Canadian Foreign Policy & Affairs II

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Gaza typically receives 350-400 trucks a day in better times. It's a largely urban area of 2.3 million people living in an area the size of the city of Detroit.

The Irishman spokesperson from the World Heath Organization said "we don't need 20 trucks we need closer to 2000" to arrive

Thanks for the reminder on how small Gaza is. It makes it even more apparent how it would have been hard for its inhabitants to claim they knew nothing of an attack planned by thousands of Hamas fighters.

[savevp]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Thanks for the reminder on how small Gaza is. It makes it even more apparent how it would have been hard for its inhabitants to claim they knew nothing of an attack planned by thousands of Hamas fighters.

There are rocket launchers positioned next door to mosques, schools, and hospitals throughout Gaza. There were photos on the news this evening taken by Israeli drones showing a handful of them, not that this wasn't already well known. Hamas plan their attacks out of residential high-rises populated with civilians. None of the neighbours are aware? Everyone in Gaza knows exactly who Hamas are, they still support them, and have abetted them for years. I don't recall any anti-Hamas protests in Gaza. You reap what you sow.

EDIT: I've found some of those drone photos on the IDF twitter, see for yourself if you wonder why Israeli airstrikes are hitting UN buildings.

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by savevp

There are rocket launchers positioned next door to mosques, schools, and hospitals throughout Gaza. There were photos on the news this evening taken by Israeli drones showing a handful of them, not that this wasn't already well known. Hamas plan their attacks out of residential high-rises populated with civilians. Everyone in Gaza knows exactly who Hamas are, they still support them, and have abetted them for years. I don't recall any anti-Hamas protests in Gaza. You reap what you sow.

EDIT: I've found some of those drone photos on the IDF twitter, see for yourself if you wonder why Israeli airstrikes are hitting UN buildings.

There was an anti-Hamas protest in July. It ended in gunfire.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Well diversity is our strength. Where would we be without those folks marching to support those who harboured terrorists that had no compunction about massacring children in their homes.

And these days you always have to wonder what powers are fuelling dissent behind the scenes through misinformation.

Another concern is how these marches are snowballing and almost becoming an "in" thing almost a viral trend, in spite of how often and quickly they can flip from pro-Palestine to pro-Hamas and anti-semitism.

[Acajack]

Which brings to mind another thing, if you are the slightest bit self-aware you know full that the march you are part of has a damned good chance of segueing towards support for Hamas or anti-semitism. These may not be your cup of tea personally, but if you don't mind having these people walking beside you that much, that says something about YOU too.

[savevp]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

There was an anti-Hamas protest in July. It ended in gunfire.

Yet polls as recently as July (Washington Institute) suggest close to 60% of Gazans hold a positive view of Hamas. That may be higher now.

I mean, Arab people had no qualms about taking to the streets when they thought Israel bombed the hospital. Now that we know it was a Palestinian rocket (no doubt aimed at Israeli civilians), where's the protest now?

[casper]

Originally Posted by savevp

There are rocket launchers positioned next door to mosques, schools, and hospitals throughout Gaza. There were photos on the news this evening taken by Israeli drones showing a handful of them, not that this wasn't already well known. Hamas plan their attacks out of residential high-rises populated with civilians. None of the neighbours are aware? Everyone in Gaza knows exactly who Hamas are, they still support them, and have abetted them for years. I don't recall any anti-Hamas protests in Gaza. You reap what you sow.

EDIT: I've found some of those drone photos on the IDF twitter, see for yourself if you wonder why Israeli airstrikes are hitting UN buildings.

I don't think anyone is question that Hamas is a terrorist organisation that should be controlled and eliminated.

That said, it also does not give Israel blanket authority to block the red cross and other humanitarian efforts to ensure civilians have access to food, water and medical care. It also does not give the Israel military the authority to kill civilians because it is to hard.

[savevp]

Originally Posted by casper

That said, it also does not give Israel blanket authority to block the red cross and other humanitarian efforts to ensure civilians have access to food, water and medical care.

These things have now been allowed to pass. Through Egypt, I should add, who have had just as much complicity in blocking aid through their own border. Israel doesn't encircle Gaza.

It also does not give the Israel military the authority to kill civilians because it is to hard.

Israel is being accused of war crimes for ordering Gazans to vacate the North so they won't be killed. They also get accused of war crimes when civilians get killed. Hamas operate every aspect of their terrorist organisation amongst civilians in a densely populated area.

If you agree that Hamas must be removed, then you must logically accept civilian infrastructure will be destroyed. And civilians must thusly be relocated, or face peril if they can't or won't.

Even Palestinian rockets can't avoid killing Palestinian civilians in such an environment.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by casper

I don't think anyone is question that Hamas is a terrorist organisation that should be controlled and eliminated.

That said, it also does not give Israel blanket authority to block the red cross and other humanitarian efforts to ensure civilians have access to food, water and medical care. It also does not give the Israel military the authority to kill civilians because it is to hard.

Egypt is always able to welcome in their Muslim brothers and sisters from Gaza.

[casper]

Originally Posted by savevp

These things have now been allowed to pass. Through Egypt, I should add, who have had just as much complicity in blocking aid through their own border. Israel doesn't encircle Gaza.

Egypt is not at "war" with anyone. Israel is.

Originally Posted by savevp

Israel is being accused of war crimes for ordering Gazans to vacate the North so they won't be killed. They also get accused of war crimes when civilians get killed. Hamas operate every aspect of their terrorist organisation amongst civilians in a densely populated area.

If you agree that Hamas must be removed, then you must logically accept civilian infrastructure will be destroyed. And civilians must thusly be relocated, or face peril if they can't or won't.

Even Palestinian rockets can't avoid killing Palestinian civilians in such an environment.

I think you will have a hard time finding anyone who is going to defend what Hamas is doing.

The end does not justify the means. It is simply wrong to claim it is acceptable to kill innocent civilians, children, babies and all because it is the most convenient way of killing a terrorist.

Demanding civilians relocate from one side of a high density city to another so it can be carpet bombed is an act of revenge and a way of punishing a civilian population. Does anyone believe it is going to be effective in eliminating Hamas.

Originally Posted by whatnext

Egypt is always able to welcome in their Muslim brothers and sisters from Gaza.

To what end? Are you suggesting Egypt should setup a refugee camp for 1-2 million people so Israel can carpet bomb their homes?

The Canadian policy on this has been very balanced. Neither side is behaving in a particularly ethical way.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by casper

Egypt is not at "war" with anyone. Israel is.

I get why Egypt does not allow refugees in, but why does Egypt restrict humanitarians supplies to cross, especially as you say “they are not at war”?

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

There was an anti-Hamas protest in July. It ended in gunfire.

Ukrainians are dying such that don’t live under Russian rule. Iranian women and men are dying protesting their countries approach in killing women for not “covering up”.

Either Palestinians support Hamas or need to “fight” to get rid of them. If they’re not willing to fight for a Hamas-free Palestine, it’s hard to believe that they don’t support them and their methods.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by whatnext

At what point do we get to start referring to her as Diplomacy Barbie?

This kind of misogyny was disgusting when applied to Katherine McKenna and it's gross to apply to Joli. And I say this as someone who doesn't think Joli has been great in her job.

I honestly wonder if some of you actually talk to any women at all. I would be right pissed if somebody talked about my daughter, wife or mother like this. Or maybe y'all just don't care about the women in your lives?

You can criticize the performance of a woman professional without being a misogynist prick.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by shreddog

Ukrainians are dying such that don’t live under Russian rule. Iranian women and men are dying protesting their countries approach in killing women for not “covering up”.

Either Palestinians support Hamas or need to “fight” to get rid of them. If they’re not willing to fight for a Hamas-free Palestine, it’s hard to believe that they don’t support them and their methods.

To be fair, Palestine did actually have a civil war of sorts. That why Hamas only has Gaza left. And part of Israel's failed strategy has been that their actions in the West Bank with settlement expansion is undermining Fatah and strengthening Hamas.

[Truenorth00]

The Five Eyes Intelligence Directors held an unprecedented joint interview with 60 Minutes speaking out about China. Worth the watch.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-s...es-transcript/

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

This kind of misogyny was disgusting when applied to Katherine McKenna and it's gross to apply to Joli. And I say this as someone who doesn't think Joli has been great in her job.

I honestly wonder if some of you actually talk to any women at all. I would be right pissed if somebody talked about my daughter, wife or mother like this. Or maybe y'all just don't care about the women in your lives?

You can criticize the performance of a woman professional without being a misogynist prick.

It's been quite obvious for a while and on several topics that many, many SSPers don't have much contact with women in their lives.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

This kind of misogyny was disgusting when applied to Katherine McKenna and it's gross to apply to Joli. And I say this as someone who doesn't think Joli has been great in her job.

I honestly wonder if some of you actually talk to any women at all. I would be right pissed if somebody talked about my daughter, wife or mother like this. Or maybe y'all just don't care about the women in your lives?

You can criticize the performance of a woman professional without being a misogynist prick.

Mostly agree with you especially that particular phrase. But under this government (and some of the last) we have ministers chosen for their appearance not competence. Mostly women but men as well. Bernier for example. Can we not call that out? Trudeau gets accused of being a pretty boy obsessed with his clothes. Is this Misandrist?

[jamincan]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's been quite obvious for a while and on several topics that many, many SSPers don't have much contact with women in their lives.

Is this a reference to other implications you have made that trans-advocates must necessarily be anti-women or not know any women?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jamincan

Is this a reference to other implications you have made that trans-advocates must necessarily be anti-women or not know any women?

You're free to intepret it any way you like.

I call 'em as I see 'em.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by jamincan

Is this a reference to other implications you have made that trans-advocates must necessarily be anti-women or not know any women?

Well I do recall a conversation where some were arguing that “even though we all agree the data shows teenage girls rapes would statistically increase if we did this, it’s a reasonable price to pay in the grand scheme of things”.