Highway 69 conversion

[Ottawaresident]

I believe Sudbury deserves a highway connection to Toronto and beyond. I think the highway should be placed a little further east however, to avoid the little towns.

[Dengler Avenue]

Technically (no pun intended), the route planning has been done. Apparently the effort to twin 69 between Highway 522 (Grundy Lake Provincial Park) and Highway 559 (Nobel, Parry Sound) is stalled because the province doesn't like the deal offered by the 3 FN's that the freeway will traverse.

But yea, imagine Highway 400 between GTA and Sudbury, Highway 404(?) between GTA and North Bay, then Highway 417 between Sudbury and Ottawa (via North Bay).

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Technically (no pun intended), the route planning has been done. Apparently the effort to twin 69 between Highway 522 (Grundy Lake Provincial Park) and Highway 559 (Nobel, Parry Sound) is stalled because the province doesn't like the deal offered by the 3 FN's that the freeway will traverse.

But yea, imagine Highway 400 between GTA and Sudbury, Highway 404(?) between GTA and North Bay, then Highway 417 between Sudbury and Ottawa (via North Bay).

Just imagine a freeway from North Bay to Winnipeg.

[Dengler Avenue]

From Ottawa*** to Winnipeg

It remains to see whether or not the feds will buy into something this big.

[Loco101]

I'm pretty sure that it will eventually happen due to the economic benefits of being able to transport goods more quickly by transports. Once the media starts questioning why Eastern and Western Canada aren't well linked, I'm pretty sure that the federal government will fund something. I can see new alignments in some areas making the route shorter.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Once the media starts questioning why Eastern and Western Canada aren't well linked, I'm pretty sure that the federal government will fund something.

It’s a good start that Nipigon Bridge Failure in January 2016 made headlines.

Otherwise, I’m still waiting for what you just said to happen.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://www.sudbury.com/local-news/r...hwy-69-1210794

Something just doesn’t add up.

ONPC’s conducted line-by-line review of Highway 400 Extension project.

But the twinning of 69 from south of Grundy Lake Provincial Park to north of Highway 607 proceeds as is.

That means the twinning of 69 in Parry Sound is in question.

But Parry Sound is a PC riding.

So I’m guessing ONPC wants a cheaper deal from the 3 FN’s?

I’ve asked this many times before but no one seemed to confirm or refute my conjecture.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://www.sudbury.com/local-news/r...hwy-69-1210794

Something just doesn’t add up.

ONPC’s conducted line-by-line review of Highway 400 Extension project.

But the twinning of 69 from south of Grundy Lake Provincial Park to north of Highway 607 proceeds as is.

That means the twinning of 69 in Parry Sound is in question.

But Parry Sound is a PC riding.

So I’m guessing ONPC wants a cheaper deal from the 3 FN’s?

I’ve asked this many times before but no one seemed to confirm or refute my conjecture.

The section between Alban and 607 is currently under construction. Terminating construction would likely result in cancellation penalties. So, the government will likely complete the existing section under construction.

Yes, Parry Sound is PC. I suspect the political support for twinning now comes from areas north of there (read: Sudbury), since Parry Sound now has their fancy speedway to Barrie and Toronto. Most of the population of Parry Sound is more tied to the south than the north I suspect, given the fact that the population swells hugely in the summertime due to cottagers.

Sudbury and Nickel Belt went NDP in the last election, so no political points lost in that riding.

That being said, I suspect the PC government will not cancel the project as much as drag their feet on it. Given that the negotiations with the First Nations will take time and the PC government is in no rush, I suspect consultations will be delayed as much as possible and then be used as an excuse to delay the overall project.

[Dengler Avenue]

So Parry Sound's got what it wanted, and the only pushing force is Sudbury now...

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

So Parry Sound's got what it wanted, and the only pushing force is Sudbury now...

Yes, basically.

Sudbury previously had a stronger voice in government during the Liberal era due to being held by Rick Bartolucci and Glenn Thibeault, both Liberals.

Now, it has no voice in government and has minimal potential to swing PC (the last time Sudbury went PC was 1985), so there's minimal political support to be gained by guaranteeing such an investment.

As I said before, I suspect the government will continue the project on paper and then blame any delays on FN negotiations.

[Ottawaresident]

Yeah, but eventually the route will need upgrading. It was pretty stressfull passing the trucks when we went this summer. I can only imagine the place during winter. Also, maybe if the PCs pledges a freeway to Sudbury they will go Tory. I'm quite sure construction has already been started. As well, I'm quite sure the Sudbury bypass is being expanded and extended

[Dengler Avenue]

Are you trying to tell me that MTO’s been quietly widening Sudbury Bypass between City Road 55 (Lively) and Highway 69?

If not, don’t let the work on 17 between CR 55 (DenLou) and CR 55 (Lively) fool you.
That 20 km stretch of roadway was twinned back in the 80’s. For some strange reason, every year from spring to fall, MTO will close down the westbound lanes to do work. (I don’t even know what for.) Because of that, Sudbury bypass is effectively 2-lane undivided for all 49 km.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

Yeah, but eventually the route will need upgrading. It was pretty stressfull passing the trucks when we went this summer. I can only imagine the place during winter. Also, maybe if the PCs pledges a freeway to Sudbury they will go Tory. I'm quite sure construction has already been started. As well, I'm quite sure the Sudbury bypass is being expanded and extended

That was good for a chuckle. Sudbury leans centre-left given its historical roots as a big labour town (mining industry) and government employment centre. The PC party hasn't had a chance there since the Bill Davis era.

Ernie Eves promised a freeway to Sudbury in 2003. It didn't help his election chances - he was defeated.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just used to 2-lane highways, but I don't find them that stressful in the north. The worst ones tend to be in southern Ontario IMO - Highway 9 between the 400 and Orangeville simply carries high volumes of traffic or Highway 12 south of Orillia with its many traffic lights and lack of passing lanes bother me more.

Highways 17 and 69 are a relative breeze. They flow nicely, the sightlines are good and there's frequent passing lanes. The 400 is still a go as far as I know, so unless something changes in the next budget, I'm not too worried.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by wave46

That was good for a chuckle. Sudbury leans centre-left given its historical roots as a big labour town (mining industry) and government employment centre. The PC party hasn't had a chance there since the Bill Davis era.

Ernie Eves promised a freeway to Sudbury in 2003. It didn't help his election chances - he was defeated.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just used to 2-lane highways, but I don't find them that stressful in the north. The worst ones tend to be in southern Ontario IMO - Highway 9 between the 400 and Orangeville simply carries high volumes of traffic or Highway 12 south of Orillia with its many traffic lights and lack of passing lanes bother me more.

Highways 17 and 69 are a relative breeze. They flow nicely, the sightlines are good and there's frequent passing lanes. The 400 is still a go as far as I know, so unless something changes in the next budget, I'm not too worried.

So I’m not the only one that thinks something needs to be done to Highway 9 in GTA huh?

I don’t necessarily agree that Highway 17’s simply a breeze though. The stretch between Highway 6 and beginning of the 4 lanes can be bad even on a Saturday night, all thanks to the 1 or 2 trucks leading the convoy.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Are you trying to tell me that MTO’s been quietly widening Sudbury Bypass between City Road 55 (Lively) and Highway 69?

If not, don’t let the work on 17 between CR 55 (DenLou) and CR 55 (Lively) fool you.
That 20 km stretch of roadway was twinned back in the 80’s. For some strange reason, every year from spring to fall, MTO will close down the westbound lanes to do work. (I don’t even know what for.) Because of that, Sudbury bypass is effectively 2-lane undivided for all 49 km.

For the last 2-3 years the 4 lanes have been under construction. I suspect a closure in the summer to finish work on the westbound side and that's it.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Are you trying to tell me that MTO’s been quietly widening Sudbury Bypass between City Road 55 (Lively) and Highway 69?

If not, don’t let the work on 17 between CR 55 (DenLou) and CR 55 (Lively) fool you.
That 20 km stretch of roadway was twinned back in the 80’s. For some strange reason, every year from spring to fall, MTO will close down the westbound lanes to do work. (I don’t even know what for.) Because of that, Sudbury bypass is effectively 2-lane undivided for all 49 km.

The MTO has been removing rock cuts from the sides of Highway 17 (and in the median of the 4-lane sections) at various locations. Notable areas of improvement include between North Bay and Mattawa and they're currently working on sections between North Bay and Sudbury.

Going down an embankment is a far nicer stopping process than into a rock cut if you're going off the highway for whatever reason.

[Dengler Avenue]

What exactly is MTO doing there though?

Edit: wave46 beat me to it.

I guess the new MTO standard is no rock cuts in the median of a divided freeway in Canadians Shield? At least that’s the impression the new Highway 69 gave me.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

What exactly is MTO doing there though?

Edit: wave46 beat me to it.

I guess the new MTO standard is no rock cuts in the median of a divided freeway in Canadians Shield? At least that’s the impression the new Highway 69 gave me.

I don't think it's no rock cuts.

This is a recently built section of Highway 400 near Parry Sound.

Rock cuts on the 400

I suspect they're looking at problem areas and improving those - i.e. poor sightlines, rock cut very close to edge of highway, high accident rate.

[Ottawaresident]

Yeah. Highway 17 East of SSM is horrible. Highway 69 is also quite bad, and anyways Northern Ontario deserves a freeway at least to Sudbury. Also, I agree that Highway 12 is hell. But that's Southern Ontario. Never been on Highway 9 though

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

Yeah. Highway 17 East of SSM is horrible. Highway 69 is also quite bad, and anyways Northern Ontario deserves a freeway at least to Sudbury. Also, I agree that Highway 12 is hell. But that's Southern Ontario. Never been on Highway 9 though

It is getting one AFAIK, unless the current government changes its mind.

I can't comment on 17 between Sudbury and the Sault - it is one of the few northern highways I've not really driven much.