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  #21  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2019, 11:34 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Yes, this idea won't fly. Desparate attempt by the Tampa owner to get public
funding for a stadium. After the FLorida Marlins debacle it won't happen.

Last edited by blueandgoldguy; Jun 21, 2019 at 11:37 PM.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2019, 12:06 AM
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Last time I checked, the Rays were a profitable franchise. And nobody goes to the games...nobody!

Not sure about this two city business but it seems there is a new paradigm emerging in the business of professional sport. Time to experiment, I guess.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
Last time I checked, the Rays were a profitable franchise. And nobody goes to the games...nobody!

Not sure about this two city business but it seems there is a new paradigm emerging in the business of professional sport. Time to experiment, I guess.
As a fan though, how could you really get emotionally invested in a team that spends half its time playing out of another city? Are people in Tampa going to buy tickets to watch a team only to have it bugger off once the pennant race starts heating up? Are Montrealers going to be excited to have a baseball team back even if they're a group of part timers called the Tampa Bay Rays instead of the Montreal Expos?

wave46 and blueandgoldguy nailed it, it's nothing more than a desperation tactic by Rays ownership.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2019, 1:15 PM
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I'm surprised MLB green lit this. It's just such a bizarre concept playing a full half of a season in a second city. Perhaps you could play 20 games or so in a second city, but come on, what self respecting season's ticket holder would put up with this shit.

What would happen if the Rays made the playoffs? Since they played the second half of the season in Montreal, does this mean the playoffs are held in Montreal too? If so, doesn't this mean that the team is really a Montreal team? Wouldn't the Tampa Bay fans feel jilted? This is just so bizarre........

MLB should just get off the pot and bring back the Expos and be done with it.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2019, 1:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I'm surprised MLB green lit this. It's just such a bizarre concept playing a full half of a season in a second city. Perhaps you could play 20 games or so in a second city, but come on, what self respecting season's ticket holder would put up with this shit.
Well, the only thing they've green lit is exploring the idea.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2019, 2:20 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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This is a really strange story, especially since the Rays are locked into this iron-clad agreement to use Tropicana Field through to 2027 and the mayor of St. Petersburg has indicated that he won't even entertain the idea.

The Rays' stadium situation is explained well at this link: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmac.../#1f33f5325a81

It almost seems like this was created to drum up media attention to maybe force the Rays or the city to do something.

What continues to amaze me is that the Rays have a very exciting young team who is definitely looking like a playoff contender, yet their fanbase (by their attendance) seem mostly uninterested. They don't seem to appreciate what they have, apparently.

Here's an article which also suggests that it's a tactic to put pressure on those involved:
https://www.draysbay.com/2019/6/21/1...l-mlb-reaction

Quote:
Is there something else going on here?

Overall, without further details, this “proposal” strikes us as less a real plan and more a fascinating way to increase the heat on Tampa Bay leadership by holding the hopes and dreams of Montreal ransom. That means pressuring Rick Kriseman, whose leverage recedes with each passing year, to let the team look around the region (although they have not asked for permission to do so — one could consider all of this a preemptive strike).

This proposal also means pressuring Hillsborough and Tampa leadership to cough up some financial commitments and pressuring business leaders on both sides of the Bay to up their commitments too (perhaps through a 1% tax increase that was voted for and enacted in Hillsborough County two months ago). And not just the political leaders, but the business leaders as well.

Additionally, and most curious of all, is that it’s not clear why the Rays would be engaged in such a dramatic proposal so quickly, particularly when one 10-game home stand (which seems to be allowed by the MOU signed in 2016), or a more limited proposed share of games (like when the Expos played 22 games in San Juan in the 2003-04 seasons) could ring the warning bells just the same.

A dramatic proposal with so many questions to be answered and no clarity until a press conference on Tuesday means a week of speculation and damaging headlines in the Tampa Bay Times, all of which will assume this is just a new take on an old classic: the threat of relocation.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2019, 2:35 PM
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That would be quite the sloppy seconds deal for Tampa
If it happens.

Not sure how it would boost fan interest and attendance.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2019, 2:57 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Not sure how it would boost fan interest and attendance.
Especially given that having a competitive, exciting team battling for the lead of the AL east (arguably the toughest division in the MLB), has not been enough to draw fans into the game. They are the second-lowest attended team in the league only exceeded (in lack of attendance) by the Marlins.

Maybe Florida should not have more than one team? There does not seem to be much interest in baseball there...
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  #29  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2019, 6:13 PM
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The Rays dome is so terrible. Even watching a game their on TV is depressing.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2019, 9:13 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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The Rays dome is so terrible. Even watching a game their on TV is depressing.
Agreed. They even have a rule in place for when the ball hits the catwalk above, since it happens so often...
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  #31  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2019, 10:29 PM
Djeffery Djeffery is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post

What continues to amaze me is that the Rays have a very exciting young team who is definitely looking like a playoff contender, yet their fanbase (by their attendance) seem mostly uninterested. They don't seem to appreciate what they have, apparently.
.

The Rays made the World Series in 2008, and were 26th out of 30 in attendance. That carried over to 23rd out of 30 the following year. (they drew 15 people less per game than the sub-.500 Blue jays in 2009 lol). They peaked at 22nd in 2010, and then have been 29th or mostly 30th since, and have many of those years, been either contenders or at least competitive. Even most of the years before that run, they were 29th or 30th, going back to when Montreal was still in the league and they occupied the 30th spot most of their last several years.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2019, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Djeffery View Post
.

The Rays made the World Series in 2008, and were 26th out of 30 in attendance. That carried over to 23rd out of 30 the following year. (they drew 15 people less per game than the sub-.500 Blue jays in 2009 lol). They peaked at 22nd in 2010, and then have been 29th or mostly 30th since, and have many of those years, been either contenders or at least competitive. Even most of the years before that run, they were 29th or 30th, going back to when Montreal was still in the league and they occupied the 30th spot most of their last several years.
Long story short: it's not a great market for the MLB. I think there are a couple of markets in the US that are interesting for MLB to explore (Charlotte, Nashville, and i'd love to see a place like Louisville given a shot) along with the Montreal/Vancouver talk. Florida in general is a weak sports market for most sports. Loads of people - not all of them into sports.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2019, 10:41 PM
Trevor3 Trevor3 is offline
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The two city idea won't fly, but it is a testament to the fact that MLB does see Montreal as a viable market for a team to relocate to.

It's become clear that governments in Florida aren't willing to partner on a new stadium for the Rays and MLB has become frustrated with lack of progress. This is really just a tactic to try and get a commitment for a new stadium. Usually owners get permission to explore relocation opportunities when the stadium negotiations falter - Pittsburgh did it in the NHL, Peter Pocklington had a midnight move to Houston planned for the Oilers, the Seattle Supersonics had permission to explore relocation after failing to come up with a deal to renovate KeyArena and ended up being sold to a group from Oklahoma City.

There is 0% chance Florida/Tampa would chip in on a $600 million open-air stadium to host 40-60 games per year, and 0% chance that Montreal would spend $900 million for a domed stadium to replace the Big-O for 40-60 games per year.

The way this is being done looks like MLB wants to play Montreal and Tampa against each other to see who ponies up for a stadium. If Montreal can put together the framework for a stadium and an actual plan, timeline, and financing to build, I think the Rays will end up in Montreal full-time. But if Tampa takes this as a wake-up call and decides to build, they'll keep the team.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2019, 1:29 AM
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The Rays will never get a new stadium - ever! The Miami taxpayer shelled out a massive amount of dough for that empty monstrosity and Tampa will not make the same mistake.

Outside of Spring Training, baseball doesn't work in Florida. Full stop.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2019, 4:23 PM
elly63 elly63 is offline
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Rays, MLB begin transition to Montreal
Steve Phillips tsn.ca June 22 2019

On Thursday afternoon, ESPN’s Jeff Passan reported a story from the MLB owners’ meetings that the Tampa Bay Rays have been given approval from commissioner Rob Manfred to explore a plan that would have their team play the first part of their season in Tampa and the rest of the year in Montreal.

The Rays have been unable to find the pathway to a new stadium in the St. Petersburg/Tampa area. Their current lease at Tropicana Field runs through 2027.

The idea behind this plan is that splitting the Rays season between these two locations will allow the team to enjoy the best weather conditions in Tampa and Montreal without needing a domed stadium in either city. For the plan to work though, new stadiums would have to be built in both locations. That seems to be less of a problem in Montreal than in Tampa.

Last month, a group in Montreal led by Stephen Bronfman (son of original Expos owner Charles Bronfman) and businessman Mitch Garber reached an agreement with a developer on a site to potentially build a new stadium for a possible MLB team.

Of course, there are so many logistical and practical questions that would have to be answered. What would the team be called? Which city would be reflected on the front of the home jerseys? How would you get free agents to join your team knowing their families will have to relocate during the season? Where would the team’s playoff games be played? Would the administrative staff in Tampa relocate or would there be a completely different staff in Montreal?

The most obvious hurdle: How does a city rationalize being 100 per cent in on a new stadium when the Rays and MLB are only 50 per cent in on their side? If the Rays can’t get a stadium built to house their team for a full season, why would a municipality in Florida build a stadium for a half-season?

Think about it this way: If this is such a good idea, why isn’t anybody else doing it? As a long-term plan, it’s flawed. It’s not possible to build two fully committed fan bases for the same team in two cities. This structure will create two half-committed fan bases, which doesn’t add up to one in this case. It adds up to something less. So, there must be some other motivation behind it.

Here’s what I really believe is going on: The Rays and MLB realize they can’t get a new stadium in the Tampa area, so they’re starting the transition. They will eventually play half the games in Tampa and half in Montreal. Bronfman’s group will buy a minority ownership stake in the club and oversee the construction of a new stadium in Montreal. The Rays will continue to push for a new facility in Tampa to match what Montreal is creating. There won’t be a commitment for a new stadium in Florida by the time the lease runs out in 2027, at which time the club will make an outright move to Montreal.

This plan ensures that the Rays won’t have to wait until 2027 to decide to relocate and then wait for the construction of a new facility. They will have a home waiting for them and a fan base that is already connected to the team. It’s brilliant.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2019, 12:56 PM
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Washington Nationals wore Expos uniforms Saturday.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2019, 8:11 PM
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Throwback Expos day at D.C. baseball game divides Montrealers — and Americans
The Canadian Press TSN.ca July 6 2019

MONTREAL — An Expos throwback day at the Washington Nationals' ballpark has divided Montrealers, with some cheering the vintage uniforms donned by players Saturday afternoon as an overdue homage and others chastising the move as an "insult" to their baseball forebears.

The Nationals — created after the Expos moved to Washington in 2005 — announced this week they would tout the powder blue away jerseys and pants along with the vintage caps sported by Montreal players in their inaugural season 50 years ago.

The gimmick fits into a night of retro theatrics at Nationals Stadium that includes 1960s pop tunes, a stylized "M" on the scoreboard, a ceremonial first pitch thrown by newly inducted Expos Hall-of-Famer Vladimir Guerrero Sr. — and, of course, some poutine and smoked meat among the concessions.

While the stadium features a "ring of honour" that includes Expos legends like Gary Carter and Tim Raines, the Nationals' northern roots go largely unacknowledged in D.C., according to observers.

"It's very pick-and-choosy and it's super weird," said Montreal-based journalist and talk radio host Dave Kaufman.

Tributes to all-stars such as Tim Wallach remain virtually absent from the park, he said. "They left it so that Montrealers, at least in my opinion, still have no love for this team."

But Kaufman isn't among the disgruntled.

"I think it's a nod to the history of the franchise," he said. "I look at this as an advertisement for the city of Montreal that's being done in the capital of the United States."

The debate comes amid rising emotions and renewed hopes for an Expos reincarnation in Quebec's biggest city. "It's these kind of side glances and small smiles," Kaufman said.

Stephen Bronfman — son of former Expos owner Charles Bronfman — has long pushed for a hometown revival. Late last month he praised a "groundbreaking" plan for the Tampa Bay Rays to split games between Montreal and Florida.

Sylvain Tremblay, who co-leads the Encore Baseball Montreal social media group, said he's "looking forward instead of thinking about past problems" — but he can't speak for his city.

"Basically they stole our team, and so on. That's the way some people think in Montreal," said Tremblay, whose group has more than 6,200 followers on Facebook and Twitter. "For them, it's an insult."

"The Washington Nationals wearing my Montreal Expos old uniform feels like a slap to the face," complained one Twitter user who says he lives in an off-island suburb.

Quebeckers aren't the only ones turned off by the marketing stunt.

Washington Times columnist Thom Loverro called it a "cheap, lazy, thoughtless promotion," indicating that any claim to a connection between the two teams seems as distasteful as American poutine.

To have Guerrero tossing the opening pitch is to "celebrate a corpse," he suggested, and posited that D.C. should look to its own past, which includes the Washington Senators who took off for Texas in the early 1970s.

Commenters tended to agree, with one asking rhetorically: "why do we give a rats arse about Montreal?" Another local tweeted that the throwback jersey "manages to disrespect both Expos fans and fans of both Senators teams" (there were two iterations).

Nonetheless, fans cheered late Saturday afternoon as Canada's deputy ambassador to the U.S., Kirsten Hillman, introduced the Nationals after the loudspeakers blared out, "Mesdames et messieurs, ladies and gentlemen, your Expos." Between plays the scoreboard piped out scenes of Expos lore, like Gary Carter celebrating a postseason victory in 1981, the only year the team reached the playoffs.

The shared bond of grief may offer a bridge between the two cities — the last two in Major League Baseball to see teams decamp for other climes.

"They know what kind of pain we have, because they had it in '71," Tremblay said. "What can you do? You don't take care of your girlfriend — now she's gone."

But hope is back in the air in Montreal, mingling with the heady musk of nostalgia.

"The Expos were my youth. They were one of the great joys of my life," Kaufman said. "I have not held that same passion about a sports team since they left.

"It didn't matter that they never won a World Series. It didn't matter that they were overall under .500 for my baseball-watching career," he said.

"They were my team and I loved them and I miss them so much."
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  #38  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2019, 2:36 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
Rays, MLB begin transition to Montreal
Steve Phillips tsn.ca June 22 2019

On Thursday afternoon, ESPN’s Jeff Passan reported a story from the MLB owners’ meetings that the Tampa Bay Rays have been given approval from commissioner Rob Manfred to explore a plan that would have their team play the first part of their season in Tampa and the rest of the year in Montreal.

The Rays have been unable to find the pathway to a new stadium in the St. Petersburg/Tampa area. Their current lease at Tropicana Field runs through 2027.

The idea behind this plan is that splitting the Rays season between these two locations will allow the team to enjoy the best weather conditions in Tampa and Montreal without needing a domed stadium in either city. For the plan to work though, new stadiums would have to be built in both locations. That seems to be less of a problem in Montreal than in Tampa.

Last month, a group in Montreal led by Stephen Bronfman (son of original Expos owner Charles Bronfman) and businessman Mitch Garber reached an agreement with a developer on a site to potentially build a new stadium for a possible MLB team.

Of course, there are so many logistical and practical questions that would have to be answered. What would the team be called? Which city would be reflected on the front of the home jerseys? How would you get free agents to join your team knowing their families will have to relocate during the season? Where would the team’s playoff games be played? Would the administrative staff in Tampa relocate or would there be a completely different staff in Montreal?

The most obvious hurdle: How does a city rationalize being 100 per cent in on a new stadium when the Rays and MLB are only 50 per cent in on their side? If the Rays can’t get a stadium built to house their team for a full season, why would a municipality in Florida build a stadium for a half-season?

Think about it this way: If this is such a good idea, why isn’t anybody else doing it? As a long-term plan, it’s flawed. It’s not possible to build two fully committed fan bases for the same team in two cities. This structure will create two half-committed fan bases, which doesn’t add up to one in this case. It adds up to something less. So, there must be some other motivation behind it.

Here’s what I really believe is going on: The Rays and MLB realize they can’t get a new stadium in the Tampa area, so they’re starting the transition. They will eventually play half the games in Tampa and half in Montreal. Bronfman’s group will buy a minority ownership stake in the club and oversee the construction of a new stadium in Montreal. The Rays will continue to push for a new facility in Tampa to match what Montreal is creating. There won’t be a commitment for a new stadium in Florida by the time the lease runs out in 2027, at which time the club will make an outright move to Montreal.

This plan ensures that the Rays won’t have to wait until 2027 to decide to relocate and then wait for the construction of a new facility. They will have a home waiting for them and a fan base that is already connected to the team. It’s brilliant.
Very interesting. Thanks for posting. I hope this will work out for Montreal.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2019, 2:37 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Washington Nationals wore Expos uniforms Saturday.
I saw it on the highlights. Thought it was cool to see the Expos uniforms in service again, and happy that the team still recognizes its roots, despite all of the circumstances which led to the move.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2019, 2:38 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Very interesting. Thanks for posting. I hope this will work out for Montreal.
But who will be paying for that new stadium in Montreal whose construction Bronfman's group will be "overseeing"? The article say Bronfman will "oversee" construction, not finance it.
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