Château Laurier expansion | Approved

[bobcage]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I find the whole "you can't mimmic the old style" thing is like the Italians saying you can't put cheese on seafood. Well some people like their Coquilles St-Jacques au gratin.

The fact is, the Chateau Laurier was added on to several times over the years and they were done by different architects and the results were harmonious and almost seamless in style. Same story of Quebec City's Chateau Frontenac whose prominent tower was a later addition.

Here's what the Chateau Laurier looked when it first opened, you can hardly say the rest of the later addition was a "mistake". I think architects these days just lack the balls and aesthetic literacy to properly continue on with the language of its style.

wow ... nice photo

[bobcage]

the Chateau Laurier should have a better more inviting entrance at the back than what they currently have at the front!

[eemy]

The problem with an expansion that juxtaposes the original building is that the rear is one of the principle angles from which to view the building. It would become one of the most prominent facades.

And with all due respect, the example you showed in Kingston strikes me as a terrible example of heritage preservation. I don't find it objectionable, but it strike me more as an International-style building with rather unusual building materials. If you hadn't stated as much, I would have never known that it was originally a heritage building.

[rocketphish]

Owners of Ottawa's iconic Château Laurier hotel propose huge expansion

Susana Mas, The Ottawa Citizen
Published on: September 14, 2016 | Last Updated: September 14, 2016 9:05 PM EDT



The owners of Ottawa’s Fairmont Château Laurier are seeking to expand the iconic hotel starting in the fall of 2017.

Expansion plans include building new long-term-stay suites, creating a new courtyard and replacing an aging five-storey parking lot with new underground parking that would provide hotel guests and the public at large with approximately 100 additional spaces.

The Capital Hotel Limited Partnership, an affiliate of Vancouver’s Larco Investments Ltd. and owner of the Fairmont Château Laurier, made the announcement in Ottawa on Wednesday.

Art Phillips, the director of development for Larco Investments, said a formal application will be made to the city of Ottawa next month.

Based on pre-consultation meetings with about 30 stakeholders and initial presentations to the National Capital Commission, Phillips said the owners “feel confident that approval will be granted.”

If all goes according to plan, shovels would be in the ground late next year as celebrations for Canada’s 150th birthday begin to wind down. The new suites would be expected to open in 2020.

“We’re trying to establish a precedent for hospitality in Ottawa,” Phillips said.

In an interview, Phillips expressed confidence in the performance of Ottawa’s hotel industry and its outlook going forward.

“One of the biggest celebrations, of course, is going to be the birthday party next year. And if I base it on the current bookings at the hotel, it’s going to be a sellout. I can’t project to 2020, obviously, but based on the process were going through right now we would not have proceeded unless we felt very confident in the hospitality industry here in Ottawa.”

Ottawa is one of the more profitable hotel markets in Canada, according to the latest hotel-performance report by the city’s department of economic development and innovation.

“Ottawa hotels make significant annual contributions to the local economy in terms of employment, tax revenues to the city, and marketing of Ottawa as a tourism destination,” the 2015 report said.

And with the 2017 celebrations around the corner, the report said, the outlook remains positive.

Rob Taylor, a spokesman with the Tourism Industry Association of Canada, said Ottawa’s hotel and tourism industries are having a very good year.

Asked about the expansion of the luxury brand hotel, Taylor told the Citizen, “I think they recognize that there’s a niche that they can fulfill there … that right now is not necessarily available in the long-term, luxury, or higher-end accommodation.”

“There are a lot of extended stays but many of them are more in the three-star space and they’re not full-service hotels. Whereas to have a marquee, full-service hotel providing that type of model, it’s a new product.”

Larco Investments Ltd. has retained Architects Alliance from Toronto, PWL Partnerships based in Vancouver and MTBA Associates in Ottawa for the preliminary designs.

Peter Clewes, the principal architect at Architects Alliance, said the renovations will provide a modern look while keeping with the hotel’s historic charm.

Phillips said the owners are open to hearing from the public as well.

“We want to give the residents of Ottawa and the business community the assurance that we’re very respectful of our neighbours and we’re here for the long term,” he told the Citizen.

Coun. Mathieu Fleury lauded the Fairmont Château Laurier team for their willingness to consult with the community at large.

“It is an exciting project that introduces captivating architectural design to this important site for our capital city while highlighting its important heritage value and location near the Parliament buildings, Major Hill’s Park, as well as the ByWard market,” Fleury said in a written statement provided to the media by the hotel owners.

“In terms of traffic mitigation efforts,” said the city’s John Smit, acting director of economic development, “the City of Ottawa always strives to reduce and minimize traffic impacts.”

He said that Ottawa is currently in the peak of LRT construction and that many construction projects have been accelerated in the downtown core so that they are complete before 2017.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...t-to-expand-it

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I like it.

It's certainly a juxtaposition and I'm sure that's fully intentional. Trying to build it like a replica of the existing building would be a mistake IMHO.

We have to remember that what's currently behind the Chateau is a parkake. The current view of this part of the Chateau from Mackenzie looks like this:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.42651...2!8i6656?hl=en
There's obviously room for improvement!

Also like that thew addition appears to have a wall of windows on the south side facing Major's Hill Park, which has the potential to help animate that park. The current interaction between the park and the Chateau is minimal: https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.42658...2!8i6656?hl=en

Arguably some tweaks, like sloping the roof, may help it integrate better with the existing building. But the parking garage shouldn't be sacrosanct, and as I said above, a Disney-style replica would be worse.

I disagree with that - it seems to me that a replica of the existing structure is the only acceptable option for that site. The proposal completely destroys the iconic view of the Chateau, looking up the canal locks. I can't understand what would motivate the proponents to suggest anything else.

[acottawa]

They were mocking this for 10 minutes on Breakfast television on City this morning.

I wonder if this is a publicity stunt.

[McC]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's not impossible, but it's very difficult, as:

2) the original materials have gained a unique appearance from weathering, which the new section will not match until decades have passed

Or won't ever match because we don't burn copious amounts of coal anymore.

I hated it at first (spit take when I saw the 2-D elevation from Major's Hill on my portable: "IS THIS SOME KIND OF A JOKE?"). But I hate it less after looking at the 3-D views from the war memorial and the locks, where the lines match up really nicely, and the toned down copper mansard roof (I may be mistaken, but I don't think it's quite square as some have described) works well with the existing roof.

The views from Mackenzie definitely need some work.

Overall I think this could be succesful with careful and concerted tweaks rather than "back to the drawing board" as the Mayor tweeted. The former Canadian Museum of Contemporary Photography proves to me that it is possible to add a contemporary addition to the Chateau that complements and enhances; not just theoretically, but even in real Ottawa.

But I also wouldn't object if they binned this and went back to the drawing board.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

Wow. Looks ridiculous, especially from the locks. That view of the Chateau Laurier from the locks is beautiful and well photographed. This expansion would destroy that. They would never do this at similar hotels like the Royal York. Only in Ottawa. The fact that the Councillor thinks this is exciting is mind boggling.

You're unfamiliar with Fleury's earlier work, then...

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by McC

Or won't ever match because we don't burn copious amounts of coal anymore.

Or until, as part of regular maintenance, you clean the stone of the existing structure, just as they have done with West Block and Centre Block right across the canal.

[daud]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Speaking of.... what's with the papers on the insides of the windows of the Lord Elgin?

Not sure if you are referring to current but this may answer....The Lord Elgin is currently undergoing a major interior renovation of the rooms. It was sorely needed. That would explain windows papered up.

As for this expansion of the Chateau Laurier, I can't really envision any acceptable expansion except a near exact replica of the current architectural style. I was flabbergasted when I first saw it; I hate it less upon second view. I'm OK with 3 of the 4 sides. its the iconic view from Major Hills Park and the Ottawa river I am most concerned about...

[McC]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Or until, as part of regular maintenance, you clean the stone of the existing structure, just as they have done with West Block and Centre Block right across the canal.

I don't think cleaned century stone looks the same as new stone; the acidity in the rain and smog over years changed the surface texture, it traps light and dirt differently, and there are little smudgy parts that never come clean. E.g., I don't believe that the new and old parts of the Lord Elgin will ever match. This is only a problem if you have lots of it side by side, without using some other architectural device to signal that these are distinct components of the building that coordinate, but do not try to match (which was the mistake they made on the LordE, IMO).

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by McC

I don't think cleaned century stone looks the same as new stone; the acidity in the rain and smog over years changed the surface texture, it traps light and dirt differently, and there are little smudgy parts that never come clean. E.g., I don't believe that the new and old parts of the Lord Elgin will ever match. This is only a problem if you have lots of it side by side, without using some other architectural device to signal that these are distinct components of the building that coordinate, but do not try to match (which was the mistake they made on the LordE, IMO).

I think the Lord Elgin mistake was not matching the windows.

In any event, an addition in a mimicking style, using stone of the same species, is vastly more desirable than whatever the hell that schematic is.

And at some point can architects get over this fad of exterior detailing and irregularly-placed vertical window that looks like an EAN bar code?

[lrt's friend]

Any 'modern' expansion that does not try to mimic the original look needs to be kept below the roof line of the original building. What we are trying to do right now is overpowering the north views of the Chateau with a boxy design that clashes with the original architecture. Maybe the design will grow on me. We will see.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's not impossible, but it's very difficult, as:
1) the original quarry the materials came from usually doesn't exist anymore
2) the original materials have gained a unique appearance from weathering, which the new section will not match until decades have passed
3) the older methods of construction were much less efficient, meaning that in today's times, building it exactly the same way is often far beyond the budget of developers

Nein. the real reason is that Modernist manifesto has purged the language of ornamentation from architecture, and vilified it as degenerate. Read about Adolf Loos' Ornament and Crime and you see that contemporary architects are still buying that shitte. It's kind of like using another Adolf's 'Mein Kampf" to guide social policies today. Loos basically reasoned that only degenerates and criminals had tattoos, therefore decoration was a crime that desecrates the purity and honesty of surfaces. Ironic that tattooing has gotten into vogue lately.

Establishment architects frown on revivalist architecture because it has been engrained in them that it is dishonest and does not reflect contemporary values and culture. I guess the soul-less boxes do?

[Richard Eade]

There is a great difference between trying to mimic and being a compatible addition. There have been some very nicely done additions to heritage/older buildings that, in my opinion, enhance the original building while providing additional space. I like the way the single homes along Somerset (263-283) were joined. The new structures look as if they belong in the picture with the original buildings. The old buildings are allowed to be the main focus, however.

I think that the Elgin Hotel’s expansion was well done, with the new additions being identifiably different, yet they look like they are still part of the same family. Also, again, they are set back and don’t overpower the original building.

If the addition is to be of a completely different character from the original building, then a good precedent to follow would be the Bank of Canada Building. The glass tower contrasts with the stone original, but it is used as a backdrop to emphasize the original. From down the street or across the road, the original stone building is what draws the eye first.

This is in contrast to what happens at the Museum of Nature, where the ghastly ‘Lantern’ steals the view. There are no elements in common with the original building to make me think that it belongs yet it is front, center, and dominant, apparently squashing what was once a stately tower. Of course, the NCC was in control of the artistic requirements of that addition.

That is not to say that the NCC’s touch will automatically give an addition a failing grade. The addition of condominiums to the Hardy Arcade along Sparks Street was, in my mind, a great success.

My biggest complaint about the proposed addition to the Chateau Laurier is that it is not really in keeping with the style of the original and its size makes it too imposing because of that lack of blending in. As has been mentioned by others, it might make a fine building on its own – some where else – but, this for me is not a suitable addition. My second fear comes from not knowing how the NCC is going to view this plan. Is it going to follow the design rules it used for the Museum of Nature?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Establishment architects frown on revivalist architecture because it has been engrained in them that it is dishonest and does not reflect contemporary values and culture. I guess the soul-less boxes do?

In that case, what contemporary values are revealed by those tacky McMansions with rooves nested within rooves, "power centre" shopping and "office park" work places?

[sestafanos]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

This is in contrast to what happens at the Museum of Nature, where the ghastly ‘Lantern’ steals the view. There are no elements in common with the original building to make me think that it belongs yet it is front, center, and dominant, apparently squashing what was once a stately tower. Of course, the NCC was in control of the artistic requirements of that addition.

You really hated the Reichstag addition didn't you?

[rocketphish]

Chateau Laurier revamp draws online rebuke. What do you think?

OTTAWA — The Canadian Press
Published Thursday, Sep. 15, 2016 7:58AM EDT | Last updated Thursday, Sep. 15, 2016 10:08AM EDT

Major changes are in the works for the iconic Fairmont Chateau Laurier hotel in the national capital.

The plan is to add as many as 200 long-term stay suites in the hotel just steps from Parliament Hill, in addition to an exterior courtyard and approximately 427 underground parking spaces.

Shovels are expected to be in the ground in the fall of 2017, with the new suites expected to be ready in 2020.

There was no immediate word on cost of the project.

Public consultations will take place at a later date, but there has already been a flurry of negative reaction to online depictions of the planned expansion.

One person on Twitter called it a “travesty” — another labelled it “hideous.”

Survey

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle31893040/

[rocketphish]

Château Laurier's proposed design shows some growing pains

Ottawa Citizen Editorial Board
Published on: September 15, 2016 | Last Updated: September 15, 2016 11:06 AM EDT



Ottawans can be forgiven for being shocked when they saw the first public images this morning of planned changes to the Fairmont Château Laurier. We were too.

A good rule of thumb when revamping an iconic building is to not stun the locals. But with its proposal to blend tradition with stark modern architecture, the château’s owners are pitching a radically different look to dominate the rear façade of the building. This is made more significant because the original architecture of the building – which opened in 1912 – had a distinct purpose, steeped in Ottawa’s geography and Canada’s history.

“Its asymmetric composition recalled Scottish baronial houses on craggy outcrops, while the steep roofs were typical of Northern France, where many early Quebecers originated,” the Citizen reported for the hotel’s 100th anniversary. As well, the design heavily influenced other buildings in Ottawa, such as the Supreme Court.

The overnight reaction on social media was overwhelmingly negative. The area councillor walked back his initial enthusiasm. Even Mayor Jim Watson suggested this one might need to go back to the drawing board, which surely suggests trouble for the design as it submits its application to develop to the city. We’ll see.

The design needs both city and National Capital Commission approval – and the NCC, at least, will be mindful of the controversy that ensued in the 1990s when it contemplated new uses for a nearby site, that of the Daly Building. It, too, generated significant public reaction.

Next step: Go beyond a few “stakeholders” and launch a concerted effort to both educate and listen to the people of Ottawa, who walk by the château everyday and consider it their own. Indeed, the original hotel was accessible, with dormitories and shared bathrooms for less well-to-do travellers. Much of this expansion, including the luxurious long-term suites, is geared at a very different demographic.

There is room for different architectural styles along our most famous streets, but Ottawans need to understand how they will all work together. The Château Laurier has changed a great deal over the years, evolving with the times. There’s a fine case to be made that, for Canada’s 150th, it’s high time to update Ottawa’s premiere hotel. The case, though, hasn’t been made for the necessity of blocking off the views of the rear of the hotel. As an iconic piece of Ottawa’s skyline, with lovely views from Major’s Hill Park, surely this needs some justification.

No doubt, meetings with the NCC and the city will flesh out some of this. But going straight to the people is a must for such a radical change to such a significant building.

Ottawa can be a world-class city with world-class architecture. Initial impressions? It’s not clear how this design helps the city in that ambition.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/edi...-growing-pains

[rocketphish]

'Back to the drawing board': Ottawa mayor on proposed Château Laurier addition
City councillor who initially approved of plan now backtracking after public outcry

By Kristy Nease, CBC News Posted: Sep 15, 2016 11:42 AM ET Last Updated: Sep 15, 2016 12:21 PM ET

Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson says it's back to the drawing board on a proposed modern addition to the historic Château Laurier hotel, and even the city councillor who favoured it at first is backtracking after a wave of angry public feedback on the designs.

The plan — proposed by Larco Investments, which two years ago bought the iconic building in downtown Ottawa just steps from Parliament Hill — would be to move its parking lot underground and add up to 200 rooms in an addition designed by Peter Clewes, one of the leading architects in Toronto's condo boom.

The City of Ottawa and the National Capital Commission would need to approve the plan before it could move ahead.

As the public outcry mounted Wednesday when pictures of the plan were released, Watson tweeted his displeasure with the proposal.

Asked Thursday to expand on his thoughts, Watson said he doesn't think the modern design of the addition blends well enough with the old hotel.

"Well I'm not all that impressed with [the design], to be perfectly honest. The Château Laurier is an iconic heritage property in the downtown core, and the images that I've seen really don't blend well, in my opinion. And I've heard an awful lot of feedback, most of it negative, from the public. My hope is that we reach some compromise, as we always try to, between the developer, the NCC, the city and the public," he said.

"We have to approve, obviously, the plans, as does the NCC, and I sit on the board of the NCC now. It's important that these kinds of developments blend in and are compatible ... and I don't believe the images that I've seen create that kind of blending between old and new."

Coun. Mathieu Fleury, who represents the Rideau-Vanier ward the hotel sits in, was quoted in the developer's promotional media release about the plan. He called it an "exciting project" and "captivating architectural design" that highlight's the hotel's important heritage and location.
Mathieu Fleury Rideau Vanier Councillor

But Fleury backtracked from that position somewhat as the negative feedback continued to pour in, saying the quote used in the developer's release didn't fully express his feelings, and that he was mainly pleased with the plan to demolish the existing five-storey parking garage.

He also apologized for allowing himself to be quoted in the promotional release in the first place, saying it was the first time he did it and that he won't do it again.

The iconic downtown building is owned by Larco Investments, but the hotel is managed and operated by Fairmont Hotels & Resorts.

The hotel said Thursday that Larco is reviewing the public feedback, and said it "appreciates the passion" people have for the Château Laurier.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...llor-1.3763200