Lamenting the decline of the car

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by milomilo

The difference in fuel economy isn't that great, and I'm not sure what logic you could use that someone who peddles oil wouldn't be concerned with the amount of fuel their car uses. It's not like we receive the fuel for free, we still pay for it. But the minor increase in fuel cost is far outweighed by the increase in practicality of a larger vehicle.

The difference certainly does add up. Compare the Toyota Camry to the RAV4

Camry: City 29, H'way 41 mpg
RAV4: City 23, H'way 30 mpg

https://www.thecarconnection.com/car...yota_rav4_2018

[Loco101]

I drive a Toyota Corolla that was made in Cambridge ON. Unfortunately, this is the last year that Corollas will be made in Ontario. I believe the plant there is switching to the Rav4 and Lexus crossovers which are better sellers.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The difference certainly does add up. Compare the Toyota Camry to the RAV4

Camry: City 29, H'way 41 mpg
RAV4: City 23, H'way 30 mpg

https://www.thecarconnection.com/car...yota_rav4_2018

The EPA methodology used to quote fuel economy is flawed. Check out any of the car enthusiast sites for details. It tends to understate fuel economy of small vehicles and manual transmissions while overstating it for trucks, SUV's, AWD and traditional (not dual clutch) automatic transmissions.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The difference certainly does add up. Compare the Toyota Camry to the RAV4

Camry: City 29, H'way 41 mpg
RAV4: City 23, H'way 30 mpg

https://www.thecarconnection.com/car...yota_rav4_2018

Fair enough, that's significant relatively. But fuel is cheap. If you travel 10,000km st 23mpg, that's about $1100. At 29mpg, it's $892 (fuel cost dependent of course). That's a $200 difference, peanuts if you value the extra practicality.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Fair enough, that's significant relatively. But fuel is cheap. If you travel 10,000km st 23mpg, that's about $1100. At 29mpg, it's $892 (fuel cost dependent of course). That's a $200 difference, peanuts if you value the extra practicality.

But if you advocate for a carbon tax, you're relying on that difference to influence people's behaviour. Also, the RAV4 costs a thousand more.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by whatnext

But if you advocate for a carbon tax, you're relying on that difference to influence people's behaviour. Also, the RAV4 costs a thousand more.

I do, but the prices currently are what they are. Even with a $100/tonne carbon tax fuel here would still be cheap anyway, but the vehicles on the market would change somewhat. AFAIK, in the UK even though fuel is insanely expensive, SUVs are still increasingly popular, just they come with more efficient engines than here.

[SpongeG]

Where I work up north cars are impractical. Without a 4x4 most wouldnt drive in winter. Most new arrivals with cars, usually from Nova Scotia it seems, quickly buy a truck as soon as they can.

Outside of cities I think trucks are the vehicle of choice.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I drive a Toyota Corolla that was made in Cambridge ON. Unfortunately, this is the last year that Corollas will be made in Ontario. I believe the plant there is switching to the Rav4 and Lexus crossovers which are better sellers.

That has more to do with the greater profit margins on the Rav4 and Lexus, which offsets the more expensive Canadian labour costs. All in all, not a good sign for Canada's auto industry.

[esquire]

Part of the popularity of trucks and SUVs/crossovers has to be the arms race mindset. If you drive a regular car, particularly a smaller one, anywhere outside the central areas of the big 3 cities, you can't help but feel a little vulnerable on the road... there are just so many big trucks and SUVs out there.

For example, a friend of mine was in a head on collision recently with his kids in the car... he was driving a Toyota Corolla. They were scratched up a bit but fortunately no serious injuries. However, it was frightening enough that he went out and bought a SUV as a replacement... he won't go back to a car.

[theman23]

I recently was in central Washington during a snow storm and it dawned on me why people buy huge SUVs even if they don't usually use the space. If you live in a medium to small sized city where it snows often, chances are you WILL be driving on unplowed road frequently. The extra clearance and AWD really does help. I did ok in my FWD hatchback, but the driving would have been substantially less nerve wracking in my colleague's SUV.

And with that being said, I have no idea why so many people in Vancouver drive pickup trucks. I'm happy with my hatchback as my daily and small little roadster for the weekends.

[ColdGarden]

Extra clearance, more comfortable, more space. There are so many advantages. A few bucks in gas is totally worth it.

Another big one not mentioned yet is comfort from the perspective of the kids too. Not only is it easier to get babies in and out of the back (no more bending over), but my kids were never able to spend time in the smaller car for more than about 15 minutes. In the SUV they are happy, able to sleep, and don't complain nearly as much.

SUV's just make sense. Unless "handling" is really your top priority in a vehicle.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by ColdGarden

Extra clearance, more comfortable, more space. There are so many advantages. A few bucks in gas is totally worth it.

Another big one not mentioned yet is comfort from the perspective of the kids too. Not only is it easier to get babies in and out of the back (no more bending over), but my kids were never able to spend time in the smaller car for more than about 15 minutes. In the SUV they are happy, able to sleep, and don't complain nearly as much.

SUV's just make sense. Unless "handling" is really your top priority in a vehicle.

I'm a family guy with a crossover SUV and a family sedan. I can't say that I have really noticed any SUV advantages regarding getting kids in and out or their own comfort level.

However, the SUV definitely offers the advantage of being able to haul larger items or bust through snowdrifts on those occasions you need it to. And neither situation is all that rare. There is undoubtedly a level of practicality that you get with an SUV. And practicality is what I am after... IDGAF about handling or whatever. To me, cars are basically appliances on wheels that do a job.

[flar]

I would like to get a new car, but I can't find anything I like as much as my Subaru wagon. I love all the space in the back, never gets stuck and it's fun to drive. The new Subarus are just like all the other cars. I hate the recent auto trends, basically crossovers and SUVs.

I drove a Nissan Murrano during my vacation, which is an SUV, and really did not enjoy driving it at all. Will not buy an SUV.

[Coldrsx]

What I would like to see is a $.10/L non-commercial tax on gas to fun alternative transit opportunities.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by milomilo

AFAIK, in the UK even though fuel is insanely expensive, SUVs are still increasingly popular,

The crossover is gaining in all of Europe even.

Despite growing at a slower rate than in previous years, the shift from traditional cars to SUVs continued in 2018. In total, 5.4 million SUVs were registered in Europe throughout the year, up 19% on 2017, as their market share increased from 29.2% to 34.6%. Demand for SUVs grew by 20% between 2016 and 2017, by 21% between 2015 and 2016, and by 24% between 2014 and 2015, and has more than doubled over the last four years. “Unlike other market trends that can often be short-lived, the SUV boom is stable and long-lasting. The success is down to the industry listening to consumers and giving them what they want in terms of design, subsegments and categories,” comments Munoz.

https://www.jato.com/european-car-ma...re-since-2001/

just they come with more efficient engines than here.

Though government tax policies trying to increase fuel mileage also led to the diesel debacle.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by esquire

Part of the popularity of trucks and SUVs/crossovers has to be the arms race mindset. If you drive a regular car, particularly a smaller one, anywhere outside the central areas of the big 3 cities, you can't help but feel a little vulnerable on the road... there are just so many big trucks and SUVs out there.

For example, a friend of mine was in a head on collision recently with his kids in the car... he was driving a Toyota Corolla. They were scratched up a bit but fortunately no serious injuries. However, it was frightening enough that he went out and bought a SUV as a replacement... he won't go back to a car.

On the other hand, the elevated sense of security leads to aggressive driving. There are some studies that show that SUV drivers are the most likely to drive over the speed limit, text while driving, and the one I notice just about every day: tail gate.

[kool maudit]

This is one of those threads that underscores the sense of distance expressed in the living abroad thread...

Crossovers are basically not a thing here, SUVs even less so.

People drive hatchbacks and sedans. The VW Polo is probably the most common car. Interestingly, the European makers seen as high-end in North America expand their model ranges lower here to the point where a 3-series can be had with a 1.4 litre engine and cloth seat. When you see a 5 series BMW, it's never a 540i. It's almost always a 520i or 523i, neither of which make it to North America. Gas is more than twice the price it is in Canada here.

You see a lot of Teslas in my Rosedale-ish neighbourhood due to a tax credit that recently expired. Danes pay a 100% tax on all cars, so cars cost at least twice what they do in Canada. They slashed that for electrics for a long time.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Of course the mini-vans and especially SUVs are far more profitable per-vehicle than your standard car so this is why our 3 domestic producers have retrenched.

This is kind of off topic but why do people still refer to American car companies as domestic? The days of the Auto Pact are long gone. GM, Ford and Chrysler are foreign based companies with no loyalty to Canada. There's nothing domestic about them.

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Where I work up north cars are impractical. Without a 4x4 most wouldnt drive in winter. Most new arrivals with cars, usually from Nova Scotia it seems, quickly buy a truck as soon as they can.

Outside of cities I think trucks are the vehicle of choice.

Where do you live? The province where people drive the most small cars is apparently Quebec, where they get more snow than in most of the rest of the country. Quebec City, for example, gets more than twice as much snow as Prince George, BC. Cars are just fine in almost any winter climate.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by flar

I would like to get a new car, but I can't find anything I like as much as my Subaru wagon. I love all the space in the back, never gets stuck and it's fun to drive. The new Subarus are just like all the other cars. I hate the recent auto trends, basically crossovers and SUVs.

I drove a Nissan Murrano during my vacation, which is an SUV, and really did not enjoy driving it at all. Will not buy an SUV.

I have a Honda Civic coupe and it's awful in winter. Even with winter tires, there are a small number of relatively low incline routes I have to take - and starting from a full stop can be difficult in snow even on flat ground. I slide all the time; I've just gotten used to compensating for it and knowing exactly what my car can do.

*****

One difference I'm always struck by between Europe and North America is that in much of Europe people simply do not have an expectation that their car remain in pristine condition. When parking, they back up until they tap the car behind them. Every car is covered in little dings and scratches.

It's the same even in St-Pierre (off the coast of Newfoundland), where they have a mix of small European and large North American vehicles. Every vehicle is lived in.



Terre Neuve et St-Pierre et Miquelon by R C, on Flickr



Also, seeing so many North American and European vehicles together really makes that North American gluttony and sense of entitlement obvious:

[Coldrsx]

This is what anyone north of the 53rd should be driving.


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...pswbpl2qow.jpg