Austin | The Liberty (14th & Lavaca) | 413 Feet | 32 Floors | Proposed

[H2O]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

you know Kevin, in my fantasy I saw it having the potential of a 20's building, just as you say, like an old department store. If the finish out is that detailed I would be thrilled, but this has the potential of being as bad as the building at 12th and Lavaca...across from Westgate. (same folks as the tragic ABC bank on 5th). So....lets hope it lives up to our fantasies. The architect is the same person who did the Neiman's at the Domain. So... maybe there is hope! Just tired of boring infill.!

I think the sketch suggests an appropriately porportioned and detailed infill building in the tradition of the Chicago School. Not all buildings need to be foreground buildings screaming "look at me!" It will all come down to the materials and detailing used, something that can't be reasonably interpretted from an early concept sketch. Those decisions have probably not even been made yet, since they are jsut at the zoning stage.

[Scottolini]

14th and Lavaca certainly is downtown. I've never heard anyone say differently until now. The only question I've heard raised is whether 15th or MLK (19th) is considered the northern boundary. I say MLK, along with I-35, the Colorado River, and Lamar. A more compact boundary would replace West for Lamar, the river with Cesar Chavez, and like I said before 15th for MLK. This location is still well within those boundaries.

[ATXboom]

NYC... where did you get your thoughts or info regarding downtown?

As long as I've lived in Austin (15 yrs) it has been very clear that downtown is MLK to the river and I-35 to Lamar. Original downtown plat is something like 20 blocks x 20 blocks.

I'll take 50, 10 story buildings any day... look at NYC, San Fran and Chicago. This area needs it.

The effect the 4 or so currently proposed 15-20 story hotels and apartments will have a profound affect at street level downtown.

[M1EK]

There aren't 50 blocks that can have 10 story buildings downtown because of CVCs and other restrictions. This is the fly in the ointment the pseudo-NIMBYists keep ignoring. We need as much height as possible on the few CBD blocks downtown not affected by CVCs to make up for the low rises that are the limit elsewhere 'downtown'.

[Scottolini]

So, I've seen the map showing the areas where the capitol view corridors affect development. However, I've never heard what the height limit is within the capitol view corridors. Is it 50', 100', or a certain amount above sea level? If it's 60+ feet then I really think it's no that big of a deal, because you could get a lot of density in those corridors with 5 story buildings.

[urbanactivist]

Great building plan here.

It's good to see more mixed use trends like this one here in Austin. The retail is good because there's not too many places to go that immediately surround the capitol.

Though I'm not really a fan of the apartments being geared towards lobbyists. But oh well, if the shoe fits...

[M1EK]

Originally Posted by Scottolini

So, I've seen the map showing the areas where the capitol view corridors affect development. However, I've never heard what the height limit is within the capitol view corridors. Is it 50', 100', or a certain amount above sea level? If it's 60+ feet then I really think it's no that big of a deal, because you could get a lot of density in those corridors with 5 story buildings.

There is no one 'height limit' in CVCs; it depends on the spot in question. Some limit height to basically one story (areas around Woolridge Square, for instance).

Again, even if there was a one-size limit of 5 floors, though, the fact that we can't get any density anywhere other than downtown means this really hurts.

[JACKinBeantown]

A slightly related article in the Times...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/wo...ia/12fuji.html

[Scottolini]

Originally Posted by M1EK

Again, even if there was a one-size limit of 5 floors, though, the fact that we can't get any density anywhere other than downtown means this really hurts.

Not trying to argue, but what about VMU along the core transit corridors? What about projects like Mueller, Concordia, Crestview Station, Robinson Ranch, etc?

[The Lorax]

Someone commented that the developer is seeking a "variance" from a Capitol View Corridor -- that's not true, nor is it possible. CVCs are a creature of both city and state law, and the city has no ability to override them. This building respects the CVCs and the Capitol Dominance District, which ensures that buildings within a 1/4 mile of the Capitol dome are proportionate in height.

[Downtown_Austin]

Originally Posted by Scottolini

Not trying to argue, but what about VMU along the core transit corridors? What about projects like Mueller, Concordia, Crestview Station, Robinson Ranch, etc?

I've never believed the Mueller hype. It's a big strip mall.

[M1EK]

Originally Posted by Scottolini

Not trying to argue, but what about VMU along the core transit corridors? What about projects like Mueller, Concordia, Crestview Station, Robinson Ranch, etc?

VMU was decimated during the "opt-in, opt-out" process. Did you miss all the commentary on Austin Contrarian and my own blog?

Mueller's density at build-out will be negligible. Crestview Station is a 2-3 story tiltwall apartment/retail complex. Concordia might help a bit; so you're 1 for 3. Robinson Ranch is way too far out to even dream about.

[Scottolini]

Originally Posted by Downtown_Austin

I've never believed the Mueller hype. It's a big strip mall.

10,000 residents and 10,000 people working, along with substantial parkland all in 700 acres is not "a big strip mall".

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by The Lorax

Someone commented that the developer is seeking a "variance" from a Capitol View Corridor -- that's not true, nor is it possible. CVCs are a creature of both city and state law, and the city has no ability to override them. This building respects the CVCs and the Capitol Dominance District, which ensures that buildings within a 1/4 mile of the Capitol dome are proportionate in height.

Hey, welcome to the forum. I recognize your handle from Statesman.com. How did you find the forum? I've promoted the forum a little in comments on Statesman.com just by mentioning it.

Originally Posted by Downtown_Austin

I've never believed the Mueller hype. It's a big strip mall.

They have said several times that building heights at Mueller are expected to rise to 120 feet. 120 feet is the citywide height limit imposed by the City of Austin. I would imagine though there could be exemptions to that rule just like there were with the proposed Twelve Domain project by Novare, which would be 320 feet tall. Not to mention nearly every midrise outside of downtown and Central Austin which are over 120 feet tall. Really, almost every one of the midrise buildings outside of downtown are more than 120 feet. The three down at I-35 & 71, Pinnacle Campus, Chase Tower at 183, the hotels at I-35 and 290 & 183. And then there's also the buildings at the Triangle. Those are state office buildings though. All of those are over 120 feet. Even the two Stonegate office buildings at Mopac & 183 are supposed to be 120 feet, but I doubt that. They seem taller than 120 feet. My point is, the height limit citywide is 120 feet, but it's been waived many times. I doubt Mueller will be any different. Even the Dell Children's Medical Center was first planned as a 15-story hospital tower. It probably would have been 200 feet tall if they'd gone with that plan.

[Downtown_Austin]

Originally Posted by Scottolini

10,000 residents and 10,000 people working, along with substantial parkland all in 700 acres is not "a big strip mall".

For clarity I can refine my comment to the retail - or much of the M in VMU. And, what is so V about Mueller, the most vertical structure are the apartments, and how many stories are those?

The retail IS built around gigantic surface level parking lot, just like you have at Brodie Oaks, or any other strip mall engulfed by big box stores.

[Downtown_Austin]

Originally Posted by The Lorax

Someone commented that the developer is seeking a "variance" from a Capitol View Corridor -- that's not true, nor is it possible. CVCs are a creature of both city and state law, and the city has no ability to override them. This building respects the CVCs and the Capitol Dominance District, which ensures that buildings within a 1/4 mile of the Capitol dome are proportionate in height.

Interesting, a portion of the property is clearly inside a CVC. How they intend to work around that I do not know. I wasn't aware of the Capitol Dominance District, and I had a conversation with someone regarding the variances they are seeking (which is why I said, "I believe"). So thanks for correcting me on that.

[M1EK]

Originally Posted by Scottolini

10,000 residents and 10,000 people working, along with substantial parkland all in 700 acres is not "a big strip mall".

A big strip mall with a big medium-density suburban subdivision (with a nice grid layout, at least). Happy?

[The Lorax]

The structure includes a cut out on the south elevation to accomodate the CVC. They incorporate a rooftop terrace on the 10th level in this space. Pretty neat treatment.

[Scottolini]

So in this location a building can rise 10 stories, even though it's within a CVC? It appears the CVCs may not be as serious of an impediment to density downtown as I imagined.

[M1EK]

Originally Posted by Scottolini

So in this location a building can rise 10 stories, even though it's within a CVC? It appears the CVCs may not be as serious of an impediment to density downtown as I imagined.

The CVCs are a huge impact on many blocks; on other blocks they are negligible. As I said several posts back, the height can vary from as little as 1 story to many stories up (some other high rises' stepping is due to the CVCs).

The majority of the blocks with NO impact from CVCs have already been developed.