How to fix Hamilton's downtown

[the dude]

Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit

Cities require eyes on the street as Jane Jacobs suggests. More policing of high crime areas is only going to make things better for everyone and that includes the homeless and the unemployed. If they are acting as good citizens then what do they have to be afraid of?

careful not to misquote jacobs. she was referring to the eyes of citizens, not necessarily those of the police or private security, for that matter.

for the record, i've always supported having cops walk the beat. recently, i've noticed more cops downtown [might just be my imagination] and i like it. their presence is enough to deter the actions of most criminals. but we must define what constitutes criminal behaviour. being homeless or poor is not a crime. also, public urination, while against the law and unpleasant, has to be accepted in a city where public washrooms are few and far between.

and the suggestion that if you're a law-abiding citizen you have nothing to fear is bs. innocent people are fingered for crimes every day. protesting the actions of the state or the police puts you at serious risk in our world of cctv. heaven forbid you fit a police profile and you're caught on cctv at the wrong place at the wrong time. it happens and it ain't pretty.

[highwater]

Actually, I think removing the grass from Gore Park would be a good thing. Non-native turf grass of the type that's currently found in the Gore does little more for the environment than asphalt. When the soil is as hard and compacted as it is now, you get similar run off, not to mention the mowing, fertilizing, etc. James Kunstler refers to these types of 'greenspaces' as meaningless abstractions, and I agree. Socially, aesthetically, and environmentally, patches of bare turf grass are devoid of content. Grass belongs in large urban parks like Gage Park and Victoria Park. You need a certain amount of square footage per person in order to avoid trampling and soil compaction, and the Gore just isn't large enough to provide the amount of space needed to maintain 'healthy' turf for the numbers of people that congregate there, and the increased numbers we would like to see in the future. (I put 'healthy' in quotes because there's nothing particulary healthy about expanses of non-native turf grass IMO.)

You don't need grass to have a people-friendly place. Think of all those paved piazzas in Europe with nary a blade in sight. Attractive hard landscaping with lots of seating and beds with native shrubs and grasses would be better for the environment, much more attractive and interesting to look at, and if properly designed, much more conducive to social interaction.

[hamiltonguy]

Most of the suggestions are good except for the grass thing. I especially like the charity metres.

[HAMRetrofit]

Originally Posted by the dude

careful not to misquote Jacobs. she was referring to the eyes of citizens, not necessarily those of the police or private security

I was not misquoting Jacobs, even she recognized the importance of police presence. She was a booster of street presence of police officers in Toronto. To quote Jane Jacobs:

"The first thing to understand is that the public peace-the sidewalk and street peace-of cities is not kept primarily by the police, necessary as police are"

Citizens and police work together to keep the streets safe. Private security supports the police.

Originally Posted by the dude

but we must define what constitutes criminal behavior. being homeless or poor is not a crime. also, public urination, while against the law and unpleasant, has to be accepted in a city where public washrooms are few and far between.

Criminal behavior is clearly defined by the law. Public urination is against the law and is a crime regardless of the availability of public washrooms. It does not need to be accepted by other citizens at all. I should not have to endure public urination anymore than I have to endure people speeding on city streets. Accepting this behavior will do nothing to boost the dignity of your community.

Originally Posted by the dude

innocent people are fingered for crimes every day.

Possibly true but this figure is significantly pale in comparison to the criminals that are removed from the streets. If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time 99% of the time there is a reason for that. Living in New York my life was saved on a couple occasions because of the presence of police surveillance. I recognize its importance as a good citizen that willingly decides to live in the city.

[the dude]

i don't know how to multi-quote...

in terms of the jacob's quote, i agree completely and i don't think it contradicts what i said, though i appologize for suggesting you misquoted her. jacob's main consideration was community involvement and secondarily with the police.

generally, i have an issue with security guards because they answer to their employer only. the police answer to us; at least that's the way it's supposed to be.

i've never actually seen anyone piss in the street, though i have no doubt that it happens. provide more washrooms and the problem goes away. instead of treating the homeless as criminals, let's provide them with the necessities of life which have been denied to them. yes, some will refuse but most will accept the help if the result is a clean, safe environment.