Frontier Centre touts water export: Manitoba could earn $1B

[vid]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I would point out that Thunder Bay wouldn't exist if people hadn't messed with "the environment". And the world would have been much the poorer for it.

How would we not exist?

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by vid

How would we not exist?

There would just be trees, moose, black flies, rock outcrops and swamps there. The difference from the current reality would therefore be small but nonetheless noticeable to the discerning observer.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by drew

This guy is on crack, and anyone who thinks this idea is even remotely economically feasible is smoking the same stuff.

Look at the most important factor:

A 630 mile (1000km) UNDERGROUND LARGE diameter insulated pipeline through some of the most inhospitable and remote terrain on earth. The construction costs required to build this would be astronomical.

Ontario won't even twin the trans-Canada highway through this terrain, and yet, this guy figures we can build a more technically challenging pipeline through it?

Once we build the pipeline, who is going to pay the premium on the water we will need to charge just to get it to the border? Who down south needs it THAT bad?

are you aware of the trans canada pipe line?

[vid]

You know what? We should cut down all our trees and sell those too! Then we can strip the earth bare and sell the minerals!

MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!!!!

[drew]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

are you aware of the trans canada pipe line?

Yes. But gas is a very different animal than water.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

are you aware of the trans canada pipe line?

Are you saying that because there are underground pipelines (who have bad track records of bursting/eroding away and causing massive underground plume contaminations, that we should start doing the same with water?

I hope not..............

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by drew

Yes. But gas is a very different animal than water.

true considering theres hydrolics involved.............. and its being pumped up hill......
and does the organization even know about our water source?

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

Are you saying that because there are underground pipelines (who have bad track records of bursting/eroding away and causing massive underground plume contaminations, that we should start doing the same with water?

I hope not..............

just saying it can be done lol but why would we again

[The Jabroni]

I seriously hope this would never happen. I mean, it's already happening in BC, and most people don't even know about it.

[vid]

Re: The pipe lines: The gas is shipped from one source. In the case of water, there is no single source that could yield so much water (except for Lake Winnipeg I guess) so multiple pipe lines or pumping stations would have to be run all over the province. It would be a logistical nightmare.

It's America's fault for building in the deserts in the first place.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Really? They can just build a pipeline anywhere, without regard to Canadian law? No Canadian could build a water pipeline from the Mackenzie River to southern Canada, so how could NAFTA give an American the right to build one to the U.S.?

pehaps my example was a bit extreme, but you are missing the point...currently water is not sold as a commodity in canada....if water is sold in bulk across the border it immediately falls under NAFTA trade guidelines, which opens it up all kinds of legal challenges that will inevitably lead to us losing control of our water supply...it is very easy to make a "trade discrimination" argument once one side has begun selling it....

once canada allows water to be diverted outside its borders, foreign investors must be given the same “national treatment” as canadian companies and the needs of americans will be treated as equal to the needs of canadians.

this scenario has already come close to fruition in BC and NFLD, both times killed by public pressure...the americans know eventually the hammer will drop though...its why NAFTA is just sketchy enough on the subject to allow legal challenge when it finally does happen.

here is a good history of the water trade issue:

http://www.powi.ca/pdfs/events/powi2..._Diversion.pdf

and an interesting link to the NCPA:

http://www.ncpa.org/pd/trade/pd012799f.html

an example is our energy exports...we are currently unable to reduce our exports of energy to the U.S. under NAFTA, no matter what the circumstance in our own country and no matter how much they need or waste.....the same would happen to water if it was commodified...

suggesting that our failsafe is to cripple our economy and walk from NAFTA is ridiculous...how bad would the situation have to get before that was the best solution.

[Reed Solomon]

wow the frontier centre.

they're on the frontier!

I bet they're in favour of bill C-61, the bill that pretends to stop piracy but just lets american corporations sue everyone, and doesn't let you use what you buy the way you like.

I'm against exporting water. Let the bastards throats parch.

[h0twired]

How much is Manitoba's soul going for these days?

[Archiseek]

a box of timbits

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by h0twired

How much is Manitoba's soul going for these days?

Probably not much more than Alberta's over the last 20-30 years or so

Anyways, I doubt this will happen, thankfully.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

Probably not much more than Alberta's over the last 20-30 years or so

Anyways, I doubt this will happen, thankfully.

Why do people equate selling water with stuff like "souls" and drape what is an ordinary commodity transaction in all sorts of quasi-religious mystical language? No goes off on these New Age religious tangents when it comes to selling "our" oil or "our" nickel -- is it because water is seen as pure and cleansing while mucky black oil or stinky natural gas aren't sufficiently holy? Maybe it's because, having anthropomorphized rocks, bush and moose into "ecosystems", the thought of draining the water out of them brings back ancient psychological fears about bloodletting in human beings.

As far as I can see, Manitoba has a lot of water and it could easily spare some of it to the benefit of everyone involved. If on closer investigation there turned out to be a serious environmental concern about doing so, or if it just wasn't economical, then there would be no need to proceed. But talk of "souls" should not enter into the discussion.

[Reed Solomon]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Why do people equate selling water with stuff like "souls" and drape what is an ordinary commodity transaction in all sorts of quasi-religious mystical language?

Commoditising water usage is like commoditising the air we breathe. As Canadians, privatizing water resources and wasting it should disgust us. In Africa, part of the problem with water rights is that farmers are restricted from bettering themselves because water rights are so heavily regulated by foreign companies.

We have a lot of water, we should strive to keep it in Canada and keep it relatively free (in terms of freedom) and maintain the environment we have.

[Reed Solomon]

dupe

[Geebrr]

Originally Posted by Reed Solomon

Commoditising water usage is like commoditising the air we breathe. As Canadians, privatizing water resources and wasting it should disgust us. In Africa, part of the problem with water rights is that farmers are restricted from bettering themselves because water rights are so heavily regulated by foreign companies.

We have a lot of water, we should strive to keep it in Canada and keep it relatively free (in terms of freedom) and maintain the environment we have.

Well put.