Howcome the crime, poverty, and decay ends at the city limits.

[Kenneth]

Ha! from what I have been seeing, crime has found every corner of the country. Sometimes being wealthy invites certain crimes like stress,(because stress kills), which in return causes upper class citizens to committe murder and larceny. Thats why alot of these people are on drugs or just wigged out their minds.

[Downtown Bolivar]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

I did not know about that. Kenmore and Amherst border very stable and nice areas of inner city Buffalo. So that is interesting if crime is spilling over.

But even on the east side, which has Buffalo's worst neighbourhoods, the decay and crime has not seemed to seep into Cheektowaga or anything like that.

That's because the Cheektovegas police aren't very nice to people from Buffalo. But there's definitely tranisition zones there, especially at night.

I see your point though. Another example on a smaller scale is moving from Highland Avenue in Niagara Falls, NY to the Deveaux section. It's only really separated by a railroad viaduct. Again move from North Main street into Deveaux, once again under a railroad viaduct and the same thing happens. In fact Deveaux is litterally surrounded by the Niagara River gorge on one side and largely housing projects, rough neighborhoods and abandonded industry. It's definitely night and day and I'm not sure the reasons. In fact outside of Cayuga Island, Deveux is Niagara Falls' last great neighborhood. Hyde Park, LaSalle, and Downtown(4th Street and vicinity) have all fallen victim to creeping blight and poverty. There are nice areas, but there are definitely transition zones.

[ColDayMan]

What a weird subject. In Cincinnati, there are suburbs that make even the worst areas of Cincinnati look like Malibu (talking to YOU Lockland, Lincoln Heights, and Woodlawn).

Originally Posted by miketoronto

How have the inner suburbs that border the nations cities, escaped for the most part, the decay, crime, and poverty of the inner city?

In most cities the city limits are like a wall between the bad and good.

This coming from a Torontonian. How are Toronto's inner suburbs any better off than its inner-city? Last time I checked, Jane and Finch, Rexdale, and Malvern are known to be among the roughest parts of Toronto, and they are in the inner suburbs, not the inner city. Other than Regent Park, St. Jamestown, and maybe Parkdale, what ghettos does inner-city Toronto even have?

I suspect you're not making the correct distinction between inner city and central city. Inner city deals with urban form (grid pattern, mixed-use streets, etc.) and central city is the central municipality, based on political boundaries. Scarborough and North York may be in the central city, but they are not in the inner city. Calgary has all of its development within a central city. Does that mean it has no suburbs?

[arbeiter]

Originally Posted by Chicago3rd

YOu see it in Chicago and you are going south and there is decay and you hit the city limits and there is still decay. It appears to be antidotical. It doesn't happen in Seattle, San Antonio, Portland, San Francisco, Oakland or Denver either.

Well, Seattle hits some pretty dicey suburban areas near Tukwila/Federal Way, but otherwise you're right. But the grit and poverty starts IN seattle and bleeds over the city limits.

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

How have the inner suburbs that border the nations cities, escaped for the most part, the decay, crime, and poverty of the inner city?

Have you spent any time in the Meth Belt?

[Jeff_in_Dayton]

Drexel!

[westak]

Originally Posted by Chicago3rd

It would be interesting to hear how Oak Park does keep the nasty stuff from spilling over into it from Chicago's Austin neighborhood. It is almost night and day.

It can still be sketchy on the Oak Park side of Austin Blvd. Also, while Austin isn't the greatest neighborhood, it's not exactly Englewood.

[shappy]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

I know not all borders are like that.

But it is interesting how this has happened in a number of cities. Again not all borders. But in some it makes you wonder how they stopped the decline from going over the city limit.

isn't this true for neighbourhoods as well? You have good neighbourhoods bordering bad neighbourhoods all the time. This entire concept is a very loaded sociological phenomenon.

[arbeiter]

Why must we ask a generalized question which is obviously not always true? It's partially true, partially untrue. Therefore it's hardly worth describing.

[alleystreetindustry]

atlanta is going to be reversed within 15-20 years. at this rate all the middle class+ are moving back in, renovating the city's bungalows and manors. our crime is going down significantly, and almost all of the "decay" is flipped into lofts or torn down and replaced.

but for the past: transportation, racism, and white flight destroyed atlanta. all of the middle class on up moved out for "suburban luxury". during this time industry (or the business that managed to exist after most bottomed out) existed only in the city (of which most of the workers were lower class). office space then followed its employees to office parks. this is why atlanta was described as a doughnut, because everything happened outside the city. during this time, marta was denied access to major counties such as gwinnett and cobb. basically because (in that time) a majority of the citizens didn't want the crime and poverty to come into their neighborhoods (and being racist they associated this with the lower class african americans of the city). so there we have poverty (unemployed and lower class workers), decay, and crime (which is almost in every case associated with lower class citizens). all of which is going to be [almost] inexistent in atlanta within the coming years.

[Strayone]

Decay and poverty are obviously more centralized in cities, it goes without saying. Nobody moves their family to the burbs to live in a slum, the American Dream calls for a 3k sq ft Cookie Cutter Custom. I'm not sure about the crime element, people are more likely to live in smaller rentals and older apts. closer in that are cheaper to afford, I'm not referring to upscale condo living more likely the fringe DT areas that are left to rot . And simple numbers show more people more bad things happen. A better analysis would be crimes per capita. I live in the north central area of town and have never considered it to be in decay or crime ridden and there is alot of rental property, but the area is fairly high priced. Sure some areas are questionable in certain areas but it really comes down to what the local government is willing to do to police areas with the customary inner city crimes such as drugs and gang like activity. It is sad for an urban thinking person to see the core of many metro areas are plagued with these issues, since we really hope for diverse and robust central development. The exciting aspect is that the future will hopefully attract people to live more centralized and areas that are in question will turn over thus becoming a safer and more attractive alternative to the burbs. One day the inner poverty ridden areas will become a very sought after locale, and also again sadly very expensive.

[Echo Park]

Hmm...South Gate, Vernon, Lynwood, Maywood, Compton, Fontana, Colton...

not sure this thread was well thought out.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by Echo Park

not sure this thread was well thought out.

Welcome to the half-baked world of miketoronto.

There are spots in Santa Ana, Garden Grove, Orange, Anaheim, and Buena Park that are comparable to parts of Los Angeles County as far as crime, poverty and decay are concerned.

[Buckeye Native 001]

DP

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by alleystreetindustry

atlanta is going to be reversed within 15-20 years. at this rate all the middle class+ are moving back in, renovating the city's bungalows and manors. our crime is going down significantly, and almost all of the "decay" is flipped into lofts or torn down and replaced.

but for the past: transportation, racism, and white flight destroyed atlanta. all of the middle class on up moved out for "suburban luxury". during this time industry (or the business that managed to exist after most bottomed out) existed only in the city (of which most of the workers were lower class). office space then followed its employees to office parks. this is why atlanta was described as a doughnut, because everything happened outside the city. during this time, marta was denied access to major counties such as gwinnett and cobb. basically because (in that time) a majority of the citizens didn't want the crime and poverty to come into their neighborhoods (and being racist they associated this with the lower class african americans of the city). so there we have poverty (unemployed and lower class workers), decay, and crime (which is almost in every case associated with lower class citizens). all of which is going to be [almost] inexistent in atlanta within the coming years.

Wow, talk about seeing your city with rose-colored glasses...

Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who believes their particular city/metro area is going to really reverse the trend of poverty, crime, and the like dramatically in the next 15-20 years, thus transferring all of that element to the suburbs, is sadly mistaken.

Sorry, but these elements will always be in human society, and will thus always be in any urban areas (hell, rural as well!). No city can be completely or even mostly free of said elements, and that's all there is to it.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[UglymanCometh]

In Detroit, most of the border neighbourhoods and suburbs look alike. That ONE part of the Detroit/Grosse Pointe Park border is more the exception than the rule... even here in Detroit.

[Rusty van Reddick]

East Chicago Indiana is WAY worse than Hegewisch or the East Side in Chicago. I know it's been said but selective observation is a horrible source for sweeping conclusions, Mike.

[MolsonExport]

Huh? Plenty of poverty in the inner city suburbs of Montreal (former suburbs of Maisonneuve, St. Michel, Montreal-Nord), Verdun, Lasalle, Lachine, etc. All very old burbs, with plenty of crime, poverty, and decay.

There is no evidence to support your assertion.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

How have the inner suburbs that border the nations cities, escaped for the most part, the decay, crime, and poverty of the inner city?

Do you not live in SCARBOROUGH? What about Jane & Finch etc..? are they not in NORTH YORK.


What on earth are you talking about?!