LRT support and government support. Heck, even the Ancaster councillor Lloyd Ferguson is supporting LRT.

Of course not every project started or proposed is going to happen. This is the way it is, not just for Hamilton, but all cities. Besides, most of these things are already in the works.

It doesn't do any good to keep bringing up the last 30 years, things are improving all the time, you could always move to another city, or you could help things move along by staying positive.

[Duckyboy]

Originally Posted by adam

In my few years living in Hamilton,

1. I've experienced a lot of negativity:
The majority coming from long-term residents. Some have denied that any project will happen and they have put down every single improvement. I think its because the last 30 years or so in Hamilton have been very rough.

2. I've seen many improvements and turn-arounds:
- the waterfront has improved 100%,
- farmer's market and library renewal is in progress,
- the addition of bike lanes and 2-way conversion of York Blvd,
- James St North went from a no-man's land to a wonderful arts destination,
- smaller 2-way street conversions,
- city hall renewal,
- a billionaire take interest in our city for an NHL team,
- grassroots LRT support and government support. Heck, even the Ancaster councillor Lloyd Ferguson is supporting LRT.

Of course not every project started or proposed is going to happen. This is the way it is, not just for Hamilton, but all cities. Besides, most of these things are already in the works.

It doesn't do any good to keep bringing up the last 30 years, things are improving all the time, you could always move to another city, or you could help things move along by staying positive.

You're last line reminded me of something that my friend (a staunch Hamilton supporter: Glen, The Hamilton Kid) told me not too long ago. We were having a few beers at his place, talking about the city and how people move away and whatnot.

And he said: You can move to where you think the grass is greener, or you can stay and grow your own.

This made a lot of sense to me and I've tried to use it whenever I get a little fed up with the dirt-bags and low-lifes in my neighborhood.

Sounds pretty hippy-dippy, I know... but I don't really care.

-Ryan

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by adam

It doesn't do any good to keep bringing up the last 30 years, things are improving all the time, you could always move to another city, or you could help things move along by staying positive.

I edited out most of your comments because I don't disagree with you, there is alot of negativity, and there has been a few positives over the last few years.

However, those few positives don't even come close to making up for all that this city has lost in the last 30 years. This city has been taking one step forward and two steps back for most of the last 30 years, so those few positives just don't cut it.

Lifelong residents of this city have heard it all over the years, we have been promised alot and gotten little. So you will have to excuse us for being a little skeptical when it comes to promises and announcements about the next big deal that will get the city out of this funk we are in. Whats the old saying, talk is cheap, show me the money.

[adam]

You can move to where the grass is greener, or you can stay and grow your own. Great way to look at it.

But really there have been a ton of improvements in the city in just the past few years. It takes a really depressed or pessimistic person to not see this.

A few more changes I've noticed in the few short years I've lived here: Ottawa St and Locke St are both moving up in the world (in their own ways). The General Hospital now has a world class cardiac research centre next to it, HECFI now attracts world class acts, the gaudy strip bar next to Gore Park closed down and is or will be condos, Gore Park is getting a makeover soon, etc, the list goes on and on.. what more do you want??

[Blurr]

I think the sooner citizens stop thinking this as a manufacturing town the faster moral will improve.

clumping the last 30 years together isn't useful analysis because the economic make up from then to now is completely different.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by adam

You can move to where the grass is greener, or you can stay and grow your own. Great way to look at it.

But really there have been a ton of improvements in the city in just the past few years. It takes a really depressed or pessimistic person to not see this.

A few more changes I've noticed in the few short years I've lived here: Ottawa St and Locke St are both moving up in the world (in their own ways). The General Hospital now has a world class cardiac research centre next to it, HECFI now attracts world class acts, the gaudy strip bar next to Gore Park closed down and is or will be condos, Gore Park is getting a makeover soon, etc, the list goes on and on.. what more do you want??

It's not a matter of being depressed or pessimistic, it's just skeptism or better yet cautious optimism. We have been burned so many times, we are afraid to put ourselves near the fire anymore.

As for Locke and Ottawa Sts they have always been thriving commercial areas. Ottawa St always had the fabric stores, it was widely known for that. It's just been in the last 10 years or so that they have suffered some economic hard times. They are currently reinventing themselves. Locke St has always been a thriving commercial area as well, before the antique stores there were the small family owned shops selling a variety of merchandise. There was even a movie theater there at one time. That building is still there and being used for something else.

For Gore park, this will be the third makeover in the last 30 years. The sad thing is the original was just fine. If they had have left it alone then they wouldn't be wasting even more money to make it over again. Thats one of the problems in this city, we just don't know when to leave things alone sometimes.

HECFI has always attracted world class entertainment so that is nothing new.

The investment in the hospitals is nothing new either. We are a regional centre for healthcare serving over 2 million. Thats not a new role for this city.

Originally Posted by Blurr

I think the sooner citizens stop thinking this as a manufacturing town the faster moral will improve.

clumping the last 30 years together isn't useful analysis because the economic make up from then to now is completely different.

Most long term residents have never given the loss of manufacturing a second thought. That point of view usually comes from outsiders who know nothing about the city other than what they read or hear from people who are outsiders as well.

The economic makeup of the city really hasn't changed much over the last thirty years. The numbers are still somewhat the same as far as what people in this city do for a living. The only difference being is that now people have to travel to Burlington, our industrial suburb, or a little further down the road to get to work. There has to be a benchmark or a basis for comparison, thirty years seems like a reasonable time period. The decline started at about that time, especially in the downtown, so it isn't unreasonable to want to get back to that point and build from there.

[adam]

I wasn't aware that the thousands of people who were employed in Hamilton's steel industry 30 yrs ago are now working in similar jobs in Burlington.

I give up on you, but I haven't given up on Hamilton.

[SteelTown]

X National Hockey League
✓ Pam Am Games
? Light rail transit