Provincial Economies III

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It's sad that prime still don't understand why the attacks on Catherine McKenna were misogynistic.

Pretty sure everyone agrees the attacks on McKenna were misogynistic. Myself included. Completely unprofessional. But so is posting pictures of Danielle Smith commenting on the “strategic placement” of the wheels… referring to her god damn breasts. Stop talking or thinking of her breasts, or does the rule only hold true for Con supporters. That’s why I said, prettty sure it’d be a shit storm blazing here if it was a supporter of the Cons that posted a similar pic of Notley or McKenna.

Sorry, just to be clear, I said “Climate Barb…” just reminding of the shit storm that started because of that statement simply because she is a women.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Pretty sure everyone agrees the attacks on McKenna were misogynistic. Myself included. Completely unprofessional. But so is posting pictures of Danielle Smith commenting on the “strategic placement” of the wheels… referring to her god damn breasts. Stop talking or thinking of her breasts, or does the rule only hold true for Con supporters. That’s why I said, prettty sure it’d be a shit storm blazing here if it was a supporter of the Cons that posted a similar pic of Notley or McKenna.

Sorry, just to be clear, I said “Climate Barb…” just reminding of the shit storm that started because of that statement simply because she is a women.

I think most people on here (left, right or center leaning), have little to say about that photo. All I can say, is I am surprised. These political parties have teams that sit around boardroom tables reviewing such things. Odd that was approved.

That said, that photo does not change my impression of where she is.

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Pretty sure everyone agrees the attacks on McKenna were misogynistic. Myself included. Completely unprofessional. But so is posting pictures of Danielle Smith commenting on the “strategic placement” of the wheels… referring to her god damn breasts.

Someone in one of the Edmonton threads referred to her as Premier Bustits. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time because I remembered where that came from; it was funny then and it's funny now.

Would people get all bent out of shape if somehow JTs package (or any other male political figure for that matter) was enhanced (unintentionally) somehow in an add? Declaring sexism against men? I doubt it as people would be too busy busting a gut on the floor.

People really need to lighten up and stop throwing around the racist/sexist cards willy-nilly simply because they are incredibly thin-skinned and constantly offended.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Eeeek! Couldn’t imagine the shit firestorm that would be blazing around here if that picture was picture was of Climate Barb…, errr Catherine McKenna….

Would be funnier if it was a Ford bus. (or Trudeau, for that matter)

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Pretty sure everyone agrees the attacks on McKenna were misogynistic. Myself included. Completely unprofessional. But so is posting pictures of Danielle Smith commenting on the “strategic placement” of the wheels… referring to her god damn breasts. Stop talking or thinking of her breasts, or does the rule only hold true for Con supporters. That’s why I said, prettty sure it’d be a shit storm blazing here if it was a supporter of the Cons that posted a similar pic of Notley or McKenna.

Sorry, just to be clear, I said “Climate Barb…” just reminding of the shit storm that started because of that statement simply because she is a women.

Fair point. I missed that you were drawing a parallel. And I totally agree. It's ridiculous to attack a politician based on their gender.

[WarrenC12]

Looks like Tucker Carlson went from Alberta to Moscow. Can't make this shit up.

https://twitter.com/marcbennetts1/st...64448513647101

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Looks like Tucker Carlson went from Alberta to Moscow. Can't make this shit up.

https://twitter.com/marcbennetts1/st...64448513647101

Too bad he can’t be jailed for breaking some sanction. It’s disgusting that the Republicans have sunk so low they’ve become Putin’s little bitches.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Too bad he can’t be jailed for breaking some sanction. It’s disgusting that the Republicans have sunk so low they’ve become Putin’s little bitches.

It was inevitable once they decided winning was more important than principles. We should be careful to not allow that here with our political parties.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It was inevitable once they decided winning was more important than principles. We should be careful to not allow that here with our political parties.

I thought that winning was a key Liberal trait. It's one of their greatest strengths as a party. Lots of wiggle room in the "centre".

[casper]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Too bad he can’t be jailed for breaking some sanction. It’s disgusting that the Republicans have sunk so low they’ve become Putin’s little bitches.

I don't believe the US has gone as far with Russia as it once did with Cuba. Is it not still legal for Americans to travel to Russia?

If there were limits, he likely would claim he is a journalist traveling to do a story. I may think he is a poor journalist, but a journalist none the less.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I thought that winning was a key Liberal trait. It's one of their greatest strengths as a party. Lots of wiggle room in the "centre".

The Libs aren't winning by resorting to conspiracy theories. Nor does Justin Trudeau have anywhere the cult of personality that Orange Julius does south of the border.

I do think we should be weary of the LPC carrying water for China, and increasingly the CPC looks way too comfortable with Putin affiliates.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I generally agree with this. Quebec having a higher per capita GDP than Ontario is extremely unlikely. It can still have a comparable or even better standing of living due to other factors though. It's arguably pretty close to that already, I'd say.

Not only do I think this is possible, I actually think it's quite likely that Québec will surpass Ontario in GDP per capita.

Québec has a major advantage which most of the world lacks: cheap, clean power. Combine this with substantial resource extraction, access to global and the American markets, and a highly skilled workforce and you have a combination that can't be found anywhere else in the world

Ontario has limited clean energy, an aversion to all kinds of development, an economy over-reliant on the housing ponzi and its resource base is much less inaccessible and further away from its industrial base.

I honestly would bet on Québec having one of the strongest economies in Canada in 20-30 years. Can Québéc politicians screw it all up with bad policy? Peut être. But it's still more of a winning hand than most of the provinces in this country.

[Acajack]

If indeed that were to emerge, it would kinda be one of those "unique advantages" deftly played that New Brisavoine was referring to.

[MolsonExport]

ahh yes, the "winning conditions" that will encourage the nationalists to once again "roll the dice". It would be an interesting situation.

I am also bullish on Quebec GDP/capita matching or perhaps surpassing that of Ontario's in the decades to come. Quebec's deindustrialization happened earlier, and was even more wrenching than that which occurred in Ontario. It has taken 40 years, but Quebec has now reconfigured its economy to make up for what was lost (an awful lot) during the 70s-90s.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If indeed that were to emerge, it would kinda be one of those "unique advantages" deftly played that New Brisavoine was referring to.

It's honestly not that hard to play. And we see the Québec government doing this right now with things like me battery plants. But also things like pension plan investment domestically.

Fundamentally, Ontario is so dependent on the housing ponzi, both domestically and nationally, that it is really going to struggle to rebuild and sustain an industrial economy. For all kinds of different reasons, Québec never went down the same path. It paid for not doing so with worse economics. But not it's benefiting from not doing so.

The view that language is the sole determinant of economic success is ridiculous. It might speak to the eventual absolute size, because of addressable size of the market. But a bigger economy doesn't necessarily mean a higher quality of life.

[Acajack]

Bluster and righteous indignation aside, it's an interesting question and one that can apply to Quebec or any other place, really.

Does economic prosperity (greater than the average of the larger entity you're a part) favour or discourage sentiment for independence?

Because on the one hand you can argue that if Quebec (or anyone else) is doing extremely well within a country, why risk that with independence?

On the other hand, if you're not doing well, what does it do for independence?

Are people going to want independence because they're frustrated by their unfavourable situation?

Or will they be against independence because they already feel fragile and think things could get worse, and are also insecure about their in-group's collective prospects and abilities?

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The view that language is the sole determinant of economic success is ridiculous. It might speak to the eventual absolute size, because of addressable size of the market. But a bigger economy doesn't necessarily mean a higher quality of life.

Agreed. Flanders (Belgium) is much mightier than Wallonia (Belgium) despite the former speaking a marginal dialect (Flemish) of a tongue (Dutch) that is only spoken to any wide extent in the Netherlands (and maybe among a few living in current/former colonies). Things were reversed when my grandfather was growing up in Belgium (period before WW1), where, despite being Flemish, he and his brothers/sisters were admonished to speak French at home as well as much as possible outside the home, by their (my) Flemish/German parents (great grandparents), as it was seen as the language of the future and economic prosperity.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Bluster and righteous indignation aside, it's an interesting question and one that can apply to Quebec or any other place, really.

Does economic prosperity (greater than the average of the larger entity you're a part) favour or discourage sentiment for independence?

Because on the one hand you can argue that if Quebec (or anyone else) is doing extremely well within a country, why risk that with independence?

On the other hand, if you're not doing well, what does it do for independence?

Are people going to want independence because they're frustrated by their unfavourable situation?

Or will they be against independence because they already feel fragile and think things could get worse, and are also insecure about their in-group's collective prospects and abilities?

Indeed.



If I go, there will be trouble
And if I stay, it will be double
So come on and let me know
Should I stay, or should I go?

[Acajack]

I was honestly hoping for a more fulsome response.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Bluster and righteous indignation aside, it's an interesting question and one that can apply to Quebec or any other place, really.

Does economic prosperity (greater than the average of the larger entity you're a part) favour or discourage sentiment for independence?

Because on the one hand you can argue that if Quebec (or anyone else) is doing extremely well within a country, why risk that with independence?

On the other hand, if you're not doing well, what does it do for independence?

Are people going to want independence because they're frustrated by their unfavourable situation?

Or will they be against independence because they already feel fragile and think things could get worse, and are also insecure about their in-group's collective prospects and abilities?

I am mostly going to leave the independence discussion to the other thread and to the benevolent tutelage of the colonials by the Parisien.

But on the economics, I will say that past is not going to be a guide to the future. The last few referendums happened when Quebec was more prosperous but also far less integrated into the global economy. Today's deindustrialization is much more underpinned by global supply chains but also highly dependent on access the American market. And I'm not so sure that populist America would be interested in the same deals with a smaller Québec. And even less so if a lot of ex-Canada was absorbed into the US.

For example, a huge part of Quebec's aerospace and defence sector benefits from access to the US because of ITARs exemptions and qualifications under various bilateral or Five Eyes cooperation. Most of that would almost guaranteedly disappear with independence. Scotland is having the same discussion about naval shipbuilding over there. Si cela en vaut la peine peut être décidée seulement par les gens de Québec.