Austin | The Republic | 710 Feet | 47 Floors | U/C

[mars-man]

Actually that's just ABJ's typically sloppy reporting, conflating the 8-story federal courthouse with the potential county one, the height of which has not even been proposed at this point.

[BevoLJ]

I saw that in the ABJ and was surprised. I'm not an architect or anything like that, but is it possible to get 500k sq/feet out of 8 stories on 1 acer? Not being all that good at math or seeing that kinda stuff in my mind it still seems pretty impossible to do.

[Downtown_Austin]

Originally Posted by ATXboom

I may be wrong but I believe the bums are in wooldridge park because the jail is located nearby... not necessarily the courthouse. HOPEFULLY that is the case.

neither the courthouse nor the jail has much to do with vagrancy in that area. 1) Mobile Loaves & Fishes serves meals at Wooldridge. 2) Austin History Center and the Library have public bathrooms.

[TXAlex]

Originally Posted by BevoLJ

I saw that in the ABJ and was surprised. I'm not an architect or anything like that, but is it possible to get 500k sq/feet out of 8 stories on 1 acer? Not being all that good at math or seeing that kinda stuff in my mind it still seems pretty impossible to do.

500,000 sq ft / 42560 sq ft to an acre = at least 12 stories. The foundation will likely not take an entire acre. So it should be more stories than that.

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by BevoLJ

I saw that in the ABJ and was surprised. I'm not an architect or anything like that, but is it possible to get 500k sq/feet out of 8 stories on 1 acer? Not being all that good at math or seeing that kinda stuff in my mind it still seems pretty impossible to do.

It is possible, but it would be one HUGE ugly building. The Omni Hotel in downtown has 990,000 square feet, is 16 floors tall, and occupies its entire block. Since this building will be roughly half the size of that one, it could be half the height, too. But again, it would look like a giant block.

[H2O]

Downtown blocks (except those facing Congress) are 76,000 square feet or 1.75 acres. With underground parking, a 500,000 square foot building would be at least 8 stories. An article in the Statesman this morning says it is planned to be 17 stories.

[Downtown_Austin]

Originally Posted by H2O

Downtown blocks (except those facing Congress) are 76,000 square feet or 1.75 acres. With underground parking, a 500,000 square foot building would be at least 8 stories. An article in the Statesman this morning says it is planned to be 17 stories.

cool... i did not know that about the size of downtown blocks.

[JAM]

Wow, this bites. What a waste of good downtown land. What is the rationale for wanting to put a court downtown anyway? Most people seldom go to court, and if they do, they certainly will be driving to it anyway, so why not put it somewhere that it is more easily accessible to the general public?

I long for the good 'ol days: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...highlight=AMOA

[austlar1]

Well, maybe the AMOA (if they are the benficiaries of this real estate sale) will use the money and actually buy some art for their museum. It is kind of lacking in that department right now.

I think the county should develop land along Airport Blvd. for court buildings and office buidings. The area is well located and I don't think the NIMBY opposition to large or fairly tall buildings would be all that great in the area where there are currently some county offices near Airport and 2222/290. It won't happen, but it would give a push towards new development in that area adjacent to Highland Mall. The downtown block is crying out for a hotel or apartment block or a nice office building. Maybe they will put something decent up, but it won't knock anybody's socks off that is for sure.

[KevinFromTexas]

Here's the article that mentions it'll be 17 floors. That doesn't sound impressive, but it could still mean a 300 foot building. I wish that it could have another use as well, maybe residential or hotel space, plus retail. The development and construction cost could be shared between the county and developer.

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/...d-1129875.html

Travis County courthouse plan scrutinized
County Judge Sam Biscoe tries to ease concerns, which include location and cost.

By Suzannah Gonzales
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Updated: 11:35 p.m. Friday, Dec. 17, 2010
Published: 11:34 p.m. Friday, Dec. 17, 2010

The county's so-called downtown Central Campus master plan calls for a 17-story courthouse with close to 500,000 square feet, including a basement. Biscoe said officials are discussing the possibility of including underground parking. Officials said design work for a courthouse will begin after Jan. 1.

Officials considered all county-owned property first, including two blocks at West 11th and Guadalupe streets, but they were either too small or hampered by Capitol view corridor height restrictions.

County officials talked with state legislators representing Travis County about a waiver to the Capitol view corridor restrictions during the past two legislative sessions.

The courthouse in Charlotte is 569,000 square feet, according to the architects' website, and comprises an entire block, said Rodney Rhoades , executive manager of the Travis County Planning and Budget Office .

That courthouse includes a large gathering place for visitors after security checkpoints, child day care and wireless technology and space for the media, Rhoades recalled. The courthouse in Orlando is also about 500,000 square feet but is more vertical with more than 20 floors, an outdoor public plaza and public transportation stops, Rhoades said.

[Scott Wood]

Originally Posted by JAM

Wow, this bites. What a waste of good downtown land. What is the rationale for wanting to put a court downtown anyway? Most people seldom go to court, and if they do, they certainly will be driving to it anyway, so why not put it somewhere that it is more easily accessible to the general public?

Why would they "certainly be driving to it"? Most would, but that could be said about just about anything in Austin. Especially for a building that someone could be compelled to visit, it's a good idea to have it accessible by more than just one, expensive, mode of transportation. "Accessible to the general public" is not the same as "free parking".

If they were going to build something low density, that would be a waste of downtown land -- but that doesn't appear to be the case. The metric isn't how often you (or the typical person) expect to go there -- couldn't you make the same argument about an office building? How often do you go to office buildings you don't work in? There will be plenty of people there. They're not building it just to let it sit empty.

Besides, Downtown is already a major center of the legal sector -- lawyers, other courthouses, government offices, etc. That kind of thing benefits from clustering.

[JAM]

Originally Posted by Scott Wood

Why would they "certainly be driving to it"? Most would, but that could be said about just about anything in Austin. Especially for a building that someone could be compelled to visit, it's a good idea to have it accessible by more than just one, expensive, mode of transportation. "Accessible to the general public" is not the same as "free parking".

If they were going to build something low density, that would be a waste of downtown land -- but that doesn't appear to be the case. The metric isn't how often you (or the typical person) expect to go there -- couldn't you make the same argument about an office building? How often do you go to office buildings you don't work in? There will be plenty of people there. They're not building it just to let it sit empty.

Besides, Downtown is already a major center of the legal sector -- lawyers, other courthouses, government offices, etc. That kind of thing benefits from clustering.

There are office buildings downtown that I don't work in, but visit frequently to utilize the businesses inside. I could set up a business in one if I wanted (And I have in the past) I never go to the courthouse, and I cant set up a biz in one. Government buildings are usually ugly. Something like a hotel or more shopping would be used by more people and bring much needed critical mass to downtown. A government court house isn't gonna do that. As far as the driving goes, live in a fantasy land of people utilizing mass transit all you want, but lets face it, most people drive (there really isn't any good, steady mass transit to use) - and we don't need more people trying to get to the court house on time that have no idea of where they are going and then nearly run over a pedestrian as they forgot to check the cross walk because they are too busy trolling for free parking. As far as major center for lawyers - that's all good, but lets get this diversified a bit.

[MichaelB]

I don't mind that it is a court house. I will be greatly bothered if the city does not bargain or force the county to have street level businesses. We were in Republic Sq park again today Look at the possibility of have 3 dead blocks (at night) around the park. Not at all good for downtown neighbohood or the park. I certainly hope the county gets the need to actually be a good neighbor in Travis county. They need to contribute to the neighborhood. Not just create a pedestrian gap.

Sounds like we need to write ( was it?) Mr Brisco and let him know there are other opinions out there!

I am really glad AMOA will benefit from this... but would like to make sure we get a quality block.... not just filler.

[JAM]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

I don't mind that it is a court house. I will be greatly bothered if the city does not bargain or force the county to have street level businesses. We were in Republic Sq park again today Look at the possibility of have 3 dead blocks (at night) around the park. Not at all good for downtown neighbohood or the park. I certainly hope the county gets the need to actually be a good neighbor in Travis county. They need to contribute to the neighborhood. Not just create a pedestrian gap.

Sounds like we need to write ( was it?) Mr Brisco and let him know there are other opinions out there!

I am really glad AMOA will benefit from this... but would like to make sure we get a quality block.... not just filler.

Ya - it is a dead zone and at risk of becoming an even greater one. Its actually a bit spooky on a quiet week day night around that area. I was thinking about ground floor business there too? Is it possible, or does the same rules apply like the federal court house - I think I heard they have home land security issues, so space around the federal court house is required due to bomb threats, ect?

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by JAM

Ya - it is a dead zone and at risk of becoming an even greater one. Its actually a bit spooky on a quiet week day night around that area. I was thinking about ground floor business there too? Is it possible, or does the same rules apply like the federal court house - I think I heard they have home land security issues, so space around the federal court house is required due to bomb threats, ect?

Indeed the Fed court house has restrictions on it. There has to be a minimum space between the street and the building.... and more detail I don't remember. I believe these guidelines went into effect after the Oklahoma City Bombings.

Not sure if the county has such restrictions. I hope not.

[KevinFromTexas]

I'm not sure if that rule applies to local government buildings. The way I heard it is any federal building must sit 50 feet back from any and all streets it faces. I'm not sure if the State of Texas adopted it, but I know the city hasn't. City Hall would have been a very different building if it had. So I'm not sure about county buildings. I would think they wouldn't adhere to that rule, but since it is a courthouse, they might.

[Downtown_Austin]

There's some very smart comments on this thread - put them to good use. If you support or oppose, please take two minutes NOW and copy/paste the comments you've made on Skyscraper page into an email to Travis County Commissioners and their staff. Here's the list you need.

Sam.Biscoe@co.travis.tx.us
Cheryl.Brown@co.travis.tx.us
melissa.velasquez@co.travis.tx.us
Cheryl.Aker@co.travis.tx.us
josie.zavala@co.travis.tx.us
ron.davis@co.travis.tx.us
feli.chavez@co.travis.tx.us
Sue.Spears@co.travis.tx.us
Deone.Wilhite@co.travis.tx.us
sarah.eckhardt@co.travis.tx.us
peter.einhorn@co.travis.tx.us
loretta.farb@co.travis.tx.us
joe.hon@co.travis.tx.us
Karen.Huber@co.travis.tx.us
Garry.Brown@co.travis.tx.us
Lori.Duarte@co.travis.tx.us
michael.nalick@co.travis.tx.us
Margaret.Gomez@co.travis.tx.us
Edith.Moreida@co.travis.tx.us
Margaret.Gomez@co.travis.tx.us
Edith.Moreida@co.travis.tx.us
Norma.Gonzales@co.travis.tx.us

[mars-man]

Excellent suggestion. Thanks for posting.

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by Downtown_Austin

]

thank you!

[wwmiv]

Just got an email back from Sarah Eckhardt:

It is highly probable that the County will seek a public/private partnership to maximally utilize this block, including mixed use design and significant private use until such time as the county needs more of the space (this building is intended to serve us for many decades). Thank you for your input.