Is Dallas' core infill being overlooked?

[mhays]

I respect what Uptown has become, similar to Atlanta's Midtown.

I wish buildings didn't all come with huge amounts of parking. It means you get big buildings with big garages, or small buildings with surface parking, but not the countless small-but-urban buildings of a traditional city.

Oak Cliff / Bishop Arts seem to have good things happening but should be peppered with single/double-lot apartment buildings.

[dktshb]

Originally Posted by benp

Imagine if instead of the parking alongside Post Oak in Houston that it was a walkable esplanade. That alone could be a huge leap to make it a great urban area, instead it's strip mall parking lots with big buildings nearby.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/tXhWecHUg4kaWxCd7

That area I guess would be comparable to the Cherry Creek Mall or Cherry Creek neighborhood of Denver. Even though the neighborhood is anchored by a suburban style mall it still seems to have a better urban fabric.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/GRWZFrpYP56wB77G6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/53PiKdxLzKz2nPRT9

Although this is pretty atrocious:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/fLvHsZBzphV74WpT7

Maybe there is a plan for this parking lot that surrounds what appears to be a vacant storefront.

[chris08876]

I can see Dallas following a development pattern similar to Houston. Key advantage is the land size and there are plenty of opportunity for infill, if its multi-family developments that sprawl but have a decent amount of units, or the tower in the park/multi-nodal nature of Houston, only for Dallas.

Is there a ton of demand though for high rise living in Dallas? Considering the prices. I'm all for the towers rising but realistically, we are likely to see the same pattern of development that we see in Houston but in Dallas. That is low-rise multi-families, like the example below. Much cheaper to build, better pricing versus say a 150-200 unit tower.

Also with a booming population, and the price of single family homes rising, apartment developments like the ones below are likely the future.


Credit: https://www.equityapartments.com/dal...rly-apartments

There are a lot of industrial parks in the region and I'd imagine downtown is just a small portion of the total employment capacity, and so... there might not be a need for walkable, dense areas full of towers. While nice to look at, I'm just thinking realistically of how the metro will grow, pattern wise.

Unfortunatly, auto-dominated, and with WFH, will remain so. But consistent and increasing density over a large area, sure.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by mhays

I respect what Uptown has become, similar to Atlanta's Midtown.

I wish buildings didn't all come with huge amounts of parking. It means you get big buildings with big garages, or small buildings with surface parking, but not the countless small-but-urban buildings of a traditional city.

Oak Cliff / Bishop Arts seem to have good things happening but should be peppered with single/double-lot apartment buildings.

Mandatory parking minimums. Dallas is overparked. There's serious talk of eliminating mandatory parking minimums. Austin is particularly bad with signature skyscrapers on parking podiums. I don't want to see Dallas go down that route with bigger buildings. But what buildings have gone up with surface parking in Uptown? Maybe I've overlooked it.

news story about mandatory parking minimums elimination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW4kXdDpvKc

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by Altoic

I think Dallas's development definitely isn't overlooked but the scale of the development is. It seems like every month a new tower is released or breaking ground. The towers also look really high quality from what I've seen. They aren't like the common towers I've seen with low quality podiums and no retail.
A bit off topic, but what's the plan with I-345? Have they decided to demolish it or bury it?

It's gonna be buried. TxDOT says they will not build a boulevard like the urbanists are pushing for. Also, the city doesn't own the freeway, so TxDOT can basically do what they want with the corridor. So, the alternative is a hybrid option. It will be in a trench with city streets running on top. It's being designed that it can be capped over.

Here's the most recent flyover. The capacity isn't being increased, this is all being done because TxDOT doesn't want to speed the money to maintain an aging elevated freeway long term. According to them, they don't build urban freeways anymore.

Presntation: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=V87SYuQ5Ub0
Flyover: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X_Pd00_7iPg

[pj3000]

...

[craigs]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Is Dallas' core infill being overlooked?

No.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by dktshb

That area I guess would be comparable to the Cherry Creek Mall or Cherry Creek neighborhood of Denver. Even though the neighborhood is anchored by a suburban style mall it still seems to have a better urban fabric.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/GRWZFrpYP56wB77G6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/53PiKdxLzKz2nPRT9

Although this is pretty atrocious:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/fLvHsZBzphV74WpT7

Maybe there is a plan for this parking lot that surrounds what appears to be a vacant storefront.

The Cherry Creek area is getting better, but its a pretty good (if smaller) comparison in built form to Uptown Dallas. I used to live nearby and Denver is pretty uniformly pleasant to walk around if you’re able. If you’re disabled, the sidewalks are absolutely horrible quality most places and I am so glad Denver Deserves Sidewalks got on the ballot and passed. There are plenty of single story narrow urban format retail corridors stitching what amounts to a bungalow style single family core with various town center or mixed used style nodes. Cherry Creek, specifically, only has two major area of parking lots and they’re actually placed in an area that does not greatly affect the feeling of walkability when you’re a pedestrian. You simply don’t walk past that specific area because, well, the Cherry Creek area is designed to draw pedestrian traffic from adjacent bungalow style neighborhoods (along with vehicular traffic from city wide). The parking lots are on the other side of the Cherry Creek core from those neighborhoods. And they do have parking garages as well, which are very well hidden on the back of the mall adjacent to a well used and highly maintained greenbelt I used all the time.

A lot is being built down the road on Alameda:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/MwUsLY3NU8dY8Vis9?g_st=ic

And some more minor stuff is being extended down Leetsdale. Unfortunately, the fact that Glendale remains a renter heavy, low turnout, separate enclave municipality where the government is run based on sales tax receipts means their mayor and city council have an interest in maintaining parking lot heavy development will permanently scar the general area and limit connectivity of Cherry Creek with broader southeast Denver. There’s literally nothing Denver can do about that, and so they are unlikely to fully abandon the Cherry Creek nodes as partially designed around the vehicle. It’s a logical choice. Every city needs a high dollar area to juice public sales tax receipts and that in all honesty requires designing it to be easily used by a vehicle. As far as it goes, it’s A- (for me) for pedestrians is still pretty good.

[R1070]

Originally Posted by mhays

I respect what Uptown has become, similar to Atlanta's Midtown.

I wish buildings didn't all come with huge amounts of parking. It means you get big buildings with big garages, or small buildings with surface parking, but not the countless small-but-urban buildings of a traditional city.

Oak Cliff / Bishop Arts seem to have good things happening but should be peppered with single/double-lot apartment buildings.

The city of Dallas is finally ready to have serious discussions about parking minimums and a lot of money is now being directed toward pedestrian infrastructure. The city has also been more bullish on putting a certain percentage if not all parking underground. There is change (for the better) in the air, it seems a bit behind some other cities, but the vision is there. This with the planned extension of the streetcar throughout the core should make some significant changes in the right direction.

[R1070]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

It's gonna be buried. TxDOT says they will not build a boulevard like the urbanists are pushing for. Also, the city doesn't own the freeway, so TxDOT can basically do what they want with the corridor. So, the alternative is a hybrid option. It will be in a trench with city streets running on top. It's being designed that it can be capped over.

Here's the most recent flyover. The capacity isn't being increased, this is all being done because TxDOT doesn't want to speed the money to maintain an aging elevated freeway long term. According to them, they don't build urban freeways anymore.

Presntation: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=V87SYuQ5Ub0
Flyover: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X_Pd00_7iPg

The flyover only shows the highway lanes plan and does not show the caps to cover the roadway. Those are still being worked out with the city. The flyover does show the purple shaded land that will be freed up with this new design which has a lot of opportunity in connection with the caps. This plus the Canyon reconstruction project with it's caps should really help connect DT to Deep Ellum and The Cedars.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by chris08876

I can see Dallas following a development pattern similar to Houston. Key advantage is the land size and there are plenty of opportunity for infill, if its multi-family developments that sprawl but have a decent amount of units, or the tower in the park/multi-nodal nature of Houston, only for Dallas.

Is there a ton of demand though for high rise living in Dallas? Considering the prices. I'm all for the towers rising but realistically, we are likely to see the same pattern of development that we see in Houston but in Dallas. That is low-rise multi-families, like the example below. Much cheaper to build, better pricing versus say a 150-200 unit tower.

Also with a booming population, and the price of single family homes rising, apartment developments like the ones below are likely the future.


Credit: https://www.equityapartments.com/dal...rly-apartments

There are a lot of industrial parks in the region and I'd imagine downtown is just a small portion of the total employment capacity, and so... there might not be a need for walkable, dense areas full of towers. While nice to look at, I'm just thinking realistically of how the metro will grow, pattern wise.

Unfortunatly, auto-dominated, and with WFH, will remain so. But consistent and increasing density over a large area, sure.

I don't know about Dallas, but Houston is full of highrise residential in the various nodes, with even more under construction now. But yes, a lot of the midrise as well all over.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by chris08876

I can see Dallas following a development pattern similar to Houston. Key advantage is the land size and there are plenty of opportunity for infill, if its multi-family developments that sprawl but have a decent amount of units, or the tower in the park/multi-nodal nature of Houston, only for Dallas.

Is there a ton of demand though for high rise living in Dallas? Considering the prices. I'm all for the towers rising but realistically, we are likely to see the same pattern of development that we see in Houston but in Dallas. That is low-rise multi-families, like the example below. Much cheaper to build, better pricing versus say a 150-200 unit tower.

Also with a booming population, and the price of single family homes rising, apartment developments like the ones below are likely the future.


Credit: https://www.equityapartments.com/dal...rly-apartments

There are a lot of industrial parks in the region and I'd imagine downtown is just a small portion of the total employment capacity, and so... there might not be a need for walkable, dense areas full of towers. While nice to look at, I'm just thinking realistically of how the metro will grow, pattern wise.

Unfortunatly, auto-dominated, and with WFH, will remain so. But consistent and increasing density over a large area, sure.

It's already happening. Key Corridors have been rezoned and the city is planning to redo streets to further connect the nodes. Dallas isn't gonna have high-rise everywhere like Houston, there's a little more organization because of the zoning laws...but it will consist of mostly low rise dense development.

If you go to Google maps (preferably Google earth and switch to the historical imagery tab to see the most recent image) and you can see what I am talking about. Downtown Dallas to Uptown via KWP to Cole/McKinney Aves (which is getting a complete streets makeover) through Uptown to Knox-Henderson (Knox St side will get complete streets redo too) to Lower Greenville to Ross Ave through Old East Dallas back to Downtown. The Henderson Ave side still has a lot of empty lots, but that will be turned into urban mixed development, that will serve the thousands of units that have been built in the area in the last couple of years. Here's the renderings and a map on the 2nd page showing Knox St side connecting to Lower Greenville via Henderson Ave (page 2 also shows the 13,000+ units that have been built south of Henderson Ave with more on the way). The Ross Ave rezoning over a decade ago was very controversial when the city forced the auto related businesses to close for urban redevelopment. Because of that rezoning, a lot of new huge 5 over 1s have been built. All of those neighborhoods and nodes listed will be connected and eventually grow into each other as a single urban area.

Dallas plots bike/ped path on roadway between downtown and Greenville Ave

A makeover is in the works on a major thoroughfare out of downtown Dallas including the addition of a new bike path: Specifically, Ross Avenue, in a nearly two-mile span between the Arts District and Lower Greenville.

Plans by the City of Dallas would add a wide, shared-use path for pedestrians and cyclists, starting at IH-345 and extending 1.89 miles to the intersection of Greenville Avenue. There's also the possibility of a new streetcar route down the road that would run along Ross Avenue.

The new shared-use path will replace the existing sidewalk on the north side of Ross Avenue, and would be 10-12 feet wide, nearly double the size of the traditional 6-foot wide sidewalk.

To make it possible within the existing footprint, Ross's current status as a five-lane roadway would be shrunk down to four lanes. For added user protection, a new median will provide a buffer for left turns at cross streets.

Dallas City Council member Jesse Moreno, who represents District 2, helped spearhead the project. He says Ross Avenue is the perfect location for these enhancements.

“I really envision Ross as the Main Street of Dallas, connecting various neighborhoods from Knox Henderson and Greenville to the Arts District,” Moreno said. “We have so many unique communities along the path that will benefit from this."

Ross Avenue has already seen a massive overhaul, both inside the Central Business District and out, from projects such as 2000 Ross Ave. to the Academic, the apartment development that replaced the former DISD headquarters at 3700 Ross Ave., as well as numerous "Soviet blok" apartment buildings that have been built on Ross in the past 10 years.

If the project is approved, construction could begin as early as March 2025 on the shared-use path. Current funding does not provide for the construction of the new streetcar line, but they're planning for it anyway, says city of Dallas project manager Kristopher Johnson.

Also, The Loop Dallas trail is going to be completed by 2027. It's a 50 mile loop trail around Dallas. It will connect a good chunk of Dallas' urban nodes. For Example: the Katy Trail section is being connected to the Design District via the Hi Line Connector trail. New development has popped recently in the Design District as well.

Here's the Trail U/C in the Design District on Google Streetview

It looks nearly done here. It's being built in the median of Hi Line Drive (also included before and after pics of the Design District)

Before (2015):https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7976...6656?entry=ttu

After (2023):https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7977...8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7969...8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7956...8192?entry=ttu

Here's the overlook plaza that will connect the Katy Trail (the busiest section) and the Hi-Line Connector

https://dallascityhall.com/departmen...0submittal.pdf

Here's their Instagram page. It shows the construction progress of The Loop Dallas: https://www.instagram.com/theloopdallas/?hl=en


Also here's the Katy Trail, with a view of Turtle Creek/Oak Lawn high-rises. At 5:39 you can see the parking lot where this new mixed use high-rise development is going up in Knox-Henderson. The development will be connected to the trail. Video is slightly old, so the parking lot is still there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?embeds...&v=0626fs1NSLg

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by R1070

The flyover only shows the highway lanes plan and does not show the caps to cover the roadway. Those are still being worked out with the city. The flyover does show the purple shaded land that will be freed up with this new design which has a lot of opportunity in connection with the caps. This plus the Canyon reconstruction project with it's caps should really help connect DT to Deep Ellum and The Cedars.

Yes, you are correct.

With the WNBA's Dallas Wings being added to the convention center redevelopment, it will be an additional draw to the area. Next to it is the The Black Academy of Arts and Letters (performing and visual arts venue). It’s located in the original theater portion of the complex, which is getting completely renovated as well. So, both venues (or anchor facilities) will now have permanent tenants. Which is nice! Also, the planned entertainment district between the Memorial Auditorium complex and the new convention center sounds a lot more promising and doable. Since both are on each end, they can both drive traffic into the district.

Here's the whole project animation video. It includes the deck park, proposed private sector development projects, proposed high-speed rail station, the DART light rail, planned deck park, and planned streetcar expansion. The Convention Center suppose to be done by 2029.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?embeds...&v=50m1QieErAc

[SLO]

It really is pretty remarkable amount of infill. Dallas hasn't gotten any new very tall buildings but a ton of mid rise looks great.

[IcedCowboyCoffee]

Took this photo over the weekend. From this perspective a lot of the growth is beginning to overlap/hide other new growth.

[Wigs]

Dallas, Houston, Sunbelt cities were continuously mocked on SSP when I joined 20 years ago.

I think we should applaud the strides that cities/Metros like Dallas (among others) are making. Infilling the core city and its hip/trendy areas.

Hopefully they get rid of parking minimums and reduce lot sizes and encourage a variety of housing (semis, triplex, 4-plex, towns /stacked townhouses, in addition to low-mid -high-rises) to be built.

Keep up the progress DFW

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by SLO

It really is pretty remarkable amount of infill. Dallas hasn't gotten any new very tall buildings but a ton of mid rise looks great.

In a way, it may be a template for how future U.S. cities will grow and look.

More multi-nodal in nature, with grids of density followed by lower density, with concentration of density around "X" node. Where "X" is several nodes within a city limit but not necessarily centralized.

As crappy as it may sound, I think it might be the future. In other words, the idea of having a central DT with spikes in density, and assuming that all the density will be around that particular node might not be the case as cities develop over time. Instead, distributed over a large distance.

I sort of see a situation like what we see in Toronto, or even Houston, as a model for the U.S. metros and their future development look and patterns.

The suburbs being the key driver of this. Midrise fashion I suppose, although if the need is there, we really should be building high rises out there. High rises away from the zones where land prices are through the roof.

If we sprawl and single family our way in the future, it just will not keep up with projected demand, it won't. We need midrises.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by chris08876

In a way, it may be a template for how future U.S. cities will grow and look.

More multi-nodal in nature, with grids of density followed by lower density, with concentration of density around "X" node. Where "X" is several nodes within a city limit but not necessarily centralized.

As crappy as it may sound, I think it might be the future. In other words, the idea of having a central DT with spikes in density, and assuming that all the density will be around that particular node might not be the case as cities develop over time. Instead, distributed over a large distance.

I sort of see a situation like what we see in Toronto, or even Houston, as a model for the U.S. metros and their future development look and patterns.

The suburbs being the key driver of this. Midrise fashion I suppose, although if the need is there, we really should be building high rises out there. High rises away from the zones where land prices are through the roof.

If we sprawl and single family our way in the future, it just will not keep up with projected demand, it won't. We need midrises.

Or is the DC area the model? Decades ago when the Metro opened, N Virginia and portions of Maryland concentrated much dense development around the metro stops like Ballston, Rosslyn and Bethesda. Now many of those metro stops have multiple condos/apartments/restaurants/offices right near the stops and with the extension to Tysons, the developers are busy doing the same. I'm guessing Dallas may be able to implement such a plan better given its rail network to some of inner suburbs like Richardson?

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by DCReid

Or is the DC area the model? Decades ago when the Metro opened, N Virginia and portions of Maryland concentrated much dense development around the metro stops like Ballston, Rosslyn and Bethesda. Now many of those metro stops have multiple condos/apartments/restaurants/offices right near the stops and with the extension to Tysons, the developers are busy doing the same. I'm guessing Dallas may be able to implement such a plan better given its rail network to some of inner suburbs like Richardson?

I suppose DC could be a template for the more mature regions of the U.S.. I should of thought about DC... good point! Considering the rail networks already in place, could be a reality, for say the rest of the Bos-Wash corridor. We sort of, but not on a large scale, are seeing this in NJ, around the various rail nodes. Just needs to kick into high gear. I mean the frame work is there, now its just time for those smaller towns to kick it into high gear.

In some respect, if some of those Texas metros went big on the whole rail corridor, there is a ton of potential. Sort of easier to build there I suppose as topography is not such a hinderance, as it tends to be with the whole BosWash corridor.

I know master planned cities tends to be a taboo, but if the population of the whole Texas Triangle continues to skyrocket... I mean... it would be nice to really start envisioning future nodes of the future. Interesting thought experiment.

[DFW]

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburne...-architecture/