Making Manitoba a "Have Province"

[Canadian Mind]

expand your ports

[caltrane74]

Manitoba you dont want to be a "have" province. Ottawa will just bend you over stick a hose up your ass, and suck all the money out.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Manitoba you dont want to be a "have" province. Ottawa will just bend you over stick a hose up your ass, and suck all the money out.

Yeah, well the position we are in right now isn't doing us any good either! Time for a change.

[big W]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Manitoba you dont want to be a "have" province. Ottawa will just bend you over stick a hose up your ass, and suck all the money out.

So being the poorest province west of NB (actually they are number 7 per capita thus poorer than 1 atlantic province) is any better. I would rather work like a shmoe and pay taxes like I do right now then be the bum asking me for change at the street corner for lack of a better analogy.

[ScottFromCalgary]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Manitoba you dont want to be a "have" province. Ottawa will just bend you over stick a hose up your ass, and suck all the money out.

Couldn't have said it any better. Anyone who has read the first chapter of a basic book on economics could tell you that large subsidies (equalization payments) are going to create massive inefficiences all around. Equalization is only preventing the free flow of labour and capital around the country to places where it is needed most (Alberta, BC, Ontario). By providing incentives for governments and citizens to maintain the status quo of horrible economic growth, low incomes, and deficit budgeting, everyone ends up being worse off.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by ScottFromCalgary

Couldn't have said it any better. Anyone who has read the first chapter of a basic book on economics could tell you that large subsidies (equalization payments) are going to create massive inefficiences all around. Equalization is only preventing the free flow of labour and capital around the country to places where it is needed most (Alberta, BC, Ontario). By providing incentives for governments and citizens to maintain the status quo of horrible economic growth, low incomes, and deficit budgeting, everyone ends up being worse off.

Really? What does that say for Alberta then?

Even though Ottawa still requires this province to compensate for the rest of the 'have-not' provinces (which I understand how that can be a real pain in the ass), do you think that Alberta would give up the opportunity to be in the financial position it is currently in to offset this issue/problem by becoming a have-not province?

I know I don't.

It's easy for Alberta to say "oh, trust us, you don't want to be in our position", and maybe Manitoba shouldn't be in that exact position, but again, Manitoba needs to beef up it's economic potential to become a more prominent and prosperous province. Just my opinion.

[ScottFromCalgary]

Alberta has more to gain though since we can achieve a surplus of nearly $10 Billion through conservative fiscal management. It is much easier for a province that can only achieve a surplus of $50 or $100 Million to say "screw it" and spend themselves into a deficit of $50 or $100 Million and collect the equalization payments. It's like your boss coming to you and saying "Hey if you don't save any money this month and want to run up your credit cards a little, I'll give you a raise".

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by ScottFromCalgary

Alberta has more to gain though since we can achieve a surplus of nearly $10 Billion through conservative fiscal management. It is much easier for a province that can only achieve a surplus of $50 or $100 Million to say "screw it" and spend themselves into a deficit of $50 or $100 Million and collect the equalization payments. It's like your boss coming to you and saying "Hey if you don't save any money this month and want to run up your credit cards a little, I'll give you a raise".

Man, you nailed it right on the head with "conservative fiscal management"; something that has been lacking in Manitoba for a long time.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by ScottFromCalgary

Alberta has more to gain though since we can achieve a surplus of nearly $10 Billion through conservative fiscal management. It is much easier for a province that can only achieve a surplus of $50 or $100 Million to say "screw it" and spend themselves into a deficit of $50 or $100 Million and collect the equalization payments. It's like your boss coming to you and saying "Hey if you don't save any money this month and want to run up your credit cards a little, I'll give you a raise".

This is worth printing and putting on a poster in the legislature.

Best post I've read on these forums. It's not as though this was something I was unaware of. Quite the contrary. However, you explained it very well.

Just my opinion of course...

[zoomer]

Originally Posted by ScottFromCalgary

Alberta has more to gain though since we can achieve a surplus of nearly $10 Billion through conservative fiscal management.

Alberta does not have a surplus due to conservative fiscal managment, it's because of that three letter word.. OIL.

Even the right wing Canadian Tax Payers Federation agrees, Alberta is a big spender in this Feb 2006 article:

The Fraser Institute recently released their Fiscal Performance Index for 2006. While Alberta continues to rank number one in the country in taxes and debt (or the lack thereof as the case may be), it has slipped from second place last year to eighth place this year when it comes to government spending. This is in no small part due to the exponential increase in government spending.

Alberta government program spending has increased by 113% over the past decade. Alberta is experiencing the same problem it faced when Premier Klein took over the reigns from Don Getty in 1992 – Alberta does not have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem. This spending problem has only become more serious now that Alberta is debt-free. In 2004-05 program spending increased by 11.9% over 2003-04, and has again increased this fiscal year by an additional 12.4% over 2004-05. In total, government program expenditures have increased by nearly 26% in just two years!

[IntotheWest]

Manitoba - and Winnipeg - need to first truly identify all that's wrong with the province (or at least perception), whether its fixable or not (such as being the "coldest city on the continent" - not fixable, but is it possible to offset this) , and then create an action plan to address it. Almost a SWOT analysis, for lack of a better term.

There always seems to be a "if we build it" mentality in Winnipeg to fix its fortunes (Juba definitely followed this theory)...it's not that easy. I also find that there is still a lot of old mentality in Winnipeg that keeps resorting back to the past (such as the Juba comments...for all the times I've heard my parents talk about Juba, geez) instead of looking forward. I thought Katz might be that guy, but was maybe better as a pure business citizen.

Winnipeg has a lot to offer...oddly enough, I really found that out when I travelled to work there two years ago as a "out-of-towner" (I spent the first 25 years of my life in the Peg), working for a year (yes, through winter) with folks from TO, Texas, and SoCal. Funny, the folks from TO were the biggest complainers of Winnipeg's cold and small-town "Nothing to do" feel...the folks from Texas and SoCal were genuinely impressed with Winnipeg and its diverse culture - and found the week of -40c almost funny (though, we all went to our homes on the weekends for a break).

Anyhow - as an example of the perception of MB and Winnipeg, while I was looking at the Rough Guides "World Party" website (another thread under "Canada"), they had Festival du Voyaguer listed as a world event (rightfully so)...but this is how they started off the article:

"OK, there’s loads of jokes about Winnipeg – even Canadians find it funny; and it’s regularly voted the most boring city in North America. But it’s in fact one of the country’s biggest cultural centres, and boasts Western Canada’s biggest winter festival, a ten-day jamboree held in Saint-Boniface, the French Quarter of town."

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

There always seems to be a "if we build it" mentality in Winnipeg to fix its fortunes (Juba definitely followed this theory)...it's not that easy. I also find that there is still a lot of old mentality in Winnipeg that keeps resorting back to the past (such as the Juba comments...for all the times I've heard my parents talk about Juba, geez) instead of looking forward.

In terms of the Stephen Juba comment, I was merely pointing out an individual who had some serious passion about Winnipeg, and was a strong advocator for the city. I wasn't trying to say we should keep things as they were in the past. Juba wanted to take Winnipeg into the 27th century and make it a true world class city. And even though he was a mayor back in the 50's, 60's and 70's, he had great vision for how Winnipeg should function many many years down the road. I think you just misunderstood my comment

As I stated before, I would like to see someone like him with a LONG-TERM vision for the city and who is committed to making it a top notch and envious place amongst Canadians.

[1ajs]

who to vote for hmm damed if i do damed if i don't hmm this is fucked bah

[1ajs]

mining was are back bone for a long time i been told the concervitives killed the mining industry in this province........

[1ajs]

umm irlands econimy is atm tanking................... due to minum wage being jacked up

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

umm irlands econimy is atm tanking................... due to minum wage being jacked up

Tell you what.. at least take some basic economics.

Also please look into and annual special feature put out by the Economist. It breaks down the world economy by region and nation. It is very insightful.

Although jacking up minimum wages doesn't help anything. The most effienct allocation of wages is those determined by the economy. Supply and demand.

[1ajs]

no you need beats your thinking holopchi

[Xelebes]

Ah yes, holopchi. I get the two confused.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

Ah yes, holopchi. I get the two confused.

o and don't forget to get your kanish's at gunns

[ScottFromCalgary]

Sweden is only growing because it realized in the mid-1990s that its system of extreme welfare capitalism would soon bankrupt the country, and the people voted for change. China is experiencing rapid growth because they are becoming more capitalist every day. It's that simple...