WSIB Head Office Moving to London

[jammer139]

NDP and Libs call it an election stunt.


https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...0-jobs-with-it

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I know the Bell building downtown, when originally built, was designed so that it could be heightened to accommodate any further office needs. As I understand it, some of Bell is moving so perhaps this would be an option.

This would allow for faster and cheaper construction as well as take empty office space off the market. It's downtown location right along Dundas and the BRT is also ideal. I don't also think parking should be an issue as I have always thought that the best place for a new downtown city-owned parking garage would be the space behind the Bell building which borders Queen. It's dead space and is not suitable for residential.

So Bell is actually fully moving out of the Bell building. They occupy 2 floors currently.

Also my company had a floor and a half there before the pandemic and we've reduced to just 1 now.

I'd expect the office space needs to be roughly one third to half of what they have now at the very most. So space for 1-1.5k office workers. Bell building could possibly house them as there's at least 3 full acre-sized floors available, plus partial floors or even a 4th full floor (I've only been there a couple times in the past 2+ years just to grab stuff from my desk and whatnot so not fully knowledgeable).

So yes they could possibly find an existing office building to locate to. If they can't all fit in Bell, maybe Farhi will throw in Market Tower or another one his of vacant properties - or they will build something new who knows.

[inimrepus]

Originally Posted by haljackey

I'd expect the office space needs to be roughly one third to half of what they have now at the very most. So space for 1-1.5k office workers. Bell building could possibly house them as there's at least 3 full acre-sized floors available, plus partial floors or even a 4th full floor (I've only been there a couple times in the past 2+ years just to grab stuff from my desk and whatnot so not fully knowledgeable).

According to the listing for 100 Dundas St. they have 39,9042 sq/ft available. That is significantly less than what they would need.

[jammer139]

More details in Thursday's budget apparently.


https://globalnews.ca/news/8787559/w...ve-london-ont/

[johnnyhamont]

If I'm London City council, I'm coming at the Province far more concerned that they build new housing to accommodate 3,000 employees than that they build new office space for them. London house prices have already doubled in two years without WSIB's presence. Laurier University arrived in Brantford with much fanfare for bringing new jobs and students to the city, but when they neglected to build any housing at all, they caused big problems and have been openly criticized for their negative impact on the community by exacerbating affordability issues.

The Province is pitching this plan as a way to save $30M/yr on 200 Front St, but they better be prepared to invest far more up-front in the cost of a new office building plus a few downtown condos in London if they want to actually sell themselves as a beneficial addition to the community.

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by johnnyhamont

If I'm London City council, I'm coming at the Province far more concerned that they build new housing to accommodate 3,000 employees than that they build new office space for them. London house prices have already doubled in two years without WSIB's presence. Laurier University arrived in Brantford with much fanfare for bringing new jobs and students to the city, but when they neglected to build any housing at all, they caused big problems and have been openly criticized for their negative impact on the community by exacerbating affordability issues.

The Province is pitching this plan as a way to save $30M/yr on 200 Front St, but they better be prepared to invest far more up-front in the cost of a new office building plus a few downtown condos in London if they want to actually sell themselves as a beneficial addition to the community.

All the province can really do is use MZOs to speed up or increase the height of certain developments in downtown London (as well as outside of downtown) so more housing is available and under construction when the office moves. I'm sure the City won't be very happy about seeing the province override all their restrictive zoning, but they will have done it to themselves.

The MZO tool wasn't widely used until very recently, and probably could have helped quite a bit in Brantford.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by inimrepus

According to the listing for 100 Dundas St. they have 39,9042 sq/ft available. That is significantly less than what they would need.

That website seems very out of date. There are at minimum 3.5 floors available in the Bell Building once Bell Canada leaves. There are 8 office floors so that's nearly 50% vacancy. I'm not sure about some of the others downsizing their floor space either- so it could be above 50% lease-able soon.

Originally Posted by johnnyhamont

If I'm London City council, I'm coming at the Province far more concerned that they build new housing to accommodate 3,000 employees than that they build new office space for them. London house prices have already doubled in two years without WSIB's presence. Laurier University arrived in Brantford with much fanfare for bringing new jobs and students to the city, but when they neglected to build any housing at all, they caused big problems and have been openly criticized for their negative impact on the community by exacerbating affordability issues.

The Province is pitching this plan as a way to save $30M/yr on 200 Front St, but they better be prepared to invest far more up-front in the cost of a new office building plus a few downtown condos in London if they want to actually sell themselves as a beneficial addition to the community.

Staff was told they can continue to live where they are and WFH. They'd only need to come to London for big meetings or whatever... maybe the government will make them take the underused GO train. Some may want to relocate here but I can't see more than 1K coming.

[MolsonExport]

Doesn't London have insanely high office vacancy rates?

Farhi will be pleased as punch.

[ssiguy]

The Mayor has said it will be a boom for the DOWNTOWN. I don't think there is chance in hell that it will go anywhere except the Core.

Not only does this result in better office space with a lot of construction jobs but also permanent WELL paying civil service who will be shopping and dining in the Core as well as many of the younger workers wanting to live near where they work.

This is nothing but fantastic news for the city and the Core especially. With all the new residential towers going up and proposed as well as this new office and the BRT, downtown London will be unrecognizable in even 5 years. The Core has suffered a lot in the last 4 years with the construction of Dundas Place, the BRT, and of course, COVID but the future looks very bright.

[K85]

this scum won't get a LICK of rent from this.

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Farhi will be pleased as punch.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by K85

this scum won't get a LICK of rent from this.

I wouldn't be so confident. Farhi does lease to the Government of Ontario already. A Service Ontario location is in the Bell Building for example.

If they want a new build - perhaps Farhi can propose the old Central Library tower development on Queens he once planned. The RBC tower that he owns on Richmond near Dundas is also almost empty I think... but the 'quality' of the office space may not meet WSIB's requirement (at least not without extensive renovation work).

[jammer139]

I would agree that its extremely unlikely that this move would trigger the construction of a new office building. If it happens it may only be the renovation of an existing building and that might be the purchase or lease of one of the Landlords vacant buildings like the Market Tower and/or Royal Bank tower. Big IF on that. Budget today is supposed to have further details.


Latest LFP article on proposed move - https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...cites-realtors

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by jammer139

I would agree that its extremely unlikely that this move would trigger the construction of a new office building. If it happens it may only be the renovation of an existing building and that might be the purchase or lease of one of the Landlords vacant buildings like the Market Tower and/or Royal Bank tower. Big IF on that. Budget today is supposed to have further details.


Latest LFP article on proposed move - https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...cites-realtors

News of the possible move has caused a stir in London’s commercial real estate sector, as the downtown has a vacancy rate of 28 per cent. With nearly one in three properties vacant, the core can provide all 650,000 square feet of WSIB office space, if it arrives, said Brent Rudell, broker and vice-president at Cushman Wakefield, a commercial realty firm.

I don't think we will see a major new office tower for years, or maybe decades.

[ssiguy]

It's all going to come down to how much space they will need and how many workers will it hold as to whether the province simply leases space or builds a new tower.

If they need a lot of space, there is no where downtown that could absorb even close to what is needed without having 5 downtown locations which they most certainly not want. if there is a new tower, I don't think another One London Place is in the cards and that even assumes OLP would sell the parking area in the first place.

I think the more ideal location is the monstrous parking lot at Wellington & York which is currently for sale. It's an ideal location and big enough that it could have one tower built and have room for a second if needed. It also has the advantage of being right near CC if more space is needed. It is also big enough that it could offer some parking for employees {a la OLP} at grade saving it money from having to build a massive underground section.

[ericmacm]

From the 2022 budget:

Through the Community Jobs Initiative, the government is working to bring jobs at provincial agencies to communities across Ontario to help spur economic growth. This begins with exploring the relocation of the headquarters of the Workplace Safety and Insurance Board (WSIB) to London, working in close partnership with the agency and other partners, and identifying main street communities to headquarter new government agencies. The government will explore the location for new agencies, including Supply Ontario, Invest Ontario and Intellectual Property Ontario to help ensure opportunities for all the people of Ontario.

No real new info except for new potential agencies being located in other cities, but it is interesting to note that they say "main street communities" as a location for headquartering government agencies.

[jammer139]

Yeah budget yesterday really didn't provide any new details.

[ssiguy]

If they don't need too much space and the are committed to "main street communities" then maybe they will buy the Royal Bank tower from Farhi and upgrade it to AA. That would be a real win because it would take a lot of empty space off the market and get rid of all that empty street frontage at Dundas & Richmond which Farhi seems perversely proud of.

[jammer139]

TVO article on the history of office moves.


https://www.tvo.org/article/would-do...out-of-toronto

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by jammer139

TVO article on the history of office moves.


https://www.tvo.org/article/would-do...out-of-toronto

I agree that these moves are always politically motivated but this reporter makes a false analogy between Peterson's 1990s and Ford's 2020s reality. Unlike back then, remote work is now a viable option and due to huge increases in technology, head offices no longer require being within earshot of QP.

Also, in the 90s, Toronto's housing market had tanked so there was not nearly as much advantage for workers to leave Toronto. The commercial real estate market was also very poor with a much higher vacancy rate and drastically lower prices.............anyone remember the Richmond office tower elevator? Also SSM is an isolated smaller city while London is within easy access to Toronto by 2 freeways, commuter rail, VIA, and intercity buses. It is also a much larger and more important city being the 3rd or 4th {depending on who you ask} most important in the province.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

if there is a new tower, I don't think another One London Place is in the cards and that even assumes OLP would sell the parking area in the first place.

I heard that there is already a foundation for another large tower already there. They just never built it, as London didn't require it at the time.