Canadian Retail Thread

[CMD UW]

/\ yep....

I would also like to add that Canada doesn't have a great selection of department stores like they do in the US.....Neiman Marcus, Macy's, Nordstroms et al. are stellar department stores, much better than anything in Canada.

[Holden West]

Originally Posted by MTL-514

although it is not a widespread phenomenon, there is still a dying breed of travellers out there who actually go to europe for reasons other than their selection of chain stores.

Not me--last time I was in France to check out the MONOPRIX stores I had to walk totally around this Louvre thing that was like eight blocks long and was totally blocking my way.

Seriously, though, I've never been to a Target but was always curious to check one out because I've heard so much about the famous designers (Isaac Mizrahi, Michael Graves, Todd Oldham) and that they produce a lot of affordable, cool stylish items, almost like an IKEA. The comparison puzzled me although I haven't set foot in a Zellers for years. Is Zellers that much improved? Or is Target not that great?

[neilson]

Zellers IS Target, Canadian Style.

I wish Target would just get it over with and buy Zellers.

[Mike K.]

Zellers is owned by Hudsons Bay, isn't it?

Anyways, to answer your question, Holden, Zellers is still crap. The only thing I'd get there are batteries and maybe a prescription if there's an inhouse pharmacy. Sears is a step above, and above that is the Bay but the best was Eatons.

[Holden West]

Thanks, Koz; I suspected as much. I'm suspicious of the Target = Zellers (or Woolworths!?) equation. I checked out the Target website and they have lots of cool stuff. What's up, Neilson? Ever been to Zellers or just guessing?

Zellers is part of the HBC empire, along with Home Oufitters and Designer Depot.

I have shopped in Zellers. I bought a litre of motor oil there in 1988 or '89.

CMD UW, those US stores are truly amazing but wasn't that Eaton's last marketing gasp--desperately trying to emulate the upscale US department stores? Failed miserably and was the final nail in the coffin.

[hackunion]

^ Aubergine!

[neilson]

Originally Posted by Holden West

Thanks, Koz; I suspected as much. I'm suspicious of the Target = Zellers (or Woolworths!?) equation. I checked out the Target website and they have lots of cool stuff. What's up, Neilson? Ever been to Zellers or just guessing?

Zellers is part of the HBC empire, along with Home Oufitters and Designer Depot.

I have shopped in Zellers. I bought a litre of motor oil there in 1988 or '89.

CMD UW, those US stores are truly amazing but wasn't that Eaton's last marketing gasp--desperately trying to emulate the upscale US department stores? Failed miserably and was the final nail in the coffin.

Yes, in 2002 I went to numerous Zellers locations in the GTA while in town for World Youth Day.

[duper]

^
Numerous Zellers locations while here for World Youth Day. Are you a conaisseur of discount department stores?

[Rendar]

Originally Posted by Holden West

CMD UW, those US stores are truly amazing but wasn't that Eaton's last marketing gasp--desperately trying to emulate the upscale US department stores? Failed miserably and was the final nail in the coffin.

No, it wasn't.

You have to go back to the early 90s to see what was going wrong with Canadian department stores. In the case of Eaton's, they used to kick ass. Then the dip-shit spoiled grandsons decided that certain departments weren't making enough money so they had Eaton's stores go to 75% clothing. SEVENTY-FIVE percent! That's outrageous considering the high volativity of the fasion market.

Then they decided that Canadians didn't want sales and started the whole 'Warehouse Direct' thing. It didn't work. Eaton's was a department store, not a Winners.

Their last push could have done something, but by that time there just wasn't enough money kicking about to help the store.

After Sears took over Eaton's, there was again a chance, but Sears just wasn't interested enough. Plus they relaunched the brand AFTER the holiday season which was idiotic. The Aubergine commercial was brilliant, but unfortunately for most people inbetween Vancouver and Toronto, it didn't really mean much.

What Eaton's should have done is renovate all their stores just as HBC was doing at the time, keep their awesome selection, and make it a destination.

[neilson]

Originally Posted by duper

^
Numerous Zellers locations while here for World Youth Day. Are you a conaisseur of discount department stores?

You got that right.

[Holden West]

Originally Posted by neilson

Yes, in 2002 I went to numerous Zellers locations in the GTA while in town for World Youth Day.

Jesus, were you being punished for breaking curfew or something?

I like the music in the new Zellers commercials:
"The Littlest Birds" by the the Be Good Tanyas.
"When The Night Feels My Song" by the Bedouin Sound Clash
So they're trying to improve their image. Maybe they should start with the crap they sell. Har!

Rendar, you are correct, especially about the grandson's incompetence. But there was probably nothing anybody could have done to ward off the Wal*Mart tsunami. But I'm certain they were trying to take it more "upscale" by ditching the small goods and focussing on the fashion/home furnishings core.

The fact we disagree is a good example of their muddled marketing.

[Rendar]

I have a thesis that I dug up from the UofT that was on the fall of Eaton's, but I'm not sure where it is. It was a very interesting read.

[miketoronto]

Eatons made some bad choices which helped lead to it's falling as a retail empire.

EATONS expanded way to much. And sadly one of their moves that helped their downfall was their pride in downtowns.
EATONS opened department stores in downtowns of many small cities, that just could not support department stores anymore. Ontop of that they built mini Eaton Centres in these small cities. And that lead to massive loss of money as these malls just could not compete.

Eaton Centre worked in Toronto. But it did not work in Brantford, Kitchener, Peterborough, and other cities they built these malls in.

The EATONS family just did not care anymore, when it comes down to it.

The Downtown Toronto EATONS was "the grand lady" of them all. SEARS while maintaining a nice store, really did not use the downtown store to their advantage. Yonge Dundas is a huge money making spot. But SEARS just does not care.

The SEARS store in downtown Toronto is still in many ways an EATONS, as regular SEARS stores don't have the selection the downtown SEARS has or $200 shirts. But SEARS really could have done even more if they wanted to.

SIMONS is our next major Canadian store I think. SIMONS seems to be expanding slow and making money. I hope they don't expand everywhere as they are a special treat when you go to Quebec. But I think they may be the next famous family run retail store in Canada. But thats because the family cares about running a good store.

The EATONS thing though is just a disgrace to Canada if you ask me. How we let a national icon like that go down, is just sad.
My mom remembers when she was dating my dad and she would come to Toronto to visit him. The main thing you had to go was go to EATONS downtown.
That place was a special place, and a legend. Even the newer store that was built when EATON CENTRE was built, still had memories to it, and I remember special trips to that store at Christmas time.

But man EATONS before the family let it go down, knew how to do things. If you ever see the COLLEGE PARK store in Toronto and see the CARLU floor. Man, EATONS was amazing.

[Tony]

Wow.. the crazy CAPITALIZATION of the store names is annoying.

[Rendar]

The downfall of Eaton's started many, many years ago with their dismantling of their catalogue system.

[Mike K.]

"When The Night Feels My Song" by the Bedouin Sound Clash

I concur, good song.

[SSLL]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

My views.

I just don't get the obsession with Target, when it is no different then a WOOLWORTHS or ZELLERS. Just don't get it when people in Toronto make weekend trips to go shop at Target. ITS A ZELLERS WITH A DIFFERENT NAME. My mom agrees with me to about that.
----

And the European chains are no better. H&M, MANGO, ZARA. Soon there will be no need to visit Europe. Because all their stores will be in the Eaton Centre anyway. I will admit I have bought pants from ZARA($120.00 buck pants down to $30.00. Had to buy). But still, lets nuture some Canadian stuff for once, again.
----
Le Chateau manufactures something like 50% or 60% of their clothing in Canada.

Hudson's Bay Company the oldest corporation in North America, is totally redoing their downtown stores now, to make them more classy and bring them back to the 50's heyday attractions they once were in many of our cities and still are to some extent. So far the renovations at the downtown Toronto store are amazing.

miketoronto, you crack me up! I think Target is different from Woolworths in that you'd have to travel in a time machine (or go to the UK, Australia, NZ or South Africa) to visit one.

I agree with the Europe comment. Now that I live in London, there are constantly people asking me if the Tesco is behind that big clock tower

I didn't know Le Château manufactured so much clothing in Canada. I frankly didn't realize we had that much polyester and mesh in the country!

[Rendar]

Originally Posted by SSLL

I agree with the Europe comment. Now that I live in London, there are constantly people asking me if the Tesco is behind that big clock tower

Just to let you know, I'm jealous

I can't get time off of work this year to go to London and it is by far my favourity city

[BlackRedGold]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

Second. I don't get the obsession with Target. Yes I am obsessed with certain stores when I visit the USA, like Marshall Fields.
But Target. Come on, it looks just like ZELLERS, and sells the same crap we get at home already. They sell cleaning stuff, and cheap clothing. I just don't get the obsession with Target, when it is no different then a WOOLWORTHS or ZELLERS.

If Zellers and Target are the same then why has every Target (or SuperTarget) I've been in, been neat and orderly with well displayed prices while every Zellers I've ever been in has been dirty, disorderly, and cramped? I barely find what I'm looking for in Zellers and if I do find it, there's either no price displayed or the price displayed is confusing as hell.

But really I wish we could ship out some of the American chain stores and nuture home grown chain stores(if we must have chains in every single place). Because the selection now between the USA and Canada is very slim. Soon there will be no need to even go to the USA for a slice of something different.

And the European chains are no better. H&M, MANGO, ZARA. Soon there will be no need to visit Europe. Because all their stores will be in the Eaton Centre anyway. I will admit I have bought pants from ZARA($120.00 buck pants down to $30.00. Had to buy). But still, lets nuture some Canadian stuff for once, again.

But as those big chains from other countries come to Canada, there are new chains being developed in other countries. There is still plenty different in the US. Even the chains tend to be different from country to country.

[miketoronto]

I don't really shop that much. But I do worry about retail, because it is one of the factors in a vibrant streetlife in our cities.

Anyway who needs TARGET etc. I just shop at the normal stores and wait for sales.

I seem to always find something at WAL-MART prices or better, but better quality at regular stores.

It just takes going into the stores and looking.

Example. I was downtown shopping on Yonge. Went into the David Bitton store. Got a pair of black shorts I was looking for. Regular price $79.00. I got them on sale for $18.00. Last years stock.

Also on Yonge Street, I went into a really expensive store that was doing a renovation sale. Got a $80.00 shirt for $9.99. I know the prices from that store before the reno sale, and those shirts were $80.00.

THE BAY always runs great sales in the menswear department. I get lots of designer stuff there for cheap. I work there usually at Christmas. So that is when I stock up on clothing also at reduced rates. Got $100.00 pants for 30 bucks with all my discounts.

So like I said. Who needs TARGET. Just shop the normal stores and get good deals. Just takes a nice stroll downtown on the street to find the sales.