NEW YORK | Empire Station District | 9 Towers (18-20 msf)| FT | FLOORS

[chris08876]

I must admit, at first, I was not a big fan of Deblasio, but overtime, I feel he has done a great job with the city. Lots of activity is going on, and the city is booming. I like his pro-development mindset.

But... the feud with Cuomo really should stop.

This area needs to be developed ASAP. Penn Station is a cesspool that is overcrowded, and overdue for a major overhaul. The area around it has a lot of crappy structures that have past thier expiration date. The blocks around Penn need to follow in the footsteps of Hudson Yards. There is an incredible potential for this area.

The city needs to be on board with it. Let the state take control, use eminent domain to force the crap out, and build up. This whole area is prime for a mega tall btw.

The state could also gain the power to increase zoning in the area to encourage the construction of towers of unprecedented height and bulk.

Unprecedented height! That's what we need.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Let the state take control,

Yes, nothing bad ever happens when the state takes control.

[JMKeynes]

This area will emerge as the focal point of THE GREATEST CITY IN THE WORLD!!!

[chris08876]

@ skyscraper

Do you work for the New York Post...?

That is reactionary. Where talking a few blocks here. The area is overdue for an overhaul. Time is of the essence. City needs to stay competitive. Where not in a situation where the state will take over the whole Island...

Would you rather the area remain underutilized and decay or become a district that benefits 1000's via improvements or jobs for the next several decades?

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

This area will emerge as the focal point of THE GREATEST CITY IN THE WORLD!!!

Its why things like Midtown East, Hudson Yards, and soon, the Penn Station district will continue to carry the spirited and competitive mindset needed to remain the gold standard city.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by chris08876

@ skyscraper

Do you work for the New York Post...?

No, just someone who doesn't want to live in a world where the answer to problems is "let the state take control."

Originally Posted by chris08876

That is reactionary. Where talking a few blocks here. The area is overdue for an overhaul. Time is of the essence. City needs to stay competitive. Where not in a situation where the state will take over the whole Island...

...yet. But soon a few blocks become a few more blocks, and a few more blocks...
What's the hurry? Why is time of the essence? Are people and companies leaving the city that I am not aware of? Last I checked, NYC was doing pretty well for itself.
And even if time were of the essence, it's not like the government is some fast-moving body that gets things done in a hurry. The private sector, on the other hand, is.

Originally Posted by chris08876

Would you rather the area remain underutilized and decay or become a district that benefits 1000's via improvements or jobs for the next several decades?

A district that benefits thousands in improvements, jobs, etc for the next several decades. That's why I want the government to stay the hell out of it.

[chris08876]

^^^^^

The keywords are "increased zoning". The private sector will be involved, but the power to override the local government, in this case, the city government is key. Where not saying the government will be building here, but the parameters to make it a worthwhile investment for the private sector is whats at stake.

I'll give you an example for just examples sake. Lets say for whatever reason, a 100 acres holds the ability to add 10 mil-sq ft. But the local government for whatever reason is limiting its potential by only allowing 3 mil-sq ft. The state sees it as a prime opportunity for pumping the local government. Thus, the state takes control, and not only allows the full potential, but expands on it.

It creates the type of development environment that is not possible due to the limitations or lack of willpower on the part of the local government.

This is key, and right from the OP:

In the zone, the state would seek the authority to supersede city environmental and land-use reviews that normally dictate development.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

No, just someone who doesn't want to live in a world where the answer to problems is "let the state take control."

For godsakes the use of the term "state" in a geopolitical context - especially an historic geopolitical context, has little to nothing to do with the American "state". Your kneejerk posting of the East German goosesteppers or whatever just makes you look silly.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

For godsakes the use of the term "state" in a geopolitical context - especially an historic geopolitical context, has little to nothing to do with the American "state". Your kneejerk posting of the East German goosesteppers or whatever just makes you look silly.

Your use of polysyllabic words to make you sound smart makes you look silly (historic geopolitical context? give me a fucking break.) I understand the difference some people make, but the government is the government. City, state, federal, local, it's all the same. Once you give up control to it at any level, you have surrendered.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by chris08876

^^^^^

The keywords are "increased zoning". The private sector will be involved, but the power to override the local government, in this case, the city government is key. Where not saying the government will be building here, but the parameters to make it a worthwhile investment for the private sector is whats at stake.

I'll give you an example for just examples sake. Lets say for whatever reason, a 100 acres holds the ability to add 10 mil-sq ft. But the local government for whatever reason is limiting its potential by only allowing 3 mil-sq ft. The state sees it as a prime opportunity for pumping the local government. Thus, the state takes control, and not only allows the full potential, but expands on it.

It creates the type of development environment that is not possible due to the limitations or lack of willpower on the part of the local government.

This is key, and right from the OP:

the best thing the government at any level can do is get out of the way. And it is really scary precedent for the government to take private land from one private entity and give it to another private entity because the state thinks it could be used better. I realize there is precedent for it, so you don't need to dig up Kelo for me, I am saying this is bad precedent.
the key is you can't let the government determine the value. that is what the free market is for.

[antinimby]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

Your use of polysyllabic words to make you sound smart makes you look silly (historic geopolitical context? give me a fucking break.) I understand the difference some people make, but the government is the government. City, state, federal, local, it's all the same. Once you give up control to it at any level, you have surrendered.

Except without intervention by the state/Cuomo, NYC and its draconian zoning regulations along with its sham public review process (which is really a way for anyone who objects to anything to throw in a wrench in any plans any private developer have for their own property) are in a way even worse when it comes to government control and micromanagement of the free market, which NYC does not really have because of the overregulation and bureaucracy.

So in a way, you are arguing for more government control and against less government control.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by antinimby

Except without intervention by the state/Cuomo, NYC and its draconian zoning regulations along with its sham public review process (which is really a way for anyone who objects to anything to throw in a wrench in any plans any private developer have for their own property) are in a way even worse when it comes to government control and micromanagement of the free market, which NYC does not really have because of the overregulation and bureaucracy.

So in a way, you are arguing for more government control and against less government control.

what you are describing is a turf war between the city and state governments. they are fighting over who gets to control the free market (in broad terms.) My argument is that neither does. so no, I am not arguing for more government control, I am saying they are both wrong to try.

[antinimby]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

what you are describing is a turf war between the city and state governments. they are fighting over who gets to control the free market (in broad terms.) My argument is that neither does. so no, I am not arguing for more government control, I am saying they are both wrong to try.

What you don’t get is that the current default is draconian NYC government excessive control. That is why nothing gets done in this city unless it is late and overbudget. Arguing against the state coming in and overriding NYC’s excessive control is actually arguing for government control.

In other words, if you are against too much government interference, then you should actually be siding in this case with NY State / Cuomo.

Are you understanding or are you just arguing without realizing the situation?

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

Your use of polysyllabic words to make you sound smart makes you look silly (historic geopolitical context? give me a fucking break.)

I just spit my food out. If you can't make sense of the big words that mean things maybe this will help:

Historic: 3 syllables. It means stuff that happened in the past n whatnot. Geopolitical: 6 syllables. It means hav'n to do with international politics n stuff. Context: A big 2 syllable word that means the setting or the situation at like a period of time n stuff


I've gotta knock all my smarty pants big word talk off. I know the best words BTW.

[chris08876]

I'll add this as well:

According to sources, the state would capture potentially billions of dollars of additional tax revenue from the larger properties built in the neighborhood and then use those funds to make sweeping fixes to Penn Station.

Not sure why some are against this. And yes time is of the essence. Anybody who's been to Penn understands the need to fix the station.

Quite frankly the extra property taxes and revenue can't wait for the review process and environmental studies to drag things down. Glad the state is getting involved.

[Prezrezc]

Last I checked, a governor's power to do things for the public benefit of the state he governs trumps the living sh*t out of the desire of the PTB's of that state's largest city---indeed, the largest in the country---to stop him from doing it.

I'm not a Cuomo fan; but in this case he's 100% in the right. Rank justifies prerogative, most certainly in this instance.

Simple as that. And while he's at it, Cuomo...if not anyone else...needs to tell Vornado to take a dump or get off the can.

[Amanita]

Would you be cool with the government seizing YOUR property "for the greater good", after you had sunk a great deal of money into it?

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by Prezrezc

Last I checked, a governor's power to do things for the public benefit of the state he governs trumps the living sh*t out of the desire of the PTB's of that state's largest city---indeed, the largest in the country---to stop him from doing it.

I'm not a Cuomo fan; but in this case he's 100% in the right. Rank justifies prerogative, most certainly in this instance.

Simple as that. And while he's at it, Cuomo...if not anyone else...needs to tell Vornado to take a dump or get off the can.

THe Governor needs to tell the Dolans to move.

[Prezrezc]

@Amanita;

'K, I'll play.

No, I wouldn't. But why would *anyone*---from a government entity on down---plunk money into something they have no intention of improving simply because its theirs?

Or better yet, why would they do so into something they've clearly demonstrated an abject inability to improve in an efficient manner?

In this metropolis you have people who do both of what I suggested above--i.e. NIMBYs and unimginative political hacks, both, I might add, surprising for a city that proudly touts its progressivism.

Cuomo, to his credit, has pipelined certain things to make this state more competitive that it has been recently; and one such project entails plans to make his state's greatest city by far a better place to go from Point A to Point B.

I dare say he's not going to let the inner spats and intrigues of City Hall stop him from that. It's just a shame that DeBlasio doesn't seem to highly prioritize the need to keep anti-development elements from greasing influential palms.

It just seems to fly in the face of why he ostensibly ran for public office.

[Prezrezc]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

THe Governor needs to tell the Dolans to move.

^^

That especially....

And give Glen Sather a one-way direct plane ticket back to Canada.

[Amanita]

I was referring especially to One Penn Plaza- Vornado's making a decent amount of rent from that building, and later this year plans to improve it, so they can ask even more in rent money. Sure there's plenty of buildings in that area which are in pretty rough shape, but One Penn is not one of them.

Dangling some air rights at Vornado isn't going to be the sweet deal that it might be for JPMorgan- JPMorgan isn't collecting rent on 270 from a multitude of tenants. They're not going to lose years of rent money waiting for their new building to be ready. But Vornado would, and I don't think they will just roll over and let the state take out one of their most profitable (if not THE most profitable) buildings.