Interesting neighbourhoods in Ottawa to pass through this weekend

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My kids and their friends are the prime age group for going to the market after dark, and they basically never go there as they say it's too sketchy after 9 or 10 pm.

At the most they'll go there for dinner but don't hang around very late.

There aren't any 20 something clubs anymore either. A few catering to specific demographics but most of the nightlife is gone though the drinking on a patio scence goes pretty late these days.

I don't know if the Market is really any more dangerous than ever but you will see a lot of open drug use and be harrassed or yelled at almost everytime to spend time there.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Elgin is also still perfectly fine.

Elgin is where it’s at now for people who might be turned off by the increased presence of the homeless in the market. I noticed a few new businesses that would typically have chosen the market for a new location decided to go there instead (artisanal shops, Uncle Tetsu, etc.). A children clothing store that was in the market just moved out of the area stating their customer base is now reluctant to go there.

Personally, I’m basically done with the market until they fix it. I used to bring family members and friends there whenever they were visiting. Not sure I’m going to do that from now on.

[Kilgore Trout]

I stayed at Le Germain last time I was in Ottawa a little under a year ago. It was actually kind of shocking how bad it had gotten even since the previous time I stayed near the market, in the summer of 2020. There were some blocks that reminded me of the Downtown Eastside in Vancouver – way worse than anything in Toronto or Montreal.

That's one problem. The other is that the market feels completely overrun with traffic even with the little pedestrianized bits, and when you go a little further afield into Lowertown or the lower part of Sandy Hill, there's a lot of through traffic that makes it very unpleasant to walk around. The combined effects of the intinerants/drug trade/traffic makes the whole part of town feel neglected even if there's always lots of people around and lots of new construction.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

I stayed at Le Germain last time I was in Ottawa a little under a year ago. It was actually kind of shocking how bad it had gotten even since the previous time I stayed near the market, in the summer of 2020. There were some blocks that reminded me of the Downtown Eastside in Vancouver – way worse than anything in Toronto or Montreal.

That's one problem. The other is that the market feels completely overrun with traffic even with the little pedestrianized bits, and when you go a little further afield into Lowertown or the lower part of Sandy Hill, there's a lot of through traffic that makes it very unpleasant to walk around. The combined effects of the intinerants/drug trade/traffic makes the whole part of town feel neglected even if there's always lots of people around and lots of new construction.

Yeah it's a unique combination of the right refusing to do anything that disrupts cars and the left considering addicts to be some sort of untouchable class. We need a radical centrist administration in this city.

[megadude]

So, that twisty, up and down alternate route was fun to drive. Wouldn't want to in the winter. There were a couple of gravel boat launch roads I went down that weren't the easiest coming back up in a Corolla. Never experienced wilderness launches like that before. Didn't have a boat, and just fished from shore for a few minutes each, but I wouldn't want to haul a 12 foot tinner with a car on those launch roads. Would want an SUV or truck. One of them was Palmerston Lake. I also stopped at a beach on some lake on the way as well to cast a few times.

I also had zero signal for about 15 minutes. Phone didn't switch from LTE to 3G. Just straight to three dots, which I had never seen before. I've seen the bars blanked out, but not dots.

I left my hotel in Nepean at 6:38. Checked a couple of properties in Kanata for 15 minutes each. Then I hit all those towns. But from Warkworth I went fastest route possible, so got on the 401 instead of country roads. It was late. I arrived in Oakville almost 16 hours later. A straight drive to Nepean with no traffic is 4:40. Even though I didn't get out in each town, I did multiple passes on the main drags and side streets to take them in and observe the housing stock. The time really added up. I didn't take a single break. Both meals I ate in the car. I only got out to walk a town (and sweat like Patrick Ewing at the free throw line) or food/drink/bathroom/fish for a little bit.

I went as far north as Renfrew, which was after Arnprior. Anyway, I can't even recall which towns I stopped in without referring to my itinerary. But off the top of my head I did get out and walk the nice ones like Almonte, Merrickville?, Perth (has to be top 3 or 5 in Ontario for its category - it has to contend with Elora, Stratford, NOTL, etc. Much bigger than I thought). For Tweed I went to see the bridge. Good call by Townguy. I mean, the parking lot was literally right beside it. I was expecting to have to park and walk a bit. Nope, straight to the point. Thankful for that.

Edit: To illustrate the point, I just thought about it for a few seconds and realized the suspension bridge wasn't in Tweed. It's Campbellford. As for Tweed, there was an interesting iron bridge that is now pedestrian only. I took a pic before I set foot on it. Then walked along and saw some teens jumping from it into the water. They looked at me like I was a narc as I took a couple of pics of the river (without them in the photos). I walked back to my car and one of the girls got close enough to my car to shout the plate number and make on my rental back to her group of friends. That was bizarre.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by megadude

Then walked along and saw some teens jumping from it into the water. They looked at me like I was a narc as I took a couple of pics of the river (without them in the photos). I walked back to my car and one of the girls got close enough to my car to shout the plate number and make on my rental back to her group of friends. That was bizarre.

Small towns seem to be funny that way sometimes.

Maybe 10 years ago I took a drive from Windsor up to the St. Clair Parkway through Chatham. I decided to see what some of the concession roads were like, and noticed a sign for Mitchell's Bay which is basically a village and a marina surrounded by farmland. It has a small beach and a relatively short pier out into Lake St. Clair.

I parked in a public lot to walk around a bit. It was late afternoon and there were some families near the water, and when I walked to the pier everyone became quiet, people were staring at me, and the adults seemed to go into protection mode; I wasn't even all that close to them. One lady approached and said hello, and I had the feeling she was checking me out. I politely replied, then got the hell out of there. I felt like if I'd stopped in any of the few shops (or the heavens forbid, the local restaurant) my money would not have been any good there... and perhaps I'd still "be there" today tilled under in a local field. I'm positive my description and plate number were recorded. It was like something from a Stephen King story.

By contrast, after a nice drive up the parkway, I stopped in Sarnia. I had never before been in the town itself, having only passed through on Hwy 402 to get to/from the Blue Water Bridge. There was some kind of festival going on, and people were extremely friendly both in the downtown and the parks along the south end of Lake Huron.

[hipster duck]

I didn't realize that Byward market had declined so badly. After reading this thread I actually did a Google Streetview tour, and the homeless issue is even visible there.

Those abandoned gray buildings with the steel window coverings and tall, wrought iron fences to prevent squatters looks particularly sad. I've seen those tall fences in rougher parts of LA and in Latin America. I remember seeing steel window coverings like that in Detroit twenty years ago.

---

It's easy to point fingers, but using macroeconomic and socioeconomic theories to explain the homelessness and drug epidemics only goes so far.

You'd think the reason that Vancouver and San Francisco have real problems in this area is because of housing affordability, but then you find that it's just as bad in 'cheap' cities like Philadelphia.

So then you say it's because the US doesn't have a European social safety net, but you find out that drugs and homelessness are just as much of a problem in places like Frankfurt.

[le calmar]

Decided to check out Tweed while on my way back to the GTA. I am frankly impressed with urban vibes of the place and its architecture. Completely different than the ugly towns along Hwy 7 (save Carleton Place and Perth). Will head to Campbellford via the side roads and will head back to the 401 from there.

Edit: Campbellford was quite nice, as well as Warkworth close by.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I didn't realize that Byward market had declined so badly. After reading this thread I actually did a Google Streetview tour, and the homeless issue is even visible there.

I honestly think it’s turning into a dump, and I’m close to the point I want nothing to do with it. And I’m far from the only person who thinks that. The place is about to decline big time if nothing is done.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I didn't realize that Byward market had declined so badly. After reading this thread I actually did a Google Streetview tour, and the homeless issue is even visible there.

Those abandoned gray buildings with the steel window coverings and tall, wrought iron fences to prevent squatters looks particularly sad. I've seen those tall fences in rougher parts of LA and in Latin America. I remember seeing steel window coverings like that in Detroit twenty years ago.

--.

In fairness, those images aren't representative of the core of the Byward Market. Though there is also another troubled area at the corner of Cumberland and George streets. While these are peripheral to the market (no reason for most walkers to go there) but also close enough to have some of their denizens drift over into the touristy areas. In fact, that's one very noticeable thing: the slow but steady expansion of the rot towards the touristy core area of the market (centred around William and Clarence streets) like an oil stain on pavement that inexorably grows in size over time.

Right now the core area of the market still looks pretty healthy, with few empty storefronts and little to no abandonment.

But as Le Calmar says, it may just be a question of time before the growing stigma starts to have an effect on business traffic and a more serious decline sets in.

That's almost always how these things go.