Calgary Roads

[H.E.Pennypacker]

Anyone else think that if McCall Lake GC is closed and sold for development, that it would be a prime opportunity for the City to fix and redesign the cluster**** that is McKnight/32nd Ave interchanges as they approach Deerfoot??

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by H.E.Pennypacker

Anyone else think that if McCall Lake GC is closed and sold for development, that it would be a prime opportunity for the City to fix and redesign the cluster**** that is McKnight/32nd Ave interchanges as they approach Deerfoot??

Nope.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

We have one of the highest educated populations in North America, and drivers in most other jurisdictions have figured out HOV lanes without a problem. I suggest that if someone is too careless or clueless to notice or understand a standard traffic sign, they are too careless or clueless to be allowed to operate a two ton machine travelling up to 110 km/h.

The problem is enforcement -- if a dozen cameras went up, one every 2-3 blocks, and people started getting $60 tickets if they appeared in two adjacent images with a solo driver only, the lane would be respected real quick. The deeper problem is NIMBYism and the driver monopoly mentality -- converting a lane to HOV and bus use is and actually enforcing it would have caused a public outcry (even though it would move more people faster -- the shoulder lanes on Centre St probably move more people than any other lane of roadway in the city). So, instead, the signs went up but nobody enforced the rules. And now, we're in a tough position where if you start ticketing people for breaking the law without a big public outreach campaign, people will get upset because they've broken the law dozens of times before without sanction.

And the same thing is now happening on 9th in Inglewood.

There is no reason that we can't enforce most traffic laws by camera, except everyone seems to think they are cash cows...

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by H.E.Pennypacker

Anyone else think that if McCall Lake GC is closed and sold for development, that it would be a prime opportunity for the City to fix and redesign the cluster**** that is McKnight/32nd Ave interchanges as they approach Deerfoot??

Not sure how McCall lake would help that given the development already between there and Deerfoot. Now Fox Hollow on the other hand would certainly help.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by H.E.Pennypacker

Anyone else think that if McCall Lake GC is closed

I think if McCall Lake is closed our politicians need to be shot.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by H.E.Pennypacker

Anyone else think that if McCall Lake GC is closed and sold for development, that it would be a prime opportunity for the City to fix and redesign the cluster**** that is McKnight/32nd Ave interchanges as they approach Deerfoot??

Too complicated and likely too expensive for the city to accomplish.

To make any headway on the Deerfoot/32nd,/McKnight issues:
- Remove the intersection at McKnight and 12th.
- New intersection at Aviation Rd(15th Street) and McKnight.
- New major road 15th Street from McKnight to 32nd.
- New intersection at 15th Street and 40th Ave as the primary entrance into the industrial park.
- Remove the north side of the intersection at 12 Street and 32nd.
- New intersection at 15th Street (new road) and 32nd to be about where the McCall Lake entrance is currently located.

The payoff for all this work is that key choke point intersections are moved farther to the east. Too much resource for not enough payoff, IMHO.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by Cage

Too complicated and likely too expensive for the city to accomplish.

To make any headway on the Deerfoot/32nd,/McKnight issues:
- Remove the intersection at McKnight and 12th.
- New intersection at Aviation Rd(15th Street) and McKnight.
- New major road 15th Street from McKnight to 32nd.
- New intersection at 15th Street and 40th Ave as the primary entrance into the industrial park.
- Remove the north side of the intersection at 12 Street and 32nd.
- New intersection at 15th Street (new road) and 32nd to be about where the McCall Lake entrance is currently located.

The payoff for all this work is that key choke point intersections are moved farther to the east. Too much resource for not enough payoff, IMHO.

McKnight/12th should be an interchange, not an intersection. This will be built like this: flyover of 12th Street over Mcknight. Right in right outs to 14th street on the south side, and 15th street on the North side. Widen roads as necessary.

I think your 15th Street going all the way through could work, but I would align it with 12th Street south of 32nd Ave. No sense adding another light along 32nd Ave, One 4 point intersection is better than two three point intersections.

Redesign the 32nd Ave Deerfoot interchange. Perhaps a diverging diamond interchange would work here.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

I think if McCall Lake is closed our politicians need to be shot.

I, too, like losing hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in maintenance costs.

[DizzyEdge]

Re HOV lanes
The CPS do enforce it occasionally, I've seen them on 9th ave in inglewood pulling people over. It's like shooting fish in a barrel, where maybe 50% or more of the people coming down the outside lane are pulled over, they could probably fund their entire budget just on HOV lane fines.

Forget McKnight... get serious about Airport Trail and funnel everyone up there... build a loop WB-SB there and widen the bridge. Interchanges along Airport Trail from Deerfoot through to Stoney. It'll be cheaper in the end.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Re HOV lanes
The CPS do enforce it occasionally, I've seen them on 9th ave in inglewood pulling people over. It's like shooting fish in a barrel, where maybe 50% or more of the people coming down the outside lane are pulled over, they could probably fund their entire budget just on HOV lane fines.

They do this at the top of the Center Street hill once in a while too

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

They do this at the top of the Center Street hill once in a while too

Perhaps the definition of "once in a while" needs to fleshed out a bit - yeah, I've 'once' seen CPS pulling people over at 7th Ave North for violating the HOV rules but it is quite apparent that there hasn't been enough enforcement as is made evident by the multitudes of drivers who continue to abuse the HOV lane every weekday.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by speedog

Perhaps the definition of "once in a while" needs to fleshed out a bit - yeah, I've 'once' seen CPS pulling people over at 7th Ave North for violating the HOV rules but it is quite apparent that there hasn't been enough enforcement as is made evident by the multitudes of drivers who continue to abuse the HOV lane every weekday.

I am in inglewood every day, so I would say I probably only see them doing it once every 3 months.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

I am in inglewood every day, so I would say I probably only see them doing it once every 3 months.

And at every 3 months, that would probably be a good contributing factor as to why drivers just aren't getting it. I would dare say that the revenues realized for fines doled out to date don't come near to the monies that were spent to implement these mostly ineffective HOV lanes on Centre Street and in Inglewood. Better yet, the lane additions on Centre Street up by McKnight have just added in an extended right turn lane for NB traffic even though it's designated as a bus lane - no enforcement there either.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by speedog

And at every 3 months, that would probably be a good contributing factor as to why drivers just aren't getting it. I would dare say that the revenues realized for fines doled out to date don't come near to the monies that were spent to implement these mostly ineffective HOV lanes on Centre Street and in Inglewood. Better yet, the lane additions on Centre Street up by McKnight have just added in an extended right turn lane for NB traffic even though it's designated as a bus lane - no enforcement there either.

They could clean up. Why don't they just sit there all day every day? the Parking guys do that, maybe they should give the CPS some lessons

[Jimby]

I took Stoney Trail SB from 17 Av SE to Peigan Tr WB and there I sat...



art of paving by LUMIN8, on Flickr

[Cage]

Originally Posted by speedog

And at every 3 months, that would probably be a good contributing factor as to why drivers just aren't getting it. I would dare say that the revenues realized for fines doled out to date don't come near to the monies that were spent to implement these mostly ineffective HOV lanes on Centre Street and in Inglewood. Better yet, the lane additions on Centre Street up by McKnight have just added in an extended right turn lane for NB traffic even though it's designated as a bus lane - no enforcement there either.

PUTTING ON THE JERK SUIT HERE.

The fine is $60 no demerits. I don't travel in Inglewood or Centre street corridors, but here is my analysis. At $60 there would have to be a good chance of me getting caught greater than once per week before I would never use the HOV as a SOV. At once per month chance of getting caught, I would say put on my tab to the cop and pay the fine. AT once every six months to year;so long suckers - eat my dust.

What would get me out of HOV lane. Jam the lane up with buses that stop every 1km combined with drivers in the regular lanes who will not let me into the lane such that there is no time savings for using the HOV lane. With no time advantage (or very little advantage) the benefit side of the equation does not outweigh the cost side WRT chance of getting a ticket.

So here is the challenge, make it so socially unacceptable to drive in HOV lane as SOV that SOV cars do not let the jerk into regular traffic. Implement other restrictions such that the jerk cost vs benefit analysis does not support using the HOV.

[/jerk-suit-off]

[speedog]

Problem with HOV on Centre Street is that it's not really a road that should be used for this as there's just too many cross intersections with people trying to get off and on Centre street and supposedly supposed to be moving over a lane to the left to honour thy HOV rules. Too much slow traffic during the rush hour for it to be effective - just tonight, I got onto NB Centre at 12th Ave (only person in my vehicle) and wasn't able to get over to the next lane for 3 blocks. That means for 3 blocks I was breaking the law and I do not believe holding up the HOV lane to get into the next lane over is a solution either.

So for anyone who regularly travels Centre Street North or 9th Ave in Inglewood - are the HOV lanes really doing what they're supposed to be doing because I don't see them as being any faster than the other lanes. Add into that the #2 NB bus trying to swing over 3 lanes to turn left at 12th Ave during the PM rush and you just get a bigger mess.

That's an awesome picture Jimby. I wish I had a good camera to take pictures when I'm down there.

[Fuzz]

Probably wrong thread, but. . . RE. #2 bus. It shouldn't stop anywhere on centre north of downtown. There are enough other buses that serve that route, there is no reason it needs to swing across all those lanes to service 2 stops.

I take the #2 in the winter, and I'm not sure if its representative of other routes in the city, but it really is a horrible experience. Going southbound, downtown it stops 3 times in 1.5 city blocks. Its ridiculous. That being said, going to work is much quicker than going home. 20-30 min.

Going northbound, I can actually walk the 5 km home(direct) FASTER than the bus can travel in the winter about 1/2 half the time. That's 50 min. The bus travels about 7km. Most of that time is spent traversing 5th ave with no dedicated transit lane, and centre street where the HOV lane is pointless for bus priority. Though lately 4th st at 16th ave really backs up. I hope that's just because of the road work on Edmonton Trail.

I ride my bike in the spring/summer/fall. I'm riding deeper into the fall just because of the haunting memories of taking the bus. I walk home any day its warmer than -5°C.