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  #21  
Old Posted May 30, 2021, 2:22 PM
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Bland, chunky, sterile, uninteresting and generic.

It's sad that the most interesting retail street in Atlantic Canada has lost it's entire character and mojo in less than a generation.

Halifax could do so much better. In Moncton, we would welcome this development with open arms, but we are hungry for investment, and almost anything would be better than what we have now, but, Halifax has a stronger economy and can afford to be much more picky. This proposal does not fly as far as I'm concerned. I am very disappointed.

Halifax can do better. Maintain the character of SGR!!!
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Last edited by MonctonRad; May 30, 2021 at 2:36 PM.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2021, 7:19 PM
Hadrian Laing Hadrian Laing is offline
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There is an online public engagement tonight (June 7) from 7:00-9:00pm. Being a shorter squatter building, I'm interested to see how it goes.

ps: you can register here - link Below:
https://www.siteplanapprovalcase23107millshalifax.com/
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  #23  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2021, 7:38 PM
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I wonder what new retailers might move into a development like this? I also wonder if higher end tenants will tend to materialize as the pandemic recedes. It is a risky time to open a new shop right now, and many retailers are under pressure so they are not in expansion mode.

As far as I know the Roy storefronts are still empty. Then there's the Discovery Centre and Green Lantern. There are network effects; if an area has tons of construction happening and yet-to-open storefronts it's not necessarily a great place to operate a business.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2021, 1:22 AM
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If the streetscaping project turns out to be an exploding cigar for SGR merchants, those storefronts might be empty for a very long time. The area already is challenged by an excess of street people and undesirables harassing pedestrians.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2021, 7:47 PM
Hadrian Laing Hadrian Laing is offline
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I wonder what new retailers might move into a development like this? I also wonder if higher end tenants will tend to materialize as the pandemic recedes. It is a risky time to open a new shop right now, and many retailers are under pressure so they are not in expansion mode.
Good question, I'd expect they have to be high-markup, well-established businesses given what will likely be high cost leases. My bet is luxury goods like in the Doyle. Would have been a good question, they actually ended early because of a lack of participation.

Also, presenters said they expect the building to get underway promptly and "collaborate" with the SGR streetscaping that started yesterday. Probably 2 years minimum before retailers start opening their doors?
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  #26  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2021, 2:36 AM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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The golden age of SGR and high end retailers was over several years ago and the expensive shops have all moved to Halifax Shopping Centre. SGR has a large Dollarama and fast food outlets, a slightly better tone that Dartmouth Shopping Centre. And the age profile in the expensive condos is more akin to the upscale seniors home next to the Cathedral.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2021, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
The golden age of SGR and high end retailers was over several years ago and the expensive shops have all moved to Halifax Shopping Centre. SGR has a large Dollarama and fast food outlets, a slightly better tone that Dartmouth Shopping Centre. And the age profile in the expensive condos is more akin to the upscale seniors home next to the Cathedral.
Can confirm on the age profile in condos, though there’s definitely a swath of young professionals in the Curve. I can’t say for certain if the expensive shops have moved to HSC when all the Doyle shops exist. If anything I would say there’s a lack of midrange shops in the area to fill the gap between Dollorama and Duggar’s.

I also find myself forgetting what is on/just off SGR on the malls. A movie theatre, two gyms plus other fitness studios, a bike shop, music shop, running store, restaurants, tons of personal services, but not everything has a shopfront along the street. So it’s easy to feel like it’s just drug stores, banks, and Lululemon.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2021, 1:08 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the long run. You have SGR, which appears to be in the midst of a transition (we'll see what effect the new streetscaping has on the dynamic of the street). Then you have the Barrington area, which is also continuing to add more street level shops (along with just about every other new building). And of course with this are all the new residents that will be added as these buildings are completed.

Meanwhile as mentioned, malls continue, with HSC doing all those recent renovations and becoming a really good shopping destination.

Will the DT area play out as planned with residents supporting the local streetside businesses, creating a thriving shopping area (as it was in the 1940s thru 1960s), or will the malls continue to draw people from the DT due to their all-in-one shopping experience. Or both?

Stay tuned to find out...
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  #29  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2021, 4:39 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Will the DT area play out as planned with residents supporting the local streetside businesses, creating a thriving shopping area (as it was in the 1940s thru 1960s), or will the malls continue to draw people from the DT due to their all-in-one shopping experience. Or both?

I think neither will ever come even close to that glory days that you describe. Both are now targeting largely the same audience - the boutiquey shopper. Fashion, mostly, with shoes and accessories thrown in. It is a relatively small market. Malls themselves are dying thanks to big-box retailers and of course online shopping. That is where the all-in-one business has gone.

I seriously question whether there are enough boutiquey shoppers, along with booze-atorium patrons and restaurant diners, to keep them afloat in either area of the DT, especially since they are discouraging people who do not live there from visiting.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2021, 5:55 PM
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I see successful downtowns transitioning from an office and retail role to more of a mixed use and experiential model. In other words the focus will shift toward residents and things that you want to experience in person, like a bar or restaurant or certain kinds of shops that are fun to be in or sell items that don't work well online.

I don't miss the in-person retail experience for bulky/generic items, like the process of buying a vacuum cleaner at Sears in 2002.

I believe the new residents will have a big impact on downtown Halifax (and much of the peninsula) that has not yet been felt. The population of the Spring Garden Road area must be headed to a much higher level than what it was in say 2015, and most of those people are choosing that area for the convenience and vibrancy. They want to patronize businesses at their doorstep.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2021, 5:06 PM
Kittle Kittle is offline
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The crane is currently going up on this site.

Last edited by Kittle; Jul 21, 2021 at 3:34 AM.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2021, 6:03 PM
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I see successful downtowns transitioning from an office and retail role to more of a mixed use and experiential model. In other words the focus will shift toward residents and things that you want to experience in person, like a bar or restaurant or certain kinds of shops that are fun to be in or sell items that don't work well online.
That’s literally what’s been happening over the last couple decades and exactly what Florida and friends have been regurgitating all this time. This “hipster-chasing” called upon by cities may very well be successful in attracting skilled workers in some “creative” (an ill-defined category) sectors. For others I don’t picture the situation being so rosy. Being successful in the modern economy often means forgetting about individuals of less immediate utility. What’s branded as diverse eventually becomes quite homogeneous; a moment in time that eventually defeats itself. This is where I see the grain of truth from forum members I usually disagree with. People such as Jane Jacobs may have inspired new life into downtowns, but in a way are also responsible for killing them by promoting a form of aestheticization open to commodification.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2021, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Good Baklava View Post
That’s literally what’s been happening over the last couple decades and exactly what Florida and friends have been regurgitating all this time. This “hipster-chasing” called upon by cities may very well be successful in attracting skilled workers in some “creative” (an ill-defined category) sectors. For others I don’t picture the situation being so rosy. Being successful in the modern economy often means forgetting about individuals of less immediate utility. What’s branded as diverse eventually becomes quite homogeneous; a moment in time that eventually defeats itself. This is where I see the grain of truth from forum members I usually disagree with. People such as Jane Jacobs may have inspired new life into downtowns, but in a way are also responsible for killing them by promoting a form of aestheticization open to commodification.
The only problem with this sentiment is the idea that Jane Jacobs & co. are somehow responsible for this this commodification rather than the endless stream of developers, politicians and hack architects relentlessly pursuing profit at the expense of what people and cities really need over the last 50 years. Leave the true activists out of it if you're going to say "good things are actually bad".
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  #34  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2021, 2:54 AM
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The only problem with this sentiment is the idea that Jane Jacobs & co. are somehow responsible for this this commodification rather than the endless stream of developers, politicians and hack architects relentlessly pursuing profit at the expense of what people and cities really need over the last 50 years. Leave the true activists out of it if you're going to say "good things are actually bad".
I know the narrative is often spun in a way to make it seem as if Jane & co. had their ideas stolen, although it ignores how these ideas were vulnerable to becoming platforms for commodification. First and foremost, talks of human-scaled design are formalisms, something expected to be replicated elsewhere. We apparently want to rebuild cities to past standards, although we can’t ignore how the old city is a caricature of its former self due to tourism or commodification (Venice residents hosted a funeral for their city not so long ago). While the top-down approach of destroying these places was undeniably a major issue, Jacobs liked to say how cities should be built and function without tackling the core of the issue. Jacobs critiqued “planners” although left the institutions planners answer to relatively unscathed.

This leads onto the blatant contradictions in regards to Jacobs’ relationship with the state. While she condemned the state when it was spearheaded by the ideas of Moses and LeCorbusier, she praised the technocratic approach when it delivered her idea of utopia in other projects. She also provided a thinly veiled critique of the welfare state. Towers in the park public housing projects were a target of hers, which to this day justifies their demolition and replacement by luxury market units because the new-urbanist design is assumed to be “better”. Of course I won’t deny the welfare state was deeply flawed for many reasons, but are we really improving things?

To top things off, I would argue Jacobs started as a grassroots activist but lost that title when she received her grant to write Death and life of great American cities. From where one may ask? The Rockefeller Foundation… No jokes, look it up. I’m sure many admire the Rockefeller foundation, but if your books are funded by them you’re no longer a community activist. Jane Jacobs was a liberal, in the sense that she wanted to help others without considering how communities could be empowered to help themselves. Her liberalism lost its liberty. Instead, some concrete “right to the city” is needed for real change, although to date that idea has slept in the realm of idealism.
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Last edited by Good Baklava; Jul 21, 2021 at 3:33 PM.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2021, 7:44 PM
Hadrian Laing Hadrian Laing is offline
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I [don't] want to get in the way of a good Jane Jacobs debate as little as anyone else... but does anyone have additional information on this development?

We (public) were shown some fairly lack luster renders and plans which don't hold weight regarding the final product and now it's under construction. This project is in an important location and I'd like to see more.

Disclosure - I was deeply unsatisfied with the public engagement for this project in which I participated. It was rather pitiful, just a few renders and plans. I asked [typed with a auto-muted mic because we weren't allowed to speak] 8 of the 10 questions and then they ended the presentation a full hour short.

Last edited by Hadrian Laing; Aug 5, 2021 at 11:51 AM.
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  #36  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 7:18 PM
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Looks like the crane for this one is visible in this shot:


Source
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  #37  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2021, 10:25 PM
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Approved last night!
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  #38  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2021, 12:54 PM
Hadrian Laing Hadrian Laing is offline
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Approved last night!
I'm looking forward to what goes here, but this has been pushed through fundamentally without critique.

The question from Marcel T in the Design Review Committee puts it perfectly: "I'm curious why we're approving plans for a site which are already under construction."

There are no plans publicly available. How is this getting approved if documents aren't hosted publicly? I'm new to this so I am genuinely asking? Does anyone know the next step?
https://www.halifax.ca/city-hall/mee...pecial-meeting

And does anyone know why undergrounding utilities and providing affordable housing can't both be included it this development? Why one or the other?
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  #39  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2021, 4:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Hadrian Laing View Post
I'm looking forward to what goes here, but this has been pushed through fundamentally without critique.

The question from Marcel T in the Design Review Committee puts it perfectly: "I'm curious why we're approving plans for a site which are already under construction."

There are no plans publicly available. How is this getting approved if documents aren't hosted publicly? I'm new to this so I am genuinely asking? Does anyone know the next step?
https://www.halifax.ca/city-hall/mee...pecial-meeting

And does anyone know why undergrounding utilities and providing affordable housing can't both be included it this development? Why one or the other?
https://www.westwoodgroup.ca/properties/the-mills
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  #40  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2021, 4:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Hadrian Laing View Post
There are no plans publicly available. How is this getting approved if documents aren't hosted publicly? I'm new to this so I am genuinely asking? Does anyone know the next step?
https://www.halifax.ca/city-hall/mee...pecial-meeting
What are you looking for? If you follow that link there is a PDF with floor plans, models, renderings, etc. I think this is basically the standard package.

Quote:
And does anyone know why undergrounding utilities and providing affordable housing can't both be included it this development? Why one or the other?
My impression is that there is a density bonus provision under HRM by Design/Centre Plan and to get the bonus developers have to provide a certain value of public good. It can be art, affordable housing, undergrounding, or maybe some other things. Not sure what the current rules are. I believe it is up to the developer to decide whether or not to propose a public benefit or what to propose.

I don't know if the municipality is paying for the undergrounding on this block as part of SGR streetscaping or the developer has contributed to that. It probably says somewhere in the document.

If the Centre Plan allowed for larger density bonuses in exchange for affordable housing there would probably be more affordable housing built.
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