The Independent (180 Kingsway) | 64.7m | 19fl | Completed

[officedweller]

I'm hoping for a tall streetwall flatiron building at Kingsway & Main (whenever that'll be)

[Architype]

^That would be a great & obvious location for a flatiron building. The area has to have more densely built development, and this one at 19 stories should do just fine.

[jlousa]

Here are the revised boards I had promised earlier.

Summary of changes handout
http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/plannin...es-handout.pdf

Summary of changes boards
http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/plannin...ges-boards.pdf

Community Feedback
http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/plannin...backboards.pdf

Mount Pleasant Plan Context.
http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/plannin...pcp-boards.pdf

Think it's an improvement but I really don't like the arcade feature and feel it still needs one more revision. Getting there though.

[officedweller]

Thanks for posting.

The arcade doesn't look as bad as I thought it would, since it's 2 storeys tall. It reminds me of the Main Post Office facade.
The brick does, however, look overbearing, especially in the red colour and with the thick transfer floor immediately above the arcade.
A lighter colour brick would probably work better (to reduce the noticeability of the disproportion between the thin columns and the heavy transfer beam above) - maybe the yellow brick that was rejected for 1 Kingsway?

Even the Lee Building breaks up the massing with colour changes.
There also needs to be some sort of column capital element, otherwise it looks too utilitarian.
Either that, or if they are going for a "modern" look - try wooden laminated columns or steel columns at funky angles.

[hollywoodnorth]

bubble gum wall ....... COOOOOLLL!

[flight_from_kamakura]

damn, i just strongly oppose the reductions in height and density on this one. cut the parking down to the bone and let this one go as otherwise initially proposed, like these 'hoodlums are so shortsighted. uh, that local bar/cafe/grocery you like so much? you just reduced their potential customer base by 100 people. oh, and when you need allies on your transit push? 100 fewer people there too. oh yeah, and nice little bit of irony that you find gentrification so annoying that you're forcing the spillover demand onto further rezoning applications. brilliant calculus there mt pleasant, clever work, i tip my hat to you.

[hollywoodnorth]

I wills ay it again .... bubble gum wall ....... COOOOOLLL!

[agrant]

Sounds disgusting. Reminds me of the bottom of a table at Denny's.

At any rate, even though it seems most of the residents are asking for a lower tower, at no more than 15 to 16 stories, it's still pretty big in my books. I just hope the Broadway side remains at 8 stories or so.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by agrant

Sounds disgusting. Reminds me of the bottom of a table at Denny's.

At any rate, even though it seems most of the residents are asking for a lower tower, at no more than 15 to 16 stories, it's still pretty big in my books. I just hope the Broadway side remains at 8 stories or so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gum_Wall

[agrant]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gum_Wall

Looks about what I thought.

I would have preferred something like this.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_padlocks Although it works best for a bridge.

[PROSTSHOCKER]

Originally Posted by flight_from_kamakura

damn, i just strongly oppose the reductions in height and density on this one. cut the parking down to the bone and let this one go as otherwise initially proposed, like these 'hoodlums are so shortsighted. uh, that local bar/cafe/grocery you like so much? you just reduced their potential customer base by 100 people. oh, and when you need allies on your transit push? 100 fewer people there too. oh yeah, and nice little bit of irony that you find gentrification so annoying that you're forcing the spillover demand onto further rezoning applications. brilliant calculus there mt pleasant, clever work, i tip my hat to you.

These same people don't want a subway/skytrain yet want a street car on broadway since the B-line is overcrowded and slow despite that a street car would pretty much be just like the b-line but on rails. Pretty irritated about this too but in all honesty the only people who would show up to these things are the NIMBYs.

[quobobo]

I've been seeing posters for the "Residents Association of Mount Pleasant" all over Main Street - they seem to be a one-issue organization devoted to opposing this project. They're genuinely awful (claiming that limiting housing supply will somehow keep Mount Pleasant affordable, etc) but they seem to be fairly well organized.

This project needs our support, especially from SSPers in Mount Pleasant. If you have the time, please contact city hall to express your support for the project - ironically there is a very good page on that site explaining exactly what you can do.

Here's the letter I sent, feel free to use it as a template:

Mayor and Council

453 West 12th Avenue
Vancouver, B.C. V5Y 1V4

RE: Rezoning Application 180 Kingsway / 228 – 246 East Broadway

I would like to express my strong support for Rize Alliance’s Rezoning Application for a proposed development at 180 Kingsway / 228 – 246 East Broadway.

Mount Pleasant is a wonderful neighbourhood with many amenities, cultural and otherwise. Unfortunately it also has very limited housing supply - I have multiple friends who would love to move here, but it is very difficult to find an affordable apartment that isn't listed on the Bedbug Registry. More housing is desperately needed in the area - blocking this project will limit the ability of the market to provide new housing supply, putting even more upward pressure on housing prices.

The development would also be highly transit-centric, as it would be close to an express bus line and four trolley buses. It would be terribly environmentally irresponsible to prohibit construction here and force people out toward the car-dependent suburbs. For these reasons I strongly urge you to allow this development and others in the neighbourhood.

Thank you very much for your time,
(name and address)

[logan5]

I remember seeing a survey from one of the meetings showing a majority of the attendees owning their property while at the same time a majority of the attendees living within a few blocks of the proposed project. This is impossible of course as it is almost all rental units in the area. So I see this as a power play by the residents in the city hall area in Mt. Pleasant. They arrogantly presume that they speak for all Mt. Pleasant residents, when in reality, most residents have no knowledge of the project, let alone the facts about the project.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by logan5

I remember seeing a survey from one of the meetings showing a majority of the attendees owning their property while at the same time a majority of the attendees living within a few blocks of the proposed project. This is impossible of course as it is almost all rental units in the area. So I see this as a power play by the residents in the city hall area in Mt. Pleasant. They arrogantly presume that they speak for all Mt. Pleasant residents, when in reality, most residents have no knowledge of the project, let alone the facts about the project.

I would say that more than 50% of the area to the east & north of Broadway is condos, especially since quite a few former rentals have been converted. Also the area south of Broadway is mainly single family homes plus the addition of new condo buildings near Main & 12th.

[jlousa]

Unfortunately I don't support this project quite yet, it's almost there but I still feel it needs more work. I just feel the project isn't all that well thought out and being probably the marquee project for the area it's not good enough. Hopefully version 2.5 will be enough to sway myself and others on the fence, because I agree this project needs all the support it can get.

[quobobo]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Unfortunately I don't support this project quite yet, it's almost there but I still feel it needs more work. I just feel the project isn't all that well thought out and being probably the marquee project for the area it's not good enough. Hopefully version 2.5 will be enough to sway myself and others on the fence, because I agree this project needs all the support it can get.

I'm going to be chatting with someone at Rize about this project fairly soon - any issues in particular you'd like me to ask about?

Personally I'm not crazy about the amount of parking, but otherwise I'm on board.

[jlousa]

I think the new density is more suitable then the original proposal and I think the whole revised proposal is much better overall, but being perhaps the marque development for the area (at least for the immediate future) I don't think it's quite good enough. If this one another piece of infill then it would be completely acceptable.

What would I change, lover the height of the 19 storey tower at least another storey, perhaps I'd even go down 2. I do like the fact that they are doing a flat iron style building as it plays homage to Kingsway, think the massing at Broadway and Kingsway could benefit from a similar flat iron massing instead of the current street wall. So ideally I would transfer a little height from the 10th ave tower and place it on a reconfigured Broadway massing.
I'd also prefer they just provide a few extra ft of sidewalk and do away with
with the arcade entirely, there doesn't seem to be much support for it. Also unlike the Lee building this arcade won't provide any summer shade as that whole side is already shaded. The gum wall I also don't care for but I feel it probably suits the area so I'm fine with it if the locals are. Watson could be very special if we make it so, I feel this project isn't doing it's best here and instead is concentrating on 10th Ave more so.
Most of my critiques would require a major redesign though and I don't see it happening, so that said, if they were to lower the higher tower a floor or two it would be enough for me to voice modest support for it.

[Architype]

I don't think anyone posted the actual link for the development, here:

http://www.rize.ca/developments/work/kingsway-broadway

[logan5]

When I look at what's developing around Olympic Village, I see the same monotony taking shape as has taken shape in downtown Vancouver, and the area is just as cold and uninviting. The Woodwards building is 40 stories tall yet somehow seems less imposing than any 14 or 16 story condos being built around Olympic Village.

So reducing the height at 180 Kingsway really does nothing but shut out potential new residents. If the character of the building is strong then I don't think height matters.

I'm not sure what more can be done. This looks like one of the best projects being proposed in the city right now and I hope it continues at the IGA site, and the Kingsgate site, where I suspect we'll see (for the sake of my ego) a 26 or maybe even a 30 story tower go up.

[jlousa]

Have to disagree with you regarding heights, think Mt Pleasant and surrounding areas can use more density but w/o being tall. Heck an FSR of 3 is plenty dense and can be done easily in 4-6 stories and would do more then towers would to improve affordability in this city.