California High Speed Rail Thread

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I really wish I'd never hear the term "equity" again, at least in context of transit planning, urban planning and public policy. It's just dumb. It's 99.9% pork-barrel, budget-busting crap.

You seem too intelligent to actually believe what you just wrote here.

[twinpeaks]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I really wish I'd never hear the term "equity" again, at least in context of transit planning, urban planning and public policy. It's just dumb. It's 99.9% pork-barrel, budget-busting crap.

Equity is a way to make sure infrastructure is built to benefit people living in the community. A lot times, they didn't have a voice and freeway were built through existing urban neighborhoods to provide a fast way for the rich and suburbanites to drive through. It's rare for a freeway to get built through a rich established neighborhoods.

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by edale

This is the same exact argument I've made in the past for CAHSR using the 5 freeway's ROW. But apparently serving every podunk town in the Central Valley is more important than building a project in an economical and timely manner. The vast majority of work done on the CAHSR project so far has been building bridges and overpasses, rerouting and rebuilding roads, etc. Imagine if we only had to do a fraction of that work by using the 5's ROW? Not to mention much cheaper and easier land acquisition and probably fewer lawsuits, too. But no, we're building high speed rail stations literally in the middle of farms (this is the location of the planned Madera HSR station...kid you not...) in the name of *equity* for the central valley

That's what voters chose and the CV has 6.5 million people, which would make it top 20 in US population if it was a state. That example of the Madera station is basically how it would be on I-5 lol, but further away from population centers of the CV.
The lawsuits would have happened anyway because they were intended to derail the project.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by twinpeaks

Equity is a way to make sure infrastructure is built to benefit people living in the community. A lot times, they didn't have a voice and freeway were built through existing urban neighborhoods to provide a fast way for the rich and suburbanites to drive through. It's rare for a freeway to get built through a rich established neighborhoods.

Great point. Sometimes the lack of equity can be as, if not more, damaging. Something that I think we can all agree we are still trying to recover from. Yes, we are talking about you 980 and 101/280.

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Great point. Sometimes the lack of equity can be as, if not more, damaging. Something that I think we can all agree we are still trying to recover from. Yes, we are talking about you 980 and 101/280.

Stockton just did that recently with the 4 extension too.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by TWAK

Stockton just did that recently with the 4 extension too.

Stockton actually has a pretty decent downtown with some cool historic buildings. It's unfortunate there's a freeway splitting it now. Hopefully they can revitalize it.

https://goo.gl/maps/HCqAkmxneGdvfLEh9
https://goo.gl/maps/z33dwoB6rWR8N5HEA
https://goo.gl/maps/rbapKmHC54jqgwqJA
https://goo.gl/maps/1rfnkwXJe5Di4RkVA
https://goo.gl/maps/AibD4ny77tkN1M45A
https://goo.gl/maps/vutgpcGskXRuCJN47
https://goo.gl/maps/G3KNQcnrqCU7SvKe9

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by edale

The Green Line runs along the median of the 105. And a fair amount of BART runs along freeway medians in the Bay Area, so there's a good amount of precedent in the state for this approach. Perhaps high speed rail has different considerations though.

I'm well aware of the Green Line (now C Line) on the 105 (the rail line was actually included in the final design of the 105 Freeway, as a concession to the communities that the freeway tore through)... Metrolink also goes down the middle of part of the 10 Freeway in the SGV:

SGV Tribune

And yeah, I've ridden BART from Walnut Creek to SF, and part of the line goes down the middle of CA-24.

And part of the Gold Line (now A Line) goes down the median of the 210 Freeway... and that's what brought up my concern. It hasn't happened in a while (knock on wood), but there have been several incidents of big rig trucks crashing onto the A Line tracks on the 210 Freeway.


Metro


LA Times


Pasadena Star News

So far, there haven't been any truck into train crashes and no fatalities, but these have caused long delays on the Gold Line (clearing the wreck, inspecting the tracks, having to replace the overhead wires). There are plans to strenghthen and raise the barriers, but they haven't started construction yet. I don't know what it is about that stretch of the 210; as far as I know, there has been no such vehicle-onto-track incidents on the Green/C Line.

I haven't driven to Vegas in many years, but I remember a lot of big rig trucks going up/down the 15. I'm hoping they build really strong/high barriers for the high speed train.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by TWAK

That's what voters chose and the CV has 6.5 million people, which would make it top 20 in US population if it was a state. That example of the Madera station is basically how it would be on I-5 lol, but further away from population centers of the CV.
The lawsuits would have happened anyway because they were intended to derail the project.

And the Central Valley only keeps on growing.

Over the years I've read people on these boards make comments to the effect of Fresno and Bakersfield (or was it Fresno and Stockton?) being California's rust belt. I don't know why that would be, because all three of those cities since their incorporation have kept growing in population with each census. They have yet to shrink in population, census-wise. According to the 2020 Census, Fresno proper now has 542,107 people and is the 5th largest city in CA (over a million people in its metro area), and Bakersfield proper has 403,455 people and is the 9th largest city in CA. I think they deserve convenient access to HSR.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

And the Central Valley only keeps on growing.

Over the years I've read people on these boards make comments to the effect of Fresno and Bakersfield (or was it Fresno and Stockton?) being California's rust belt. I don't know why that would be, because all three of those cities since their incorporation have kept growing in population with each census. They have yet to shrink in population, census-wise. According to the 2020 Census, Fresno proper now has 542,107 people and is the 5th largest city in CA (over a million people in its metro area), and Bakersfield proper has 403,455 people and is the 9th largest city in CA. I think they deserve convenient access to HSR.

Indeed and it is the coastal parts of California that are either stagnant or losing population because of high housing costs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/n...in%20the%20U.S.

[Qubert]

My Thoughts: I think the first two sections they should have built were #1 the approach from LA Union Station, through Grapevine, then onto Bakersfield, then #2 going down from San Jose thru Gilroy, then tunneling roughly paralell to CA 152 thru the mountains then connecting to the existing San Jouanqin tracks. The existing San Juaquin ROW would be electrified. This would allow essentially two different services:

One would take advantage of the existing San Juaquin and allow local trains to run from SF/SJ thru Gilroy, the local thru the CV and into LA. The other would be the "express" fully High Speed Rail ROW running paralell to I-5. The idea is you get the best of both worlds where people needing to get between SF/SJ and LA can jet by on the express alignment while people in the central valley can now have their existing trains take them to SF and LA.

[202_Cyclist]

Excellent news for California's investment in modern, sustainable, and efficient transportation.

California wins big federal grant for high-speed rail. How much, and where will it be spent?

By Tim Sheehan
Fresno Bee
Sept. 25, 2023

"A federal grant of almost $202 million for California’s high-speed rail project, awarded Monday by the U.S. Department of Transportation, will help pay for the design and construction of six major structures to eliminate railroad crossings in the southern San Joaquin Valley.

The Consolidated Rail Infrastructure and Safety Improvements, or CRISI, award is the largest single grant from the pot of more than $1.4 billion announced Monday. The California High-Speed Rail Authority has its collective fingers crossed for getting much more than that to complete the work underway and to develop an initial operating line from Merced to Bakersfield. Those trains would travel through the Valley via Fresno at about 220 mph.

The CRISI grant will cover about 80% of the anticipated cost to design, purchase property and construction of six new structures intended to eliminate at-grade road crossings at existing BNSF Railway freight tracks and future high-speed rail tracks running through the city of Shafter, northwest of Bakersfield..."


https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local...#storylink=cpy

[LAsam]

^ Good! It's about time the rest of America's tax payers started doing their part to get this thing finished. Tired of them just laughing at us for how much we're spending on this project.

[DanielG425]

Originally Posted by LAsam

^ Good! It's about time the rest of America's tax payers started doing their part to get this thing finished. Tired of them just laughing at us for how much we're spending on this project.

Is this satire? I can't imagine this not being satire.

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by DanielG425

Is this satire? I can't imagine this not being satire.

Wdym

[Busy Bee]

There really should probably be a UK HSR thread, but since there apparently isn't I guess this is the most logical place to put this little depressing piece of news. The British PM is being excoriated by both parties and I have little doubt this will go down as one of the most shortsighted decisions in ages in the UK. He's promising other transportation projects with the money saved but just since those funds were "committed" to HS2 doesn't mean they can be trusted to redistribute them fully to worthwhile transport needs. He's even promising to take some of the HS2 money and spend them on motorways instead. I just hope when the next election comes and he loses as PM and Labour retakes power the full HS2 program will be recommitted to.

Now cue the idiotic low information American conservative press to run with this and present endless nonsensical parallels with CHSR.


Rishi Sunak Cancels a Rail Project to Build an Image
The British prime minister embraced a more divisive profile, casting himself as a disrupter and scrapping part of the High Speed 2 line that predecessors had championed.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak of Britain, taking the stage at his first Conservative Party conference as leader on Wednesday, sought to cast himself as a change agent who would rebuild his economically depleted country.

But in one change that swiftly undercut his claim to be a builder, Mr. Sunak said he would pull the plug on a key part of an ambitious high-speed rail project that had been a cornerstone of his party’s promises to spread prosperity to the north of England.

The prime minister said the curtailment of part of the project, called HS2, was less a retreat than a redistribution of resources. He promised that the saved money would be used to better connect cities in England’s north with each other, rather than with London, pledging to build light-rail networks and tram systems, and to upgrade highways across the north.

“HS2 is the ultimate example of the old consensus,” Mr. Sunak said in his hourlong address to an audience of Conservative Party members, members of Parliament and activists. “The facts have changed, and the right thing to do when the facts change is to have the courage to change direction.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/04/w...l-project.html

More:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...manchester-leg

[TowerDude]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

There really should probably be a UK HSR thread, but since there apparently isn't I guess this is the most logical place to put this little depressing piece of news. The British PM is being excoriated by both parties and I have little doubt this will go down as one of the most shortsighted decisions in ages in the UK. He's promising other transportation projects with the money saved but just since those funds were "committed" to HS2 doesn't mean they can be trusted to redistribute them fully to worthwhile transport needs. He's even promising to take some of the HS2 money and spend them on motorways instead. I just hope when the next election comes and he loses as PM and Labour retakes power the full HS2 program will be recommitted to.

Now cue the idiotic low information American conservative press to run with this and present endless nonsensical parallels with CHSR.


Rishi Sunak Cancels a Rail Project to Build an Image
The British prime minister embraced a more divisive profile, casting himself as a disrupter and scrapping part of the High Speed 2 line that predecessors had championed.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak of Britain, taking the stage at his first Conservative Party conference as leader on Wednesday, sought to cast himself as a change agent who would rebuild his economically depleted country.

But in one change that swiftly undercut his claim to be a builder, Mr. Sunak said he would pull the plug on a key part of an ambitious high-speed rail project that had been a cornerstone of his party’s promises to spread prosperity to the north of England.

The prime minister said the curtailment of part of the project, called HS2, was less a retreat than a redistribution of resources. He promised that the saved money would be used to better connect cities in England’s north with each other, rather than with London, pledging to build light-rail networks and tram systems, and to upgrade highways across the north.

“HS2 is the ultimate example of the old consensus,” Mr. Sunak said in his hourlong address to an audience of Conservative Party members, members of Parliament and activists. “The facts have changed, and the right thing to do when the facts change is to have the courage to change direction.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/04/w...l-project.html

More:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...manchester-leg

Sunak should go to prison for that.

[jmecklenborg]

You have to wonder if some interest in Birmingham has acted behind the scenes to keep this service to itself.

I seem to recall that some criticism of the plan was that at full build-out Birmingham would have to reduce its use of HS2 to accommodate the northern trains.

[ih8samson]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

I just hope when the next election comes and he loses as PM and Labour retakes power the full HS2 program will be recommitted to.

Not likely. The Tories have stated they intend to sell off the properties acquired for the HS2 right of way and use the proceeds to fund their other transportation priorities. Salting the proverbial earth. In a few years they'll complain the Labour government has failed to deliver transportation infrastructure. This is politics now.

[Busy Bee]

Pure evil.

[202_Cyclist]

California High-Speed Rail proposes modification to L.A.-to-Anaheim segment

By Travis Schlepp
KTLA
Oct. 30, 2023

"The California High-Speed Rail Authority is making some changes to its planned segment from Los Angeles to Anaheim.

On Monday, CAHSR announced it now plans to add a fourth rail line between the two Southern California cities, allowing for commuter rail systems and freight trains to each have their own dedicated sets of tracks, rather than have to share and coordinate through the busy metropolitan section.

The changes are minor in concept, but are expected to have a meaningful impact once the commuter train service begins operation in the next decade or so..."

https://ktla.com/news/california/cal...aheim-segment/