Hamilton Street Railway Route ideas.

[miketoronto]

I think you guys where talking about my
route 103E: EASTGATE-MOHAWK EXPRESS as the bus connecting malls

The reason I did that, is because the malls act like major transit centres. It has nothing to do with them being malls. But more with them being transit centres, and also big destinations in their own right.


Doady sometimes you need to provide improved service such as express buses to get people onto transit. If you just leave every bus as a local bus running down local roads, then you are not going to attract people of choice, if they can drive faster.

Transit also has to rise to the challenge to provide improved service.

That is why cities like Hamilton have seen their ridership stagnate. Because the only people taking transit are the ones who have no other choice.

Somthing to think about. My co-worker can drive from her house in Stoney Creek to Bay and Front Street to our office, in about 40min.
You can't even get to McMaster in that amount of time by HSR and its the same city.

[realcity]

HSR does not provide an alternative to car use, as transit should. It is only an option for people without a car, so the stereotype in Hamilton persists. You only ride the HSR is you're too poor to afford a car. The opposite is true in TO, were business people in expensive suits use the subway and the poor suckers who have to drive into TO because they are too poor to afford city living. Speaking of TTC and HSR, the TTC is responsible to the many nodes and clusters of CBDs and retail, giving a viability to the many neighbourhoods. With a transit leading to Union the biggest cluster of them all. In Hamilton that should be Gore Park or wherever that hub is relocated to. With mini clusters in Westdale, U James, Concession, Locke, Eastgate, Limeridge, Dundas, Ottawa, Harbourfront, Beach Strip, etc. Then we'll have a viable alternative and some people may actually choose transit over car use.

I work 8 km from my home a 10 minute car trip, for me to take the bus I might as well commute to downtown TO. I would need to take 3 busses how ridiculous is that? Upper Paradise which runs every 20 minutes (ridiculuously long) to Mohawk to Upper Sherman, 8 kms would take over an hour. Get real HSR, the whole system needs to be rethought. Unfortunately there is no political will, because when any politician mentions HSR most voters would rather not even have it, because it slows down their car. Hamilton is getting worse, drivers are not expecting pedestrians. Even when there is a pedestrian at a cross walk they drive right up to you, give no indication they see you or are slowing down and look aggravated if they make eye-contact. I always try to make eye-contact with a driver, it lets me know they fuckn see me. Then more often then not, the driver is shaking his head at me. Hamilton is a fucked up city.

[raisethehammer]

can't compare York region's VIVA to hamilton's need for BRT. Most major routes than run through Hamilton are jammed. BRT will be a very welcomed, and well-used improvement.
Transit on the Mountain is pretty bad as Realcity said, but that's more due to the way in which is was developed as car dependant sprawl. I live downtown and am a 10-15 minute car drive from my office. On bus it takes about 15-20, by bike it takes about 10-15. I have great options and choose the bike and bus 80% of the time because it is heathier, more enjoyable, cheaper and adds to the feeling of 'connecting' with my city neighbourhoods, not just screaming through them in a car.
It's a different world up on the Mountain, unless you live along the Concession St corridor which has fabulous service both to the lower city and Mountain areas. Sprawl is the problem, whether it's in Ancaster or the 'old' city of Hamilton.

[SteelTown]

What the HSR needs to do is provide discount bus passes to companies that wish to join. I know HSR will give discounts to Hamilton Health Sciences employees, the deal is you have to give up your parking pass and HHS will help cover the cost. They should really think about adding McMaster University employees to the deal. McMaster is out of parking space so this deal would help.

They also need to get Mohawk College a bus pass like McMaster, it's not free paid under student fees but totally cheap $60 for a year.

Doing that will really help ridership increase and force the city to adjust some changes to how the HSR operates.

[raisethehammer]

I thought Mohawk students do have one already....Columbia College students do.

[miketoronto]

The HSR system works great if you are going downtown. If you look at a route map, almost all the routes from the mountain lead to downtown Hamilton. But it does not work good for people going to McMaster and other areas of the city, unless they are in the lower city already.

And even the local service could be faster to get people downtown.

There is no doubt a stronger more faster transit system could help downtown Hamilton out alot.

Hamilton is about the same size as Ottawa(talking city, not metro area). Yet HSR only carries 65,000 riders a day, compared to Ottawa's 350,000 riders.

Now there are different dynamics in Ottawa like larger downtown, etc.

But the point is Hamilton should have way more then 65,000 riders a day. Hell even 150,000 would be good, which is about the same as Mississauga.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I thought Mohawk students do have one already....Columbia College students do.

If they did I'd be the first to grab the bus pass.

[Boomtown_Hamilton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

A new route is starting up next year...#59. it will run from Eastgate Sq to the southeast mountain area - Hwy 53&20 and then I think it comes west into the 'heritage green' neighbourhood. So that should help you Boomtown.

With median transit like this the signal lights are set up at intersections with a long left turn sequnence that allows people to make U-turns. Then it's easy for someone who's coming off the Linc to get to the theatre. U-turn at Rymal and you're in. Also, people need to be a little wiser with their trip planning. Back when I lived on the Mountain I was amazed at how people would cross Upper James IN THEIR CARS from one parking lot to another. now people might actually have to plan and hit the stores on the east side at once, then the west side. Sure it might be a little less convenient for cars, but that's the point. It will be MORE convenient for transit riders. The BRT stops at that street halfway between Ryman and Stonechurch and the folks get off and walk to the theatre. That is the only way any city can get people out of cars and into transit. No parking hassles, lineups, traffic jams etc.....
We'll have to see if city hall has the leadership and vision to make it happen despite the cries from some car-addicted folks.

raisethehammer.......

Route #59?....that's great news....long overdue....will this bus be travelling up along Highway #20?

[Boomtown_Hamilton]

Originally Posted by matt602

It is definitely NOT due to congestion. It is very rare that you'll run into a traffic jam in Hamilton, unless it is rush hour.

It's rare to see traffic jams in Hamilton due to the number of One-way streets we have in the City HOWEVER lately the City has been transforming the one-way streets into two-way routes and this I find is starting to congest the traffic especially in the downtown core.....not too sure what the City here is thinking by changing the one-way streets into two-way routes???

[raisethehammer]

two-way streets are better for pedestrians, cyclists AND yes, a little bit of slower car traffic is acceptable, especially once we have BRT with it's own lanes never getting slowed in traffic. It'll be a good way to draw new transit users.

As for route #59, yes it will use Hwy 20. I don't know exactly where it will go up top, but i know it goes to heritage green neighbourhood and Hwy 20 &53 intersection.

[Boomtown_Hamilton]

How exactly are the two-way streets better for pedestrians?...I hear it all the time with no real explanation of it....last time I checked, cars use roads and pedestrians use sidewalks.......

Highway #20 bad stretch of highway with terrible track record of accidents...those buses will have to be flying down that hill and they have no seat belts inside those city buses.

[raisethehammer]

First, 2-way streets slow traffic and make for a more enjoyable pedestrian experience...walk from Dundurn Castle to Copps along York and tell me how enjoyable the walk is.
Then walk from LIUNA Station to Jackson Sq and compare the difference.

Second, Hwy 20/Centennial has intentionally been ignored for decades as part of the attempt to convince residents that we needed Red Hill. Once Red Hill opens 2 things need to happen - a) trucks should be banned from Centennial and b) Centennial needs to be fixed up for the first time in half a century. Add wide sidewalks, trees, transit stops etc..... right now it's a mess...an intentional mess.

[Boomtown_Hamilton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

First, 2-way streets slow traffic and make for a more enjoyable pedestrian experience...walk from Dundurn Castle to Copps along York and tell me how enjoyable the walk is.
Then walk from LIUNA Station to Jackson Sq and compare the difference.

Second, Hwy 20/Centennial has intentionally been ignored for decades as part of the attempt to convince residents that we needed Red Hill. Once Red Hill opens 2 things need to happen - a) trucks should be banned from Centennial and b) Centennial needs to be fixed up for the first time in half a century. Add wide sidewalks, trees, transit stops etc..... right now it's a mess...an intentional mess.

I'm from West Hamilton so I am very familiar with the walks along those two streets you listed here for us and even when James street use to be a one way street I always enjoyed walking through it....maybe it's just me but as a pedestrian doesn't make a difference for me personally whether James street is one way or two way but sure makes a difference when I'm inside my car trying ro get around the downtown core.........

I agree with you about banning the trucks from Centennial....I would also like to see them banned from our downtown core....getting really tired of seeing noisy trucks drive by Hamilton Place and City hall downtown.

[Boomtown_Hamilton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

First, 2-way streets slow traffic and make for a more enjoyable pedestrian experience...walk from Dundurn Castle to Copps along York and tell me how enjoyable the walk is.
Then walk from LIUNA Station to Jackson Sq and compare the difference.

Second, Hwy 20/Centennial has intentionally been ignored for decades as part of the attempt to convince residents that we needed Red Hill. Once Red Hill opens 2 things need to happen - a) trucks should be banned from Centennial and b) Centennial needs to be fixed up for the first time in half a century. Add wide sidewalks, trees, transit stops etc..... right now it's a mess...an intentional mess.

I've gone over what you had to say regarding the two way streets and after some deep thoughts on it I'd have to say that I agree with you regarding the 2-way streets that make for a more enjoyable pedestrian experience.

Thanks R.M.

[raisethehammer]

ha ha..that's funny. You were deep in thought eh??
I suppose one-way streets like King William and Hess work too...but good luck in getting Main or King turned into streets like that.

[Boomtown_Hamilton]

..........You should be the Mayor.

[SteelTown]

One-way streets like King William and Hess work because they have a maximum of just one or two lanes.

Main St I think will always be a one way street. I say that because it would cost millions to change the 403 exit ramps to adjust the new two way street, that’s why King St West will only change to two way from James to Queen(personally I think they should go further to Dundurn). I feel there's nothing wrong with having one way streets but the problem is you need to slow cars down and have at least a maximum of 3 lanes just like Bay Street.

The city can work to reduce Main St down to 3 lanes and have bus only lane and make bigger sidewalks which would really help the Esplanade BIA pedestrian experience.

I just wish to god the city would look at making Queen St completely two way. It would be so easy to change.

I travel down Beckett Drive every morning and forced to turn on Aberdeen St to Dundurn and towards Westdale on King. Would be a hell of a lot better if I could keep staying on Queen turn on King and towards Westdale. Plus I LOVE Queen St it's one of my favourite area.

[The Drizzler]

main st is brutal. it's like taking a stroll along the QEW. lane reduction is a definite must. getting back to the hsr, my complaint was always the frequency of buses. god help you if you miss your bus 'cause there won't be another one along for a while. you end up being late for work, school or whatever. i used to take the bus from gore to the east mountain quite often and it never ceased to amaze me how often the driver would stop the bus and head to the nearest tim hortons. 5 minutes later we'd be on our way again. after years of trying to be a good urban citizen i gave up and bought a car. in ottawa, this is not necessary. if you miss your bus there'll be another one along in 2-3 minutes. it's not perfect but it's close. if hamilton is serious about public transit then maybe the province and ottawa will start to take notice. the feds are close to handing over $300M to the city of ottawa for a major light rail project. it kind of pisses me off 'cause i can't imagine that ever happening in hamilton but we all understand the advantages that ottawa has. also, ottawa is serious about transit, so it can be rationalized. anyway, i'm rambling. long live public transit!!

[realcity]

Boomtown read James Howard Kunstler's The City in Mind, and Home from Nowhere. The problem with Two-way streets and many things in Hamilton will become clear. not that you don't know this, just it will give you more understanding and a vocabulary to express it better.

[raisethehammer]

frig...I should get those and read them. they sound intriguing.