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  #21  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 2:04 PM
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  #22  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 2:17 PM
LightingGuy LightingGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
The CEO of Binance moving to Dubai should tell you where this party is going ...
Not sure what that has to do with anything...

And there's a difference between an exchange and the asset itself.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 2:22 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by LightingGuy View Post
Not sure what that has to do with anything...

And there's a difference between an exchange and the asset itself.
You don't think the CEO of the largest exchange for crypto moving to a non-extradition country is news?

What would you say if the CEO of NYSE did the same?
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  #24  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 2:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
You don't think the CEO of the largest exchange for crypto moving to a non-extradition country is news?

What would you say if the CEO of NYSE did the same?
I don't know much about the situation, but suppose what you're saying is true and he moved there to avoid extradition.. what does that have to do with the integrity of bitcoin?
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  #25  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 2:33 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by LightingGuy View Post
I don't know much about the situation, but suppose what you're saying is true and he moved there to avoid extradition.. what does that have to do with the integrity of bitcoin?
What do you think would happen to faith in the stock market if the CEO of the stock market tried to move out of reach while the market was under investigation?

But hey, it's your money. Please go all in. But no matter how much you talk about it, you won't find the majority of the public getting on your shady bandwagon.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 2:42 PM
LightingGuy LightingGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
What do you think would happen to faith in the stock market if the CEO of the stock market tried to move out of reach while the market was under investigation?

But hey, it's your money. Please go all in. But no matter how much you talk about it, you won't find the majority of the public getting on your shady bandwagon.
People do shady shit with stocks all the time. But we don't question the integrity of the stock market as a result of it.

Everything that everyone has said here so far, I also thought up until 4 months ago. Then I spent 200 hours studying the technology and how it actually works and was blown away by it. But if you don't spend the time studying it then it sounds like a bunch of voodoo.

Doesn't mean there aren't real concerns with the technology, but it is going to be a part of the future whether people like to hear it or not (appears currently they don't).
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  #27  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 2:53 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by LightingGuy View Post
People do shady shit with stocks all the time. But we don't question the integrity of the stock market as a result of it.

Everything that everyone has said here so far, I also thought up until 4 months ago. Then I spent 200 hours studying the technology and how it actually works and was blown away by it. But if you don't spend the time studying it then it sounds like a bunch of voodoo.

Doesn't mean there aren't real concerns with the technology, but it is going to be a part of the future whether people like to hear it or not (appears currently they don't).
From the perspective of using it as a store of value the technology is largely irrelevant. What matters is the economics. The economics are nonsensical (which is why the industry is full of charlatans and conmen).
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  #28  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 3:07 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
From the perspective of using it as a store of value the technology is largely irrelevant. What matters is the economics. The economics are nonsensical (which is why the industry is full of charlatans and conmen).
Can you elaborate on that?
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  #29  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 3:09 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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200 hrs studying up? Well then....
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  #30  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 3:34 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by LightingGuy View Post
Can you elaborate on that?
Crypto currencies have no intrinsic value. This is also true of fiat currencies, but at least fiat currencies have states behind them to give some longer-term credibility (you can walk in to a bank with a $10 bill from 1935 and redeem it for face value, for example).

There are no barriers to entry to crypto. Anyone with some open source software can start their own, whatever crypto is trendy this year may not be trendy next year.

Crypto is far too volatile to be used as a unit of exchange for most purposes. How do you buy corn futures for September when you don't know if bitcoin will be worth 25k or 80k (its range over the last few months in CAD).

So what you are left with is a purely speculative product with no intrinsic value. Purely speculative products with no intrinsic value do not have a good track record.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
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  #31  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 3:41 PM
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At least with tulip bulbs, you could still grow some flowers in your garden.

What do you do with crypto after the crash???

Crypto is quite literally good for nothing. ...............
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  #32  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 3:44 PM
LightingGuy LightingGuy is offline
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I probably shouldn't have started of directly with the bitcoin angle. I fully acknowledge that I'm wrong all the time about many things and a lot of my ideas are bad, so it's certainly possible that I'm wrong about bitcoin as well. My intent is to just have a discussion so I can learn more.

What I really wanted to focus on was the future of our monetary policies. If this isn't the place to discuss it then so be it and I can accept that. But, at the moment it seems that we are almost certainly headed into a recession, the first one in 13 years (discounting the one quarter after the covid crash).

It's not guaranteed that this recession will be as severe or worse than 2008, but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibilities. It's not something most people like to think about, but as someone who works for himself I have to think about these and plan for them to avoid getting wiped out. Again, if this is not the place to discuss it then so be it.

IF it is an extremely severe recession (2008 or worse for example), then what will most likely happen is we get more bailouts, and more money created to "soften the blow". I say that because that's what the response was in 1987, 2000, 2008 and 2020.

If it turns out that this recession is much more severe then governments across the world are going to have a decision to make:

1. Let the economy crash, have people lose their jobs, and homes, and businesses on a scale unlike we've ever seen in our lifetimes, not to mention default on their own government debt when tax revenue drops, or...

2. Bailout everyone using "borrowed" money from the central banks (which is just new money created that will never be paid back in full), which would almost certainly result in inflation, and probably even higher inflation than we are experiencing right now.

Historically, going back 500 years, when governments are in this situation, they always go for option 2. They didn't create the situation, they just inherited it from their predecessors, but they do have to deal with it and do what they think is best for the people (and get themselves re-elected). Historically that means that they believe that it would be easier for people to accept inflation than losing everything.

If (and I can't stress the "IF" enough) we are now at that point, then I fully expect all governments including our own to choose inflation, which would reduce the number of defaults but ultimately sacrifice the currency.

Canada is in relatively good position compared to most other countries, but certainly not immune to this. Poorer countries with lots of debt will almost certainly see their currencies collapse if this recession is that severe.

So my question is, when this happens, whether it's this year or 20 years from now, what then? I obviously have my own ideas about what I think might happen, but other people see this from another point of view and I would like to know what they think - I like finding out when I'm wrong about things as it improves my perspective.

Last edited by LightingGuy; Jun 24, 2022 at 3:56 PM.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 3:44 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
What do you do with crypto after the crash???
Enjoy the climate change caused by crypto mining in places full of coal power.

Literal hot air.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 3:50 PM
LightingGuy LightingGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Crypto currencies have no intrinsic value. This is also true of fiat currencies, but at least fiat currencies have states behind them to give some longer-term credibility (you can walk in to a bank with a $10 bill from 1935 and redeem it for face value, for example).

There are no barriers to entry to crypto. Anyone with some open source software can start their own, whatever crypto is trendy this year may not be trendy next year.

Crypto is far too volatile to be used as a unit of exchange for most purposes. How do you buy corn futures for September when you don't know if bitcoin will be worth 25k or 80k (its range over the last few months in CAD).

So what you are left with is a purely speculative product with no intrinsic value. Purely speculative products with no intrinsic value do not have a good track record.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
That's a fair argument. I see things differently, but that doesn't mean I'm right. We won't know until we know I guess. I already stated my thoughts on it though and don't want this to be the focus of the thread.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 3:53 PM
LightingGuy LightingGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Enjoy the climate change caused by crypto mining in places full of coal power.

Literal hot air.
That's not entirely true, a lot of the energy being used for mining is excess energy that would've been lost otherwise. The mining computers are scaled up and down based on the available excess energy. A lot of other mining computers run completely off of solar. I don't know the exact numbers or percentages on this though.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by LightingGuy View Post
That's not entirely true, a lot of the energy being used for mining is excess energy that would've been lost otherwise. The mining computers are scaled up and down based on the available excess energy. A lot of other mining computers run completely off of solar. I don't know the exact numbers or percentages on this though.
Still a horrible waste of electricity (and CPUs).

Just think how many EVs could be charged with the electricity wasted on crypto.........
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  #37  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 3:58 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Lakelocker is back.
Nice call!
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  #38  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 3:58 PM
LightingGuy LightingGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Just think how many EVs could be charged
I don't disagree with that
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  #39  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 3:59 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by LightingGuy View Post
Like I said it's not ready in its current form, but a 70% crash is mild and an improvement.
70% is mild and an improvement? Uhhh, if our real estate and/or stock market crashed to that level we would be a basket case economy for decades.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 4:00 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by biguc View Post
I actually got curious about how El Salvador is doing with Bitcoin crashing. Apparently they're working with an NFT peddler called Astro Babies (as if we needed another reminder that this shit is all just Beanie Babies) to release their own crypto token.
I could build a shelter out of beanie babies, and they can help keep me warm at night. They have more value.
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