[Gatineau] New Hospital | 600 beds

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Harley613

It's pretty safe to say this won't be built in Gatineau proper or anywhere on that side of the Gatineau river. I would guess it will be built along Pink/Vanier/Allumettieres. It makes me wonder about the Boucher Forest. The community has been asking for protection for the forest for years without any firm commitment from the municipality. A parcel on the Northwest corner of the Vanier/Allumettieres intersection would be an excellent spot for the hospital and is slated for tram service. Allumettieres gets you on the 5 in 8 minutes and downtown in under ten minutes. Also the parcel I highlighted does not cross any of the trails in the forest.

I was thinking roughly the same spot as an option, but across the street between Allumettières and McConnell.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Doctor salaries are still substantially lower across the board than Ontario. But yes they have converged somewhat and in Gatineau the tax differential is not important as that is based on place of residence rather than work. (as opposed to moving Toronto to Montreal for example)

So this is interesting news also for the Ottawa side. Gatineau residents are big users of the Ottawa hospitals so this will increase capacity in effect in Ottawa also. While lots of people complain about the cross-border users I wonder what the budgetary impact will be for Ottawa.

Between the new Gatineau hospital and a larger Civic (more or less 300 beds), that will be a huge capacity boost in the region.

I don't think it will have a huge impact on revenues in Ottawa, but will reduce waiting lists significantly.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Will it? Do Gatineau residents use Ottawa hospitals for want of beds or for want of services (or a combination of both)?

We are basically talking about the same thing, no?

In any event, yesterday on the radio the Minister was talking about expanded specialized services like cardiology, which is very limited in Gatineau at the moment.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I was thinking roughly the same spot as an option, but across the street between Allumettières and McConnell.



Between the new Gatineau hospital and a larger Civic (more or less 300 beds), that will be a huge capacity boost in the region.

I don't think it will have a huge impact on revenues in Ottawa, but will reduce waiting lists significantly.

Well...

It's a bit of an urban legend in *Ottawa* nursing circles that Quebec patients at Ottawa hospitals get discharged later because they represent new money coming in from outside the system.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Doctor salaries are still substantially lower across the board than Ontario. But yes they have converged somewhat and in Gatineau the tax differential is not important as that is based on place of residence rather than work. (as opposed to moving Toronto to Montreal for example)

So this is interesting news also for the Ottawa side. Gatineau residents are big users of the Ottawa hospitals so this will increase capacity in effect in Ottawa also. While lots of people complain about the cross-border users I wonder what the budgetary impact will be for Ottawa.

Some articles for you. Assuming you can read at least some French.

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/20...rio-selon-lidq

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...nada-politique

https://www.lapresse.ca/debats/chron...en-ontario.php

https://lactualite.com/politique/pou...ins-ontariens/

[Aylmer]

I'm particularly concerned about the location of this new hospital. For such a large employer and destination, it would be a massive oversight to locate it out of reach from frequent, reliable transit options.

Carrière by the Casino is a good option, especially if EMS can use the BRT corridor for quick, traffic-free access from Gatineau and downtown. Vanier/Allumettières isn't a terrible choice either, with the added benefit of providing a good anchor to the Plateau LRT line.

The location I'd be most excited about would be at UQO (in its generous parking lot overlooking Squaw Bay). From a transit perspective, it would be at the intersection of the Plateau and Aylmer LRT lines as well as the tail end of the Rapibus. For emergency vehicles, the Rapibus ROW provides quick access from Gatineau, and the Gamelin/Gat Parkway provide rapid access to Hull and the Plateau. It would also help to consolidate the University's activities and facilities in one location, seeding the long-desired Cité Universitaire.

[Acajack]

The head of the CISSSO, which oversees hospitals and public health care in the Outaouais, was on Radio-Canada this morning.

I found it interesting that when staffing came up, she mentioned that over 500 of the 9000 people employed by the CISSSO are Ontario residents. Since the CISSSO covers a larger area than Gatineau itself (all the way up to Maniwaki for example), in Gatineau itself it's probably just under 10% of CISSSO employees who are Ontario residents.

Now, the percentage of Quebec residents at an Ottawa hospital like Montfort is most certainly WAY higher than that.

And even at other hospitals like the General I'd suspect the % of Quebecers employed is quite a bit higher than the CISSSO figure.

But it still runs against the perception that no one from Ontario works in Quebec (except for federal public servants) and that *everyone* on the Quebec side works in Ottawa.

The principal of one of my kids' high schools actually lives somewhere in the south end of Ottawa I think.

[CityTech]

Given how high Quebec taxes are, I could see there being an appeal to living in Ontario even if you work in Quebec. Could be a lot of those 500 people are Franco-Ontarians who appreciate working in a more francophone environment than what the General, Civic, etc. would offer.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Given how high Quebec taxes are, I could see there being an appeal to living in Ontario even if you work in Quebec. Could be a lot of those 500 people are Franco-Ontarians who appreciate working in a more francophone environment than what the General, Civic, etc. would offer.

The General and Montfort have always been the hospitals of choice for francophone nurses and support staff. Until the Gatineau Hospital gets rid of their 3rd world hospital quality ranking they won't be attracting very much talent from this side of the river.

[harls]

I don't think they will touch the Boucher Forest (at Allumettières and Vanier).. even if they raze the old RV dealer they will need more space than that. The south side along McConnell has had a 'for sale' sign up for as long as I can remember (J.OT13 stated this earlier).

There is also space on boul de la Technologie near Haute Plaines and the 5... but that might be too close to the Hull hospital.

I read somewhere that the 600 beds is not the actual number. Gatineau's other hospitals are over capacity and this new hospital would absorb those surplus beds, but I may be wrong. It's happened once or twice.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Some articles for you. Assuming you can read at least some French.

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/20...rio-selon-lidq

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...nada-politique

https://www.lapresse.ca/debats/chron...en-ontario.php

https://lactualite.com/politique/pou...ins-ontariens/

Yeah if you read carefully this is one study and disputed by the Doctors Union (Association is official name but let's call a spade a spade) though of course they would say that.

I can tell you from first hand information ER, GP and Surgeons I know who have moved in one direction or the other talk of a significant pay difference. It is really hard to get accurate pay information for doctors. Most of us would be shocked at their true compensation levels. Taxes are mostly deferred so not as big an issue. I can also tell you the same sources tell me even in the "English" hospitals many patients are from Gatineau so there will be an impact of Gatineau gets a decent hospital.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

I don't think they will touch the Boucher Forest (at Allumettières and Vanier).. even if they raze the old RV dealer they will need more space than that. The south side along McConnell has had a 'for sale' sign up for as long as I can remember (J.OT13 stated this earlier).

.

I agree about the Boucher forest. It's become a bit of a cause célèbre and a sacred cow. Any woods on its fringes that aren't officially designated as part of the park and protected at the moment would likely be the focus of a public outcry if there were plans to clear it.

Even if it was for a much-needed new hospital.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yeah if you read carefully this is one study and disputed by the Doctors Union (Association is official name but let's call a spade a spade) though of course they would say that.

I can tell you from first hand information ER, GP and Surgeons I know who have moved in one direction or the other talk of a significant pay difference. It is really hard to get accurate pay information for doctors. Most of us would be shocked at their true compensation levels. Taxes are mostly deferred so not as big an issue. I can also tell you the same sources tell me even in the "English" hospitals many patients are from Gatineau so there will be an impact of Gatineau gets a decent hospital.

Those articles are from different years, citing different studies. But I do agree that there is a lot of smoke and mirrors when it comes to doctor's pay.

In my circle one thing I have noticed is Québécois doctors giving up or simply not taking Ontario licences anymore. Whereas before you had a significant number of Gatineau doctors who were licensed in both provinces to supplement their income.

This is a very recent trend - in the past 5 years or so. Which would roughly coincide with the Barrette-Couillard pay hikes.

Regarding the shortfall for Ottawa hospitals if Gatinois patients stay home, I take it you say my post from a few days ago about the "urban legend"?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

I read somewhere that the 600 beds is not the actual number. Gatineau's other hospitals are over capacity and this new hospital would absorb those surplus beds, but I may be wrong. It's happened once or twice.

Yes, there will be some musical chairs in terms of beds and the total number of new beds will not be 600.

Some beds at the existing hospitals will be repurposed (to stuff like LTC I'd assume).

The existing hospitals (Hull and Gatineau) have 200 beds each.

When all is said and done, the net gain in beds will be 240 or something like that. The Minister noted this was 40% more than the CAQ election promise of 175 new beds.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Those articles are from different years, citing different studies. But I do agree that there is a lot of smoke and mirrors when it comes to doctor's pay.

In my circle one thing I have noticed is Québécois doctors giving up or simply not taking Ontario licences anymore. Whereas before you had a significant number of Gatineau doctors who were licensed in both provinces to supplement their income.

This is a very recent trend - in the past 5 years or so. Which would roughly coincide with the Barrette-Couillard pay hikes.

Regarding the shortfall for Ottawa hospitals if Gatinois patients stay home, I take it you say my post from a few days ago about the "urban legend"?

Yeah I think it was the third article that had a bit more meat. Regardless the pay difference perception at least is still there. It is also not as easy to move between provinces as people imagine. We are very much 10 different countries in many ways. Maybe it's easier to move to Gatineau but I know getting a license in Montreal is difficult. Easier in a French hospital but still not a given. Like taxes I think medium term the future is better in Quebec. The budget situation is much better. The trajectory in Ontario is to cut pay (justifiably in my opinion). Same with income taxes.



I am not sure about the beds urban legend. I know all ERs in Ottawa have large numbers of Gatineau users. I guess some of that is people having accidents or getting sick while in Ottawa but yes there are many who drive for the purpose. Especially if they have a complicated illness. Children of course have no hospital in Gatineau. I know people on the Gatineau side who use the Montreal Children's system for specialized care but CHEO is closer for more basic but still complex care.

Bottom line no matter how you slice it this is good for the region to have a decent hospital on the "other" side of the river.

[rocketphish]

The whole "Gatineau vs Ottawa as a place to live" tangent is an interesting and worthwhile discussion, and at this point I think it deserves its own thread. So here's where you can now find it

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=244499

[J.OT13]

Some news on the new Gatineau hospital. Nothing concrete yet.

The CISSSO's DG has had multiple meetings on the project over the last month and a bit. One of the meetings discussed a new hospital proposal in Vaudreil-Soulange, as similar project.

We can expect a nomination for head of the project within 2 weeks. The new hospital will probably cost multiple Billion dollars.

We should have a general idea about the site location by end of year. Road and transit access will be key.

The project is still expected to be complete "well before 2030" according to the Health Minister and CISSSO.

More on Le Droit.

31 janvier 2021

Nouvel hôpital: une nomination imminente pour la direction du projet

JUSTINE MERCIER
Le Droit


Le nouvel hôpital à Vaudreuil-Soulanges, dont les premières maquettes ont été dévoilées la semaine dernière par le gouvernement.

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/s...db5f35a4c694da

[jt-mtl]

My gut tells me with all the development going on in Aylmer, the hospital will be based in the west end. Where? I dont know exactly, but somewhere off Allumetieres would make sense as the ambulances could take Allumetieres quite quickly to get to the new hospital.

I would not be surprised if it is the empty land area behind the Canadian Tire in the Plateau.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by jt-mtl

I would not be surprised if it is the empty land area behind the Canadian Tire in the Plateau.

If memory serves, I believe that land was already allocated for the new arena complex

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by jt-mtl

My gut tells me with all the development going on in Aylmer, the hospital will be based in the west end. Where? I dont know exactly, but somewhere off Allumetieres would make sense as the ambulances could take Allumetieres quite quickly to get to the new hospital.

I would not be surprised if it is the empty land area behind the Canadian Tire in the Plateau.

I'm pretty sure that land is slated for future retail, I think it might even be owned by a retail developer already.

EDIT: I looked it up and most of the land beside Canadian Tire is privately owned, except for a small parcel along the road that the City owns. It's zoned commercial. I'm pretty sure it's future lies in retail expansion. The plot I posted below is Half Residential/Half Commercial zoning and it's subdivided into a bunch of little lots with various owners. I don't think that Rona is long for this world, I could see it being bought out by the Government as part of an expropriation. Bonhomme Building Materials could use a new modern facility bought with expropriation funds as well.

My gut is going with part or all of this parcel:
[IMG]Screenshot 2021-02-04 080756 by harley613, on Flickr[/IMG]

[J.OT13]

Aylmer or Le Plateau seems like a good bet. Access to Allumetières and the future Tram are pretty much a given. And considering Buckingham, (old) Gatineau and Hull are already served by hospitals, the quickly densifying west end is the next logical step.

The CAQ will have to invest heavily in the older hospitals as well to bring them up to par with Ottawa's facilities.