"in/going to/from California" vs. "on/over by/near California"

[iheartthed]

For NYC it's Jamaica, Queens, but the prepositions used to refer to both places will overlap A LOT so it can be very confusing. New Yorkers will often say "I went to Jamaica", "I was in Jamaica", "I just came from Jamaica", and it could either means Queens or the country. Using a reference to the amount of time spent in the place, or a reference to the mode of travel to get there (drove, train, flew) will make it clear which one you're talking about.

[pj3000]

Washington DC: it seems to me that people generally just say Connecticut, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, or Georgia, for example, rather than appending the "Ave" or "Avenue".

"Go down Connecticut until you get to Dupont Circle, go around and make a right onto Massachusetts."

"It's in Georgetown on Wisconsin."

"Stay on Rhode Island all the way until it turns into Baltimore."

[3rd&Brown]

In Philadelphia, I can't think of a single street named after a place, other than Delaware Avenue, which is named after the River, not the state.

Our north south streets are numbers (there are exceptions once you get off the grid) and our east west streets are generally named after trees, flowers, or people.

[edale]

Pretty sure the context of what's being discussed does the heavy lifting for differentiating between the street/neighborhood and the other state/city, not the prepositions.

If you're living in Chicago and hear someone say "I need to head over to California to pick up my dry cleaning", I'm pretty sure no one would think that person was getting on a 4 hour flight to grab their dry cleaning. The context makes it clear. Seems pretty obvious.

The Cincinnati neighborhood of California is very small and I would wager a majority of people in the region have barely heard of it. But there is a pretty noteworthy suburb called Wyoming. I attended a summer camp at Ohio State as a kid, and someone introduced themselves as being from Wyoming. Even though I was from Cincinnati, I thought he was referring to the state, and was surprised he came all that way for this weeklong camp. In that situation, when most people aren't from the Cincy region, why would he say the name of the small suburb he was from rather than say Cincinnati, Cincinnati area, suburbs of Cincy, etc? If he really needed to get it out there that he was from Wyoming, he could have said "I'm from a suburb of Cincinnati called Wyoming." That kid was either super provincial or was just trying to be confusing.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by edale

If you're living in Chicago and hear someone say "I need to head over to California to pick up my dry cleaning"

You just kinda inadvertantly pointed out how important the prepositions can be to understanding.

Because of their extremely long and linear nature, the preposition "to" just sounds really odd to my ear in reference to a Chicago street. A Chicagoan would be much more likely to say "I need to head over by California to pick up my dry cleaning".

You might use "to" in reference to an individual street intersection, such as "I gotta head down to 26th and California" (an infamous intersection that every Chicagoan knows), but at that point, every Chicagoan would know that you're not talking about anything that has anything to do with the golden state.

Now, of course context can help a lot too, but my initial point was about how the prepositions, all by themselves, can often let you instantly know what a person is talking about without any context at all.

"in California" automatically means the West Coast state every time.

"on California" automatically means the city street every time.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Washington DC: it seems to me that people generally just say Connecticut, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, or Georgia, for example, rather than appending the "Ave" or "Avenue".

I assumed that dropping the "street", "avenue", "boulevard" suffix was commonplace in all cities when speaking casually.

That's certainly how most people talk in Chicago, with a few notable exceptions, of course, like "Michigan Avenue" (as noted earlier in the thread) or "Lake Shore Drive".

[sopas ej]

It's a combination of context and prepositions.

In Los Angeles, when someone says they're "going to Venice," most likely it's the Venice neighborhood and not the touristy city of canals in Italy.

I work in the city of Rosemead, but there's also a major arterial (highway, really) called Rosemead Boulevard. If you say "I'm in Rosemead," that means you're in the city, but if you say "I'm on Rosemead," that means you're on the street called Rosemead Blvd. And Rosemead Blvd. is a very long street that goes through several cities, so if you were to say "I'm on Rosemead," that doesn't necessarily mean you're also in the city of Rosemead.

English prepositions seem to give some trouble to people who don't speak English as their native tongue; I notice that on some posts here (but it doesn't bother me, sometimes I think it's cute). Anecdotally, my relatives from the Philippines still don't have the English prepositions quite down. "I'm in the airport" vs. "I'm at the airport." Both are understood, but the first phrase would imply that you're somewhere inside the airport, like inside a terminal or someting. "I'm on my way in Pasadena" vs. "I'm on my way to Pasadena." You're not there yet, so you use "to." Romance language speakers also seem to flub English prepositions a lot.

Back to southern Californians, we treat streets exactly like streets, and freeways like highways. Pacific Coast Highway we refer to like it's a street (because it basically is), we don't say "make a right on the Pacific Coast Highway), we say "make a right on Pacific Coast Highway/PCH". We say "I love driving up PCH" we don't say "I love driving up the PCH." When someone says "the" Pacific Coast Highway, that's often a giveaway that they're not a local. In Pasadena there's a street called Arroyo Parkway, but people just call it "Arroyo." "There's a great sushi place on Arroyo" or "There's a great sushi place on Arroyo Parkway." We don't say that it's on the Arroyo Parkway.

[Cress3803]

Doesn't help when people call the jail "the Hotel California"

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

"in California" automatically means the West Coast state every time.

"on California" automatically means the city street every time.

"By California" automatically means Nevada. (J/K)

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

"I'm on my way in Pasadena" vs. "I'm on my way to Pasadena." You're not there yet, so you use "to."

There's an industrial city (think chemical plants, refineries and paper mills) called Pasadena just east of Houston. When someone says "I'm on my way to Pasadena" the response is usually "OMG! WHY???"

[ColDayMan]

Like most Ohio cities, Columbus has directional roads named after their end point i.e. Cleveland Avenue literally goes to Cleveland, Westerville Rd literally goes to Westerville, etc. And in that case, like the Chicago example, you'd say "I live off Cleveland" or "It's on Cleveland" without saying "Avenue." A lot of Clevelanders live in Columbus and they'd basically say, from downtown..."I'm going to Cleveland by taking Cleveland to I-71."

And then there's the billion towns in the state that all move to Columbus for whatever reason (edale mentioned Ohio State/Wyoming as an example) that would confuse any non-Ohioan. You can be from Oregon, London, Russia, Lebanon, Toronto, Athens, Milan, Versailles, Manchester, Rome, Moscow, Delaware, Toledo, Lima, or Lisbon and a fellow Ohio transplant wouldn't even think about them being from out-of-state. But then again, half those names have their pronunciations bastardized...not Des Plaines bad, but still.

The pronunciation of Russia (OH) is particularly strange.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by ColDayMan

And then there's the billion towns in the state that all move to Columbus for whatever reason (edale mentioned Ohio State/Wyoming as an example) that would confuse any non-Ohioan. You can be from Oregon, London, Russia, Lebanon, Toronto, Athens, Milan, Versailles, Manchester, Rome, Moscow, Delaware, Toledo, Lima, or Lisbon and a fellow Ohio transplant wouldn't even think about them being from out-of-state. But then again, half those names have their pronunciations bastardized...not Des Plaines bad, but still.

The pronunciation of Russia (OH) is particularly strange.

As bad as the bastardization of the Pittsburgh suburb, North Versailles... pronounced North Ver-sales?

[ColDayMan]

Yes, worse than that (Ohio's is also pronounced "Ver-sales").

Roo-she.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by ColDayMan

Yes, worse than that (Ohio's is also pronounced "Ver-sales").

Roo-she.

Roo-she makes somewhat sense. The town was apparently founded by Swiss who fought in Russia for Napoleon.

In French, the pronunciation is Roo-sie with a weird twist on the s. In American orthography, with accent drift, that could easily end up at Roo-she.

[hauntedheadnc]

Woodruff.

If anyone is going "to" Woodruff, they're going to the small town in Spartanburg County -- possibly to Claudio's Bistro right there on Main Street, which serves a mean ahi tuna.

If anyone is "on" Woodruff, or talking about the "Woodruff shitshow," or advising others to "stay the fuck off Woodruff," they're talking about the major road that runs east and southeast from its terminus at Laurens Road through the most suburban parts of Greenville. Woodruff Road is a horror where nearly every major commercial enterprise in Greenville is either located on Woodruff or has a branch there. Traffic clots solid starting at rush hour in the morning and doesn't let up until rush hour in the evening is over. People will plan their entire days, errands, and shopping around avoiding Woodruff Road or at least figuring out an alternate route home from Woodruff that spends as little time on Woodruff itself as humanly possible. It's so bad that the city, county, and state are collaborating on building a parallel parkway, cunningly named Parallel Parkway, that will run alongside Woodruff and take some of the through traffic off of it.

Laurens Road is another road in the same vein as Woodruff, although Laurens had its suburban sprawl heyday back in the 80s and isn't anywhere near as bad as Woodruff. Regardless, if someone is going "to" Laurens they're going to the town in Laurens County. If they are "on" Laurens, they're on the road in Greenville.

Up in Asheville, if you are going "to" Hendersonville, you're traveling down Hendersonville to get there, at least to the point in Henderson County where Hendersonville Road becomes Asheville Highway. If you are "on" Hendersonville, you're sitting in traffic and it will take you twenty minutes at minimum to travel a quarter of a mile at peak rush hour.

[MolsonExport]

I'm going to California!!!

[ColDayMan]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Roo-she makes somewhat sense. The town was apparently founded by Swiss who fought in Russia for Napoleon.

In French, the pronunciation is Roo-sie with a weird twist on the s. In American orthography, with accent drift, that could easily end up at Roo-she.

Glad you pointed out something as well...there is also a Napoleon (OH) near Toledo. We have it all! LOL!

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by edale

he could have said "I'm from a suburb of Cincinnati called Wyoming." That kid was either super provincial or was just trying to be confusing.

Wyoming would be the best historic neighborhood anywhere in the Southern United States outside of New Orleans, Savannah, and Charleston. It blows away anything in Atlanta, Charlotte, or Nashville. But because it's Cincinnati it might not even crack the Top 10 neighborhoods.

The most famous person from Wyoming, OH was Otto Warmbier, the guy who was arrested in North Korea:


His family appears to still live in the same historic house:
https://wedge.hcauditor.org/view/re/...0/2023/summary

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by ColDayMan

Like most Ohio cities, Columbus has directional roads named after their end point i.e. Cleveland Avenue literally goes to Cleveland, Westerville Rd literally goes to Westerville, etc. And in that case, like the Chicago example, you'd say "I live off Cleveland" or "It's on Cleveland" without saying "Avenue." A lot of Clevelanders live in Columbus and they'd basically say, from downtown..."I'm going to Cleveland by taking Cleveland to I-71."

exactly. the big cleveland chicago example of california of course has a little chicago cleveland example with detroit. when people in cle say detroit they mean detroit road. like, i was on detroit, etc.. it goes west to the real detroit eventually. back in the days chryssie hynde made this locally famous in her brass in pocket hit song with her “detroit leanin” lyric, which to clevelanders doesn’t just mean the famous detroit lean in your car, but also going to drive on detroit road “no reason, just seemed so pleasin.” ha.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Wyoming would be the best historic neighborhood anywhere in the Southern United States outside of New Orleans, Savannah, and Charleston. It blows away anything in Atlanta, Charlotte, or Nashville.

I was googling around Wyoming, OH. It didn't seem all that historic to me. No interesting commercial areas/corridors that I could find.