Surrey Langley Skytrain - Expo Line Extension | Proposed

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Of course, failing something that extreme, a driver can simple refuse to drive until the unwanted "rider" gets off; anecdotally speaking, even a simple "leave" over the intercom should suffice (at least in Vancouver).

I think what would happen is that they would drive and call for a supervisor to the next stop.

[ryanmaccdn]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Somehow, I don't believe you.

Of course, failing something that extreme, a driver can simple refuse to drive until the unwanted "rider" gets off; anecdotally speaking, even a simple "leave" over the intercom should suffice (at least in Vancouver).



And for ridership data collection, distance-based fares or just requiring a tap-in to prevent the need for fines in the first place? Low-tech, non-digitized paper tickets and a picket line of Transit Police - a common sight as recently as 2013 - isn't just "last century," it's downright North Korean.



The spacing's fine. What we need is more frequency - a 15 minute wait in the Old World means that your bus is late.

Wait are you in crazy-town. Bus drivers are strictly bared from preventing or stopping passengers who don't pay their fare. They would be fired immediately and most likely be open for a lawsuit. The only thing they can do is press the button designed for this situation for paperwork reasons.

Thousands of passengers don't pay their bus fare every day in Vancouver. Try riding any Hastings route, it's easily 1 out of 5.

[Orcair]

Originally Posted by ryanmaccdn

Wait are you in crazy-town. Bus drivers are strictly bared from preventing or stopping passengers who don't pay their fare. They would be fired immediately and most likely be open for a lawsuit. The only thing they can do is press the button designed for this situation for paperwork reasons.

I've seen tons of drivers confront passengers over not paying - I know they're not supposed to but they still do in many situations.

[GlassCity]

Yeah I think the front-door thing is even if they can't stop you they still make you feel guilty and uncomfortable, so to those who that matters to would try and make sure they have fare before. As weak as that defense is, it is a situation most people would try and avoid. Whereas with all-door boarding there's really zero impediment to just not paying.

Locks only keep out the honest and all that.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

It's not like it's a huge innovation. I do informal non-front door boarding on buses when someone exits through the back and there's a wheelchair going through the front.

Other cities (such as Ottawa) have had 3 door boarding for decades, so I agree, it is nothing new. At busy stops it shortens the dwell time significantly. The driver can force all doors open, so someone doesn't have to be exiting that door for you to board via it.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Whereas with all-door boarding there's really zero impediment to just not paying.

You need to have random fare inspectors and large fines for not paying. If the size of the fine multiplied by the chance of being caught is larger than the bus fare, you are statistically better of paying your way.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Other cities (such as Ottawa) have had 3 door boarding for decades, so I agree, it is nothing new. At busy stops it shortens the dwell time significantly. The driver can force all doors open, so someone doesn't have to be exiting that door for you to board via it.

How ironic if we've just spent a hundred million or so on getting rid of the honor system on the Skytrain only to introduce it on the far more ubiquitous buses...

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by roger1818

You need to have random fare inspectors and large fines for not paying. If the size of the fine multiplied by the chance of being caught is larger than the bus fare, you are statistically better of paying your way.

We are way off topic here. This dialogue should be in the general transit discussion. Let's focus on specific transit issue SoF like the LRT streetcar.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

We are way off topic here. This dialogue should be in the general transit discussion. Let's focus on specific transit issue SoF like the LRT streetcar.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

We are way off topic here. This dialogue should be in the general transit discussion. Let's focus on specific transit issue SoF like the LRT streetcar.

We aren't that far off topic. This discussion has been related to the following post:

Originally Posted by Express691

According to this file, the 96 B-line will be part of a 3-door boarding pilot program, scheduled to behin in Q4 2017.

Since the thread topic is "Surrey/South of Fraser Rapid Transit | Proposed" and the 96 B-line (as defined by Wikipedia) "is an express bus line with bus rapid transit elements" in Surrey that LRT is proposing to replace, how exactly are we off topic?

Now maybe the horse is dead, but that is another issue.

[jsbertram]

i wonder if anyone at Surrey city hall has bothered to read this report to learn from the yankee's mistakes?
http://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/10/0...ew-streetcars/

seattle has an accident / interruption almost every week
https://seattletransitblog.com/2017/...e-interrupted/


someone should follow the money pushing this surrey project

they may find this is a scheme to promote local real-estate properties, not a transit project as we've been told

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

i wonder if anyone at Surrey city hall has bothered to read this report to learn from the yankee's mistakes?
http://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/10/0...ew-streetcars/

seattle has an accident / interruption almost every week
https://seattletransitblog.com/2017/...e-interrupted/


someone should follow the money pushing this surrey project

they may find this is a scheme to promote local real-esate properties, not a transit project as we've been told

No. Way.

Yeah, that's the goal of many (most) transit projects these days. Part of living in the entrepreneurial city. Bringing in development and revenue is more important than actually supporting good travel policy.

[mr.A]

I have to agree with the focus being on development. I got that feeling talking to the city rep on the open house and the focus was developing the Newton Town Centre and Guilford.

[Trainguy]

This is from the Surrey Board of Trade luncheon meeting:

“When it comes to transportation, it is no secret Surrey and South of the Fraser have been left behind,” Hepner said, noting the last new investment in rapid transit for Surrey was in the 1990s. “To say our time has come for a high-quality rapid transit solution for south of the Fraser is a vast understatement.”

The proposed South of Fraser Rapid Transit network features 27 kilometres of light rail transit, or LRT. There are two phases, with the first embracing Newton and Guildford LRT, and phase two, a Surrey-Langley line.

Desmond told the business audience that “If all goes well, the light rail project ought to be up and running by 2024.”

Hepner said LRT “will be the catalyst that will transform our city into an urban centre of business and commerce” and place 250,000 people within five minutes of accessing rapid transit. Expanding SkyTrain into Surrey would cost $950 million more than LRT to meet Surrey’s needs and cost 40 per cent more in operation and maintenance costs, Hepner claimed.

“I just can’t wait for the shovels to hit the ground,” she said. “We’re almost there.”

Hepner is just out to lunch throwing around numbers against Skytrain in support of LRT. How can LRT be cheaper to operate? LRT is just the wrong technology to go down Fraser Hwy. Desmond should be pushing for Skytrain to extend from KG. What a mess.....

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

"Expanding SkyTrain into Surrey would cost $950 million more than LRT to meet Surrey’s needs and cost 40 per cent more in operation and maintenance costs, Hepner claimed."

I can't possibly believe that Skytrain would cost that much more to run, and for me that casts an awful lot of doubt on her capital cost claim as well.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Expanding SkyTrain into Surrey would cost $950 million more than LRT to meet Surrey’s needs and cost 40 per cent more in operation and maintenance costs, Hepner claimed.

I would absolutely love to see her numbers backing this up.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I would absolutely love to see her numbers backing this up.

Sounds like Glen Clarke numbers from the "fudge it budget" from 1996.

I wouldn't want to be her when reality hits.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I would absolutely love to see her numbers backing this up.

It probably does cost more on an absolute basis. The per passenger numbers however are likely much lower.

Last I checked, the skytrain line was supposed to make an operating profit not long after construction. That is of course without debt servicing costs though.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

It probably does cost more on an absolute basis. The per passenger numbers however are likely much lower.

Last I checked, the skytrain line was supposed to make an operating profit not long after construction. That is of course without debt servicing costs though.

Sorry, but how could an automated line cost more than one with drivers?

That's why the Expo Line makes a profit - you don't have to pay a machine (not yet anyway).

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Sorry, but how could an automated line cost more than one with drivers?

That's why the Expo Line makes a profit - you don't have to pay a machine (not yet anyway).

Here is what the automated Expo line will sound like:

"The next station is.. King George. Will all passengers please leave the train at King George. Transfers to the slower and less frequent Langley line can be made at the station's lower level."