PHILADELPHIA | Penn's Landing Redevelopment | 703 - 175 FT | 57 - 12 FLOORS

[phishtown]

This should be pretty game changing from a skyline/city feel perspective too. Obviously viewed from north or south it'll provide a lot more balance to the skyline, but I noticed that the tallest tower is basically in line with Market Street, which means it should be substantially visible even from university city at that height. Fingers crossed on this!

[Zapatan]

True ^^ I think Philly will be one of the US's next megacities someday. The potential for growth is huge.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

True ^^ I think Philly will be one of the US's next megacities someday. The potential for growth is huge.

Glad at least SOMEONE thinks that way.

[arkitect13]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

True ^^ I think Philly will be one of the US's next megacities someday. The potential for growth is huge.

I would agree.
TBH the main things holding the city back, in my opinion, are, lackluster-ish subway and regional rail lines, crime, poverty, (which is improving, slowly). Granted those would take a while to fix, at least were getting there

[Boku]

Originally Posted by arkitect13

I would agree.
TBH the main things holding the city back, in my opinion, are, lackluster-ish subway and regional rail lines, crime, poverty, (which is improving, slowly). Granted those would take a while to fix, at least were getting there

Ah man, can we not start this conversation on every thread.

[mcgrath618]

So, which do you all think will be built out first? This or Schuylkill Yards? Isn't it insane that we have two megaprojects like this going on at once?

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

So, which do you all think will be built out first? This or Schuylkill Yards? Isn't it insane that we have two megaprojects like this going on at once?

Schuylkill Yards. It's had like a 4 year head start. And even though it is more expansive than Penn's Landing, it seems to have more traction than the perpetually challenged Penn's Landing.
However, I think PL will be done before the 30th Street District.

[PhillyDreamsReturns]

Schuylkill Yards does a whole lot more talking than actual building. I’m losing confidence over there. I’m in camp Penn’s Landing now.

[allovertown]

It was just a rehab of an existing building and a public park but I think it's safe to say Schuylkill Yards has already started. First two projects already in the books and 3025 JFK is supposed to start soon if you're waiting for the first new construction building.

I'm bizarrely confident this gets done eventually though. Looks like an incredible project.

[arkitect13]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

So, which do you all think will be built out first? This or Schuylkill Yards? Isn't it insane that we have two megaprojects like this going on at once?

This. I believe its a 9 year plan at most.

[Redddog]

The Penns Landing Rd part looks amazing.

It's a bummer that i'll likely be dead when this is done.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Redddog

The Penns Landing Rd part looks amazing.

It's a bummer that i'll likely be dead when this is done.

You’ll be dead in 8 years?

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by Redddog

The Penns Landing Rd part looks amazing.

It's a bummer that i'll likely be dead when this is done.

I think you're asking the wrong question. Considering the graveyard of proposals that is Penn's Landing, and that I believe that this is easily the largest proposal EVER? for Philly, and its being sponsored by a very conservative, take no risks, NYC developer (that's well funded), I think the question for many of us who have more years behind us then in front of us, is will we be dead before this even starts. Remember all Durst has 'won' is the right to have further talks about what they might like to do. There's no promise to do anything. Once Durst has to start spending serious money is when I'll start seeing light at the end of the tunnel.

SY's is a project where the developer already controls most if not all the site and is working with Drexel Univ. and they have one growing company, Sparks, already asking for more space, more then their one building can give them. My dime would be that SY's would be well on its way to being built out before Penn's Landing starts construction.

[iheartphilly]

^
If I were the Durst folks, I like to see Penn's Landing Park get built first before committing any serious money to their rights to develop the Waterfront. And, the Park is about 4 or 5 years out from being built, so to me it looks like SY developer will have all the momentum from now until 4 or 5 years into the future to get its vision built out.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by City Wide

I think you're asking the wrong question. Considering the graveyard of proposals that is Penn's Landing, and that I believe that this is easily the largest proposal EVER? for Philly, and its being sponsored by a very conservative, take no risks, NYC developer (that's well funded), I think the question for many of us who have more years behind us then in front of us, is will we be dead before this even starts. Remember all Durst has 'won' is the right to have further talks about what they might like to do. There's no promise to do anything. Once Durst has to start spending serious money is when I'll start seeing light at the end of the tunnel.

SY's is a project where the developer already controls most if not all the site and is working with Drexel Univ. and they have one growing company, Sparks, already asking for more space, more then their one building can give them. My dime would be that SY's would be well on its way to being built out before Penn's Landing starts construction.

This is what I meant. There is absolutely no guarantee that ground will break on this plan ever.

[McBane]

I'm late to the party here but when I look at this, I'm torn.

On one hand, the design is beautiful. I love the height and the design of the buildings. I also appreciate how the plan "loads up" the density in high rise buildings, allowing for open space.

However, this flies in the face of the Delaware Ave Master Plan. That plan is premised on the idea that there is a finite number of people who will live along the river and best to spread them out in low rise buildings that can populate and rejuvenate the length of the Delaware Ave (at least within Center City) rather then cannibalizing everyone in a couple of high rises surrounded by empty, vacant, and underutilized lots. I believe that plan also included a model to extend the grid over 95/Delaware Ave.

To me, the Delaware Ave Master Plan seems much more realistic - although I recognize it's far less sexy. The Durst plan is a return to the failed logic of the past, i.e., that the riverfront can be fixed by one developer and some fancy drawings.

The best case scenario is that the plan is built in its entirety, which in turns spurs further development along the river. The more plausible scenario is the status quo and if we're lucky, perhaps 1-2 towers get built (definitely shorter ones and valued engineered to death) over the course of the next 5-10 years. Sorry but history has conditioned me be negative when it comes to grand schemes along the riverfront.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by McBane

I'm late to the party here but when I look at this, I'm torn.

On one hand, the design is beautiful. I love the height and the design of the buildings. I also appreciate how the plan "loads up" the density in high rise buildings, allowing for open space.

However, this flies in the face of the Delaware Ave Master Plan. That plan is premised on the idea that there is a finite number of people who will live along the river and best to spread them out in low rise buildings that can populate and rejuvenate the length of the Delaware Ave (at least within Center City) rather then cannibalizing everyone in a couple of high rises surrounded by empty, vacant, and underutilized lots. I believe that plan also included a model to extend the grid over 95/Delaware Ave.

To me, the Delaware Ave Master Plan seems much more realistic - although I recognize it's far less sexy. The Durst plan is a return to the failed logic of the past, i.e., that the riverfront can be fixed by one developer and some fancy drawings.

The best case scenario is that the plan is built in its entirety, which in turns spurs further development along the river. The more plausible scenario is the status quo and if we're lucky, perhaps 1-2 towers get built (definitely shorter ones and valued engineered to death) over the course of the next 5-10 years. Sorry but history has conditioned me be negative when it comes to grand schemes along the riverfront.

I don't think this goes against the Delaware River Master plan in any significant way.

The master plan wasn't simply against height. More than anything it was against the types of density bomb projects like waterfront square that swallow up all the demand and leave the surrounding area fallow. But as you mention yourself, despite the height of some aspects of this project, because there is so much open space included, the density in any one location is still not overwhelming.

And besides, there is a huge difference between a developer wanting to load up on density on some random plot of land they own at like Tasker Street, to maximize the profitability of their own development to the detriment of the rest of the waterfront and what is happening here. Where the tallest buildings are proposed is directly next to one of the biggest public works projects in philadelphia's history and the soon to be, epicenter of the waterfront.

I get spreading density around, but if you're going tall anywhere, it's next to this park.

Besides, most of this project is not very tall, and forgetting height for a moment, this project really seems to tick off all of the major aspects of the master plan. Open public space, pedestrian friendly streets, the inclusion of retail, access to the water, etc.

You can be pessimistic it won't all happen or it will cutback and value engineered, that's fair. But if it does happen, it's hard to imagine a project more in tune with the waterfront master plan.

[Vince_]

Originally Posted by allovertown

"this project really seems to tick off all of the major aspects of the master plan. Open public space, pedestrian friendly streets, the inclusion of retail, access to the water, etc."

I love all of those aspects, but I just really liked the concert venue proposal from the DC company. I've been to shows at the Anthem and it really brings an energy (and customers) to the area which made it very vibrant. Plus the riverfront will have lost both Festival Pier and Great Plaza as venues. That being said, the Durst plan is still the best. Delaware Ave. needs people living there and foot traffic.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by McBane

cannibalizing everyone in a couple of high rises.

That does sound unpleasant. Sure, 95 makes the area feel a bit cut off from civilization, but I doubt things will go that far.

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by Vince_

I love all of those aspects, but I just really liked the concert venue proposal from the DC company. I've been to shows at the Anthem and it really brings an energy (and customers) to the area which made it very vibrant. Plus the riverfront will have lost both Festival Pier and Great Plaza as venues. That being said, the Durst plan is still the best. Delaware Ave. needs people living there and foot traffic.

Hopefully this plan for the PECO station redevelopment happens then and brings music back to the waterfront.