Canada's 4th city

[VANRIDERFAN]

I'm old enough to remember when Winnipeg was Number 3.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Internally, it’s Calgary, but internationally, it’s Ottawa, if that makes any sense.

This.

Calgary pulls way above its weight for business, investment and tourism (due to Banff.

Ottawa - national capital - nuff said.

Edmonton continues along and has bright spots with the UofA, medical and some tech, but has lost a ton of ground in terms of it being a centre for business and the current government has shifted a lot to its 'sister city' to the south.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by biguc

Calgary, on the other hand, is kind of fun. Trashy and embarrassing, but kind fun. Calgary is basically a creature of the oil industry (bad guys have historically been fun) and its airport, which is a creature of Banff, which is fun. Point is, it makes a good impression in ways we'd probably underrate.

We'll see what happens though. People might like dating Calgary, but once the pipeline work dries up you're left with a VLT-addicted cokehead and that charming tips-the-cowboy-hat thing isn't far removed from tipping a fedora anyway, milady.

As someone from Ottawa, but self-identify as an Edmontonian, you Cleary know very little about Calgary and it feels like you've never been there.

As much as it hurts me to say this, Calgary has matured nicely, is an incredibly wealthy city, modern, exciting and far more sophisticated than you lead to believe.

It's airport certainly benefits from Banff and the mountains as a whole, but its business community and overall high disposable incomes drive the majority of YYC.

It's also far more diversified than you seem to acknowledge and has a tech industry that is really leading the way now in partnership with 'energy' companies.

In this case, Biguc is more like a bigyoudontsee

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

As someone from Ottawa, but self-identify as an Edmontonian, you Cleary know very little about Calgary and it feels like you've never been there.

As much as it hurts me to say this, Calgary has matured nicely, is an incredibly wealthy city, modern, exciting and far more sophisticated than you lead to believe.

It's airport certainly benefits from Banff and the mountains as a whole, but its business community and overall high disposable incomes drive the majority of YYC.

It's also far more diversified than you seem to acknowledge and has a tech industry that is really leading the way now in partnership with 'energy' companies.

In this case, Biguc is more like a bigyoudontsee

Reading through all these replies, I feel many are just going with the stereotypes for Calgary. From my standpoint, the economy is far more diversified than people think. The amount of business the company I work for has changed significantly in the last 10 years. It used to be 90% O&G but now we do more work with Telecom, tech, healthcare and education.

[Innsertnamehere]

Economically, Calgary 100%. It's the economic driver of Canada's wealthiest province, has some of the highest median incomes in the country, and is also basically the fastest growing major city in the country as we saw with the census estimates today (6% growth in 1 year!). Ottawa as others have mentioned is also almost overshadowed by Montreal just down the 417 and within Ontario by Toronto. Calgary dominates Alberta Politics - Ottawa remains an afterthought in provincial politics as so much is driven by the GTA.

Ottawa looms larger internationally because of politics though.

Over time I think Calgary will continue to pull ahead though, in terms of prominence, economy, population, etc., and the gap will widen with it becoming the more clear "#4".

Ultimately, Canada really has 6 "big cities", with the last 3 all sitting relatively close to each other though. Pulling teeth about which beats which is kind of redundant. The bigger focus should be on building more "big cities" in this country to draw additional attention. In that way, we should be focusing on the next tier down - the Hamiltons, Winnipegs, Quebec Cities.

[Acajack]

Quite a few people have mentioned Calgary's edge in tourism and culture. Is this really the case? Sure it's a gateway to the Canadian Rockies so that drives some numbers, but do more people actually visit Calgary "for the city" than visit Ottawa?

[lio45]

No need to even read the thread (I haven't read it yet on purpose, so I'm not influenced by what others have said) to tell you that it's a ridiculous question, #4 is unquestionably Calgary by pretty much any reasonable metric you can think of.

(Well, to be more precise, by any metric that has Toronto as #1, Montreal as #2, and Vancouver as #3. Because yeah, if you consider "political power", then Ottawa > Calgary, but then in that case Ottawa is #1, not merely #4.)

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Fourth city of Canada.

Kind of like the fourth most important woman you dated in your life.

Oh Ottawa. Nice, yet kind of bland. Could have married her, had some kids, settled in Nepean or Kanata or Orleans or something. Spoke French with an English accent, she worked for…CRA? Maybe PSPC? CIHR? Something fussy and bureaucratic with acronyms. It seemed vaguely important, but distant all the same. As for her, well, the Costco membership, Honda CR-V in the driveway, the faux-brick facade grey stucco suburban paradise was going to be it. Do not question it. The tick boxes must be ticked, life was going to be by the book: married by mid-20s, home in the ‘burbs with kids by her late-20s, retirement with a pension at 60. This was the order of things.

Ah, Calgary. She was aspirational and sporty, with a bit of country girl swagger. Maybe a little too vain about the money, given the ups and downs of her finances. Mania when the money was good, ornery when things got leaner. The ‘Silly boys, trucks are for girls’ sticker on the Ram parked in snout-nose home Northwest Calgary was perhaps a bit over the top. Traded a little hard on the outdoorsy thing, as her teammate Banff was the real star of that show. But Olympics ‘88 was her moment, and she shone quite well there.

Edmonton. So much potential, yet so unwilling to shine at times. Her brief fling of sporty in the ‘80s gave way to…resignation, maybe? Her Canadian modesty dulling her potential, if that spirit could get into the bones somehow. You had hoped for more and saw more within, but there was less. Sort of bittersweet in a way.

TL;DR for fourth city of Canada:

Ottawa: If dealing with the federal government, yes. Otherwise, no. It’s about Canberra’s heft in the Aussie realm. Does not seem important once one wanders away from Wellington and Sussex Drive. Most of the city reflects this ethos.

Calgary: Economically and in a cultural/tourist sense, yes. Is the heart of Alberta and ‘The West’ in the Canadian mosaic and national conversation.

Edmonton: No.

Good post. But comparing Ottwa to Canberra? I won't stand for it.

Originally Posted by DesignerGuy

The only reason Ottawa is not an airport hub is because of geography. It is placed between Toronto and Montreal, the two largest cities in Canada with Pearson being the premier airport in the country only a 45 minute flight away, it just didn't make sense for Ottawa to become a hub.

Calgary is an hub because it is quite isolated and is the largest city in the Prairie Provinces plus the oil lol

I feel Ottawa is always wrongfully stereotyped as a boring provincial city but it has changed dramatically in the last 5 years. Population is growing fast, we are a tech hub within Canada (along with Vancouver, Toronto, Waterloo etc...). Geographically we are positioned in a stunning landscape of forest, rivers, fertile farmland to the south and east and are close to major US markets.

Downtown to downtown from MTL to Ottawa is less than 2 hours (traffic permitting) and the two regions together are home to 6 million + people

Ottawa is a city of festivals - Tulip, Winterlude, Jazz Fest, Bluesfest being the more prominent that attract visitors from around the world.

Downtown and around the core are densifying rapidly and you can feel the energy when you walk around. LRT is extending to airport and the east and west suburbs. New library on a prime location is under construction, cranes dot the skyline, big city proposals abound.

My take is Ottawa and Calgary can tie for 4th but Ottawa being the National Capital might give it the edge over Calgary.

You bring some good points. I think a lot of people assume that Ottawa is nothing but Government, but we have a significant tech industry. Our Univsersities (as the most educated city in Canada), hospitals (Ottawa Heart Institute for example) and reasearch field are also of some importance.

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I'm old enough to remember when Winnipeg was Number 3.

Wow. When did you turn 100?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Good post. But comparing Ottwa to Canberra? I won't stand for it.



You bring some good points. I think a lot of people assume that Ottawa is nothing but Government, but we have a significant tech industry. Our Univsersities (as the most educated city in Canada), hospitals (Ottawa Heart Institute for example) and reasearch field are also of some importance.

Yes, if comparing to Australia, Ottawa would be an Adelaide-level city, or maybe even Perth on a really good day.

There is way more to Ottawa than what Canberra is as an almost strictly government-oriented city.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Internally, it’s Calgary, but internationally, it’s Ottawa, if that makes any sense.

"Internationally" makes little sense IMO. For a good chunk of the world, Montreal is Canada's #1 city; for another good chunk of the world, Vancouver is Canada's #1 city.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by lio45

"Internationally" makes little sense IMO. For a good chunk of the world, Montreal is Canada's #1 city; for another good chunk of the world, Vancouver is Canada's #1 city.

National capital, embassy density, diplomats, officials, visits etc.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

National capital, embassy density, diplomats, officials, visits etc.

Of course. My point was just that international perception is going to be warped, therefore quite useless. If the Francophone world thinks Montreal is Canada's #1 city, does that mean it actually is?

Calgary is factually a bigger city than Ottawa, regardless of some random foreigner's opinion.

[kora]

Originally Posted by 905er

I've always thought of it as clearly Calgary ...(but agree, internationally, it's probably Ottawa)

Internationally politically it's Ottawa.
Internationally economically it's Calgary.
I would argue Calgary is also better known internationally than Ottawa.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That said, I think there will continue to be a flip-flop between Calgary and Ottawa for the fourth spot for quite some time, depending relatively on the fortunes of the oil and gas industry and the role the federal government plays in Canadians' lives.

Observers are likely bearish on both, as oil is a sunset commodity and the Poilievre Reform-Tories are about to get absolute power federally for a while.

Starting to short Ottawa REIT stocks would likely be a good financial move at this point

[DesignerGuy]

Interesting to see the StatsCAN population estimates today. Ottawa-Gatineau has slightly overtaken Edmonton for 5th biggest CMA in Canada and only 70,000 or so behind Calgary.
I don't think population is an important factor in the city ranking when they are that close

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by lio45

Of course. My point was just that international perception is going to be warped, therefore quite useless. If the Francophone world thinks Montreal is Canada's #1 city, does that mean it actually is?

Calgary is factually a bigger city than Ottawa, regardless of some random foreigner's opinion.

I guess it depends on your definition of warped. Probably many in Central Canada think it's definitively Ottawa. That also doesn't make it true.

I think Calgary is the clear front runner domestically. Internationally it is closer. People know capitals and their leaders visit there more often etc. Those things matter.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

As someone from Ottawa, but self-identify as an Edmontonian, you Cleary know very little about Calgary and it feels like you've never been there.

As much as it hurts me to say this, Calgary has matured nicely, is an incredibly wealthy city, modern, exciting and far more sophisticated than you lead to believe.

It's airport certainly benefits from Banff and the mountains as a whole, but its business community and overall high disposable incomes drive the majority of YYC.

It's also far more diversified than you seem to acknowledge and has a tech industry that is really leading the way now in partnership with 'energy' companies.

In this case, Biguc is more like a bigyoudontsee

Counterpoint: Calgary police wear cowboy hats.

I promise we're looking at the same thing, just from drastically different perspectives. When Europeans go to Calgary, it's for oil or Banff. And oil and Banff are the fountains from which Calgary's fourthness, in the pantheon of Canadian cities, flows. Whatever provincial feathers (Telus and WestJet and shit) it's stuck in its cowboy hat aren't going to suddenly propel it beyond what it currently is. Neither will being affluent or modern.

Nor will being unsophisticated hold it back. Vancouver, for what it's worth, is not a terribly sophisticated city.

And that's really the point: who cares? This is a pointless dick measuring contest on a dated message board for skyscraper nerds that's been hijacked by whiny old men. But, if you'd like, we can fight about which city has the most people wearing yoga pants out in public and act like that matters.

Milady.

[Coldrsx]

How many times have you visited Calgary for any length of time? Have you done business there?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I guess it depends on your definition of warped. Probably many in Central Canada think it's definitively Ottawa. That also doesn't make it true.

I think Calgary is the clear front runner domestically. Internationally it is closer. People know capitals and their leaders visit there more often etc. Those things matter.

Though "Central Canada" is two thirds of Canada's population, and the Atlantic region probably leans towards Ottawa as well.

(Not actually disagreeing that Calgary in fact could be 4th, BTW.)

[ssiguy]

I didn't say what my answer to the question would be because I didn't want the thread to start off by saying how right or wrong I was but rather people's own opinions. Now that it has been discussed I would say it's definitely Calgary with Ottawa second and Edmonton a distant third.

Calgary is not just the financial and economic centre of Western Canada but the 3rd most important in the country. It is a huge logistical centre and has the most important airport by a long shot and no, that is not due to Banff but rather the city's economic heft.