HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 1:35 PM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 11,917
$1,400 for a 2-bed is way below market rent. Most 2-beds in Toronto are going for closer to $3,000 now - smaller ones for a bit less, nicer ones for a bit more. $1,400 is way below market for even 10 years ago, yet alone today.

Downtown Toronto's traffic is awful as it has very limited auto infrastructure and what little it does have the City seems determined to rip out. I would generally advise not driving there at all, if you can avoid it.

The Gardiner itself is in the middle of a 10-year reconstruction which isn't helping - it's just unbelievably terrible to drive around downtown right now. Like comically, terribly, unbelievably bad. The amount of construction downtown is just destroying it between the Ontario Line and Gardiner construction, basically half the streets in the city are closed or heavily restricted.

Exhibition / Liberty Village is an especially bad spot as it has basically terrible transit too. The Ontario Line is a new subway line getting built to it which should make it a bit better, but that won't open for another 6-8 years.

The rest of the GTA is more typically American traffic on freeways, but it's also very bad - like LA levels, if not worse as there has been little in capacity expansion while the GTA grows by a quarter million a year. And yet local politics still talk about cancelling the few capacity projects that actually are underway.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 2:24 PM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
The Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Otisburgh
Posts: 46,647
From the Canada Forum:

Quote:
Originally Posted by haljackey View Post
More graphs!

__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. (Bertrand Russell)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 2:38 PM
bridge25 bridge25 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 7
What's driving the relative growth in Halifax? It seems like an outlier for the Canadian Maritimes.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 2:48 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 32,058
It doesn't really make sense to compare transnational when the methodologies for the annual estimates aren't aligned. You're comparing two datasets with different inputs. Also the U.S. annual estimates have been outrageously bad in recent years compared to the official decennial counts.

But I get it. There isn't really anything else at this point, and it's fun to compare.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 3:04 PM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
The Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Otisburgh
Posts: 46,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by bridge25 View Post
What's driving the relative growth in Halifax? It seems like an outlier for the Canadian Maritimes.
It is the alpha city (if there is one) for the Maritime Provinces, by quite a large margin.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. (Bertrand Russell)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 4:59 PM
edale edale is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
You should check out the traffic. LA traffic is a comparative breeze.

I was at a wedding last summer, near downtown, in an area called Exhibition Place, maybe a mile from our downtown hotel. Traveling back and forth about a half-dozen times, over a normal weekend, no major city events, took over an hour every single time.

There's basically one small freeway serving the core, and it's perpetually u/c. There are no other major arterials anywhere around the core. E-W travel absolutely sucks. N-S not as bad.
It's funny you say that because just a couple days ago I was talking to a coworker who had recently gotten back from a week long trip to Toronto to visit friends. The first thing he said when I asked how he liked his time in Toronto was "it was a nice city but oh my god the traffic is next level." He said it was worse than anything he'd ever seen here in LA, and it prevented him from doing some of the stuff he had planned to do. He said the freeways were like the 405 at rush hour but all the time, and the surface streets were also gridlocked throughout the downtown area. Probably 3 of the 5 minutes he spent talking about his trip was devoted to bemoaning the traffic! You know traffic is a problem when even a lifelong Angeleno is gobsmacked by it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 5:06 PM
Nouvellecosse's Avatar
Nouvellecosse Nouvellecosse is offline
Volatile Pacivist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 9,668
Yeah it was the same for me back in 2021. We stayed at the Cambridge Suites on Richmond and mostly got around by walking. But we decided to go to Wonderland (amusement park) on the edge of town at one point so we decided to drive. We left at around 2pm to get ahead of the evening rush, but ended up spending TWO HOURS just trying to get onto the Gardiner which was under 1km away. By the time we got to the on-ramp it was so late we just turned around and went back. Went the next day and left a lot earlier lol.
__________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw
Don't ask people not to debate a topic. Just stop making debatable assertions. Problem solved.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 5:26 PM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
The Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Otisburgh
Posts: 46,647
Toronto traffic is horrific. One would be advised to avoid the freeways for much of the day (and night).
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. (Bertrand Russell)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 5:32 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 70,081
Canadian cities on average have way worse traffic than one would expect. This ranges from the obvious biggest ones but it's also pretty bad in mid-sized cities like Ottawa and even those one rung lower like Halifax.

When I'm abroad in megacities I am often bracing myself for horrendous traffic delays and I almost always find myself saying "well, it's no so bad compared to home".
__________________
No, you're not on my ignore list. Because I don't have one.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 5:51 PM
niwell's Avatar
niwell niwell is offline
sick transit, gloria
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Roncesvalles, Toronto
Posts: 11,263
I've learned not to trust mapping apps for route selection in central Toronto that much - especially leaving downtown. They don't really seem to understand travel differences on Lakeshore vs Gardiner, the former of which can be faster if you're headed to the West End and stick to the left lane (avoiding congestion at the Gardiner onramps). Richmond/Adelaide can often also be faster than trying to wait and get on the Gardiner right in the core.

When I lived in Johannesburg the biggest complaint (even before crime) was usually traffic. It could be pretty bad especially when traffic lights were out, but coming from Toronto I honestly found it pretty easy to deal with. Interestingly enough my uncle from Toronto who's lived in Sydney for the past 35 years noted that the traffic there is particularly awful, but that Toronto has recently "caught up" in this respect.
__________________
Check out my pics of Johannesburg
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 5:55 PM
MonkeyRonin's Avatar
MonkeyRonin MonkeyRonin is offline
¥ ¥ ¥
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 10,159
Crazy population growth without the infrastructure growth to match will do that. Road & highway capacity hasn't really grown much in the past 50 years while the population has more than doubled in the same time. Transit expansion hasn't been enough to pick up the slack as it's always been a few steps behind what's currently needed.


Personally, I've never found Toronto's traffic that intolerable, but my frame of reference is probably a few years out of date, and/or I mostly drove off-peak and not in the core or on the highways. Still, bikes & subways are really the only reliable way to get around there.

Vancouver is similar, the average city streets mostly aren't too bad most of the time, but any of the choke points - bridges, tunnels, the one freeway - can be impassable at times. The worst thing though is just trying to find parking at any nice beach, river, trail, or other natural feature within an hour of the city on a weekend. The population keeps growing, but Vancouver's prized natural amenities stay the same.
__________________
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 6:03 PM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 11,917
Toronto traffic has gotten immensely worse in the last 5 years. Even 5 years ago it was a lot more manageable - the really miserable parts were mostly limited around Gardiner on and off ramps and richmond / adelaide through the downtown during peak rush hour.

The miserable traffic now stretches across most of the downtown for most of the day, and freeway congestion has gotten unbelievably terrible. Even in the 2014-2016ish era traffic on the freeway system pretty much disappeared midday and in the evenings - today it's all day long for a good chunk of the network and extends deep into the evening hours. It also extends much further outside of the city. It's not uncommon for the QEW to be congested from the 427 to St. Catharines 90 kilometres away in rush hour now. It's unbelievable, and a big reason I think Ford remains so popular on the provincial level. He talks the talk on highways which the other parties are completely ignorant to, even if his actual spending on the matter is actually pretty small.

The freeway congestion is mostly volume related to growth - but the downtown traffic has gotten insane mostly because of construction. The Gardiner construction and construction on the streets in the city for things like the Ontario Line and other works have made it unbelievably bad. The good news is that it will eventually end.. but it's going to be years before it's done.

The regional congestion on the freeway network has no real end in sight. MTO has plans for widening a lot of highways, but isn't getting funding for much of any of them and most of the big projects seem years and years off, even optimistically.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 6:17 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 70,081
My last time in Toronto when I was auto-dependent (had no choice due to family) was an almost identical experience to Crawford's, involving driving between the inner west end (Liberty Village - Exhibition Place area) and downtown.

Even at 11 pm on a random weeknight with nothing going on the roads were just packed and it would take us almost an hour to drive 5 km.
__________________
No, you're not on my ignore list. Because I don't have one.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 7:58 PM
hipster duck's Avatar
hipster duck hipster duck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
Toronto traffic has gotten immensely worse in the last 5 years. Even 5 years ago it was a lot more manageable - the really miserable parts were mostly limited around Gardiner on and off ramps and richmond / adelaide through the downtown during peak rush hour.

The miserable traffic now stretches across most of the downtown for most of the day, and freeway congestion has gotten unbelievably terrible. Even in the 2014-2016ish era traffic on the freeway system pretty much disappeared midday and in the evenings - today it's all day long for a good chunk of the network and extends deep into the evening hours. It also extends much further outside of the city. It's not uncommon for the QEW to be congested from the 427 to St. Catharines 90 kilometres away in rush hour now. It's unbelievable, and a big reason I think Ford remains so popular on the provincial level. He talks the talk on highways which the other parties are completely ignorant to, even if his actual spending on the matter is actually pretty small.

The freeway congestion is mostly volume related to growth - but the downtown traffic has gotten insane mostly because of construction. The Gardiner construction and construction on the streets in the city for things like the Ontario Line and other works have made it unbelievably bad. The good news is that it will eventually end.. but it's going to be years before it's done.

The regional congestion on the freeway network has no real end in sight. MTO has plans for widening a lot of highways, but isn't getting funding for much of any of them and most of the big projects seem years and years off, even optimistically.
I'm cautiously optimistic that congestion will improve, maybe even dramatically, over the next 10 years - especially in the dreaded east-west direction.

The problem right now is that the GTA is still car-oriented, where you'd want a car for anything except to-downtown and within-downtown trips, but there's been no investment in highway capacity for over 30 years, notwithstanding the tolled 407. Between the early 1990s and, say, 2009 it was mostly because of austerity, and since 2009 it has been mostly ideological. Ford will probably break this logjam by building both highways and transit in equal measure*.

But, more crucially, almost all of the major projects are attempting to resolve the problem of east-west travel:

For new transit:
- Ontario Line
- GO RER + new inner city stations
- Eglinton Crosstown

And on the highway side of things:
- Highway 413
- Bradford Bypass
- MTO uploading the Gardiner-DVP. Things probably won't change a lot in the first few decades, but it's good that a regionally-significant highway is in provincial hands. The City of Toronto really can't see beyond its own borders.

The rate of growth is a big variable, but once these projects are in place we could support a lot more east-west travel than what exists now.

*Cities that pay lip service to both public transit and private cars don't usually have massive periods of investment catering to one mode or the other. So, if you look at places like Madrid or Chinese cities in the early-2000s, or Canadian cities in the 1960s, there was a lot of highway and subway construction going on at the same time.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 8:28 PM
Nouvellecosse's Avatar
Nouvellecosse Nouvellecosse is offline
Volatile Pacivist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 9,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Canadian cities on average have way worse traffic than one would expect. This ranges from the obvious biggest ones but it's also pretty bad in mid-sized cities like Ottawa and even those one rung lower like Halifax.

When I'm abroad in megacities I am often bracing myself for horrendous traffic delays and I almost always find myself saying "well, it's no so bad compared to home".
One good thing I can say about dealing withToronto is that it takes about 6 months of being back home before I start complaining about our traffic again.
__________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw
Don't ask people not to debate a topic. Just stop making debatable assertions. Problem solved.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 8:46 PM
isaidso isaidso is online now
The New Republic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Provinces of America
Posts: 10,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
From the Canada Forum:
That graph should be properly headed (SELECTED METROS) as it omits loads of Canadian metros. These 14 CMAs below were omitted and all grew faster than Toronto; (listed as 6th fastest growing. All 40 Canadian CMAs posted a faster population growth rate than Atlanta. Only 4 grew slower than 2%: Victoria (1.89%), Saguenay (1.88%), Hamilton (1.63%), and Thunder Bay (1.40%).


Moncton: 6.14%
Saskatoon: 4.81%
Peterborough: 4.16%
Regina: 4.06%
Fredericton: 3.97%
Halifax: 3.96%
Brantford: 3.90%
London: 3.80%
Oshawa: 3.71%
Barrie: 3.64%
St.Catharines-Niagara: 3.52%
Windsor: 3.49%
Lethbridge: 3.43%
Red Deer: 3.41%
TORONTO: 3.37%
__________________
World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams

Last edited by isaidso; May 23, 2024 at 9:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted May 23, 2024, 11:33 PM
Antares41's Avatar
Antares41 Antares41 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Bflo/Pgh/Msn/NYC
Posts: 2,160
All the cities around Hamilton, Ont. are showing decent growth. I think it only a matter of time before it's growth rate begins to rise, especially with the uptick in residential construction in and around the city for the past 2-3 years.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted May 24, 2024, 12:35 AM
Dariusb Dariusb is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Belton, TX
Posts: 1,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Canadian cities on average have way worse traffic than one would expect. This ranges from the obvious biggest ones but it's also pretty bad in mid-sized cities like Ottawa and even those one rung lower like Halifax.

When I'm abroad in megacities I am often bracing myself for horrendous traffic delays and I almost always find myself saying "well, it's no so bad compared to home".
Is traffic bad in Winnipeg also?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted May 24, 2024, 4:03 AM
Metro-One's Avatar
Metro-One Metro-One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Japan
Posts: 17,058
Also, these are Canadian CMA boundaries, which are more conservative than the American equivalent.

Metro-Vancouver is now officially over 2.9 million, but using US style boundaries it would definitely include Abbotsford CMA and Chilliwack CMA and a few other smaller surrounding communities, giving it around 3.4 million (if you want to do an apples to apples comparison with American metro area populations)
__________________
Bridging the Gap
Check out my Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/306346...h/29495547810/ and Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV0...lhxXFxuAey_q6Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted May 24, 2024, 11:37 AM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 70,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dariusb View Post
Is traffic bad in Winnipeg also?
The Prairie cities tend to be the notable exceptions. Traffic is generally a bit better there. They have more road capacity relative to population and there are fewer geographic barriers like big and small waterways, hills, etc.
__________________
No, you're not on my ignore list. Because I don't have one.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:55 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.