Homicide stats in Canadian Cities

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Agreed, but in cities like Toronto and Ottawa, it's often their kids and grandkids. So there probably needs to be some thought given as to why that is.

In Toronto, everyone is the kid or grandkid of immigrants though.

If I'm not mistaken, second generation Canadians as a whole are the most affluent, educated "generational" demographic in the country. So that in particular isn't really the problem here.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

In Toronto, everyone is the kid or grandkid of immigrants though.

If I'm not mistaken, second generation Canadians as a whole are the most affluent, educated "generational" demographic in the country. So that in particular isn't really the problem here.

I was actually going to add "of certain origins"... which of course leads us back to the same can of worms as before.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

As it stands, by far the biggest determinant as to one's likelihood to become involved in crime is not their ethnicity but whether or not they're growing up in entrenched poverty and in an unstable household; and surrounded by violence, drugs, and criminality. That's more likely to be the case for people of certain ethnicities vs others, but ethnicity in and of itself is not the root cause.

In any case, it's not as if no one has noticed any of this, nor is it any sort of hushed secret that such neighbourhoods in places like Toronto are largely comprised of racial minorities. There's a lot of outreach by the government, nonprofits, police, activists, religious groups, etc. directed at these particular communities. And then you have things like Toronto's Afro-centic school, which was created to address the higher drop out rate amongst black students. Not sure if that's necessarily the right approach, but it's not as if it's gone ignored.

Mistercorporate's shtick on the other hand isn't so much about bravely "identifying the problem" when no one else will, as it is about perpetuating negative stereotypes and justifying his racial biases.

.

As mean-spirited as his opinion is, you do realize that mistercorporate has very little if anything to do with the fact that kids from certain groups may be involved in crime to a troublesome degree?

[ssiguy]

London is sitting at 4. Windsor is at 7 which is extremely high for the city that a few years ago went an entire year without one.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Windsor is at 7 which is extremely high for the city that a few years ago went an entire year without one.

A bunch of black people must have moved to the city recently.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Doady

A bunch of black people must have moved to the city recently.

Montreal has a black population equal in proportion to that of Toronto and its murder rate is extremely low.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Doady

A bunch of black people must have moved to the city recently.

[wg_flamip]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I was actually going to add "of certain origins"... which of course leads us back to the same can of worms as before.

We shouldn't be afraid to recognize that different communities have faced different hurdles when integrating into Canadian life. However, we have to look bigger picture here, recognizing that integration is a two-way street.

Take the Somali community, for example, which has faced unique challenges when integrating here. While it's tempting to write those challenges off as a failure on the community's part, we have to recognize the immense barriers our government imposed on their integration into the country through the 1990s (which, IIRC, was when immigration from that country peaked); namely, permanent residency and its attendant benefits (the ability to find stable employment, access to certain social and educational programs, &c.) were withheld from that group (and from those from Afghanistan). This was the result of a requirement for refugee claimants to produce valid government-issued documents from their country of origin, which was next to impossible for most immigrants from Somalia due to the collapse of that country's government. This requirement was not in place when Vietnamese and Tamil refugees arrived in the previous decades and no longer exists due to the recognized harm it caused the affected communities.

And immigration policy is only one part of the picture. We also have to look at, for example, how child and family services treats specific communities (i.e, Black and Aboriginal children are more frequently removed from their parents than children in other groups, even where identical conditions exist), among many other considerations.

We have to take some responsibility here.

[vid]

Canadaland is currently running a podcast documentary about Thunder Bay's problems with racism and homicide. It's worth a listen.

http://www.canadalandshow.com/shows/thunder-bay/

[Rollerstud98]

The only reason to go near Thunder Bay is to check out the Terry Fox memorial, that man was a badass.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

The only reason to go near Thunder Bay is to check out the Terry Fox memorial, that man was a badass.

We're also too proud (like, alarmingly, disturbingly proud) of our cinnamon rolls with raspberry icing that we call Persians. If you're in this city you need to ask people about it because it's one of the most bizarre clingings to a foodstuff outside of Chicago and their obsession with that nasty breadbowl/tomato sauce soup-pizza thing.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by vid

We're also too proud (like, alarmingly, disturbingly proud) of our cinnamon rolls with raspberry icing that we call Persians. If you're in this city you need to ask people about it because it's one of the most bizarre clingings to a foodstuff outside of Chicago and their obsession with that nasty breadbowl/tomato sauce soup-pizza thing.

TBay Persians look damn delicious, I wonder if a restaurant in Toronto has them.

[vid]

I think there is one in Scarborough that's owned by a Thunder Bayer that has them. I could bring some when I go down there next but who knows when the fuck that is. When you travel with them, they give you the donuts and icing separate, and they always give you extra icing.

The original recipe icing has a secret recipe so all the "other" ones taste slightly different, but I've heard it's raspberry as opposed to strawberry and has a lot more fat than icing usually has.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by wg_flamip

We shouldn't be afraid to recognize that different communities have faced different hurdles when integrating into Canadian life. However, we have to look bigger picture here, recognizing that integration is a two-way street.

Take the Somali community, for example, which has faced unique challenges when integrating here. While it's tempting to write those challenges off as a failure on the community's part, we have to recognize the immense barriers our government imposed on their integration into the country through the 1990s (which, IIRC, was when immigration from that country peaked); namely, permanent residency and its attendant benefits (the ability to find stable employment, access to certain social and educational programs, &c.) were withheld from that group (and from those from Afghanistan). This was the result of a requirement for refugee claimants to produce valid government-issued documents from their country of origin, which was next to impossible for most immigrants from Somalia due to the collapse of that country's government. This requirement was not in place when Vietnamese and Tamil refugees arrived in the previous decades and no longer exists due to the recognized harm it caused the affected communities.

And immigration policy is only one part of the picture. We also have to look at, for example, how child and family services treats specific communities (i.e, Black and Aboriginal children are more frequently removed from their parents than children in other groups, even where identical conditions exist), among many other considerations.

We have to take some responsibility here.

Can we really compare Vietnamese and Sri Lankan refugees with those from Somalia? Worlds apart.

I've seen all of this first-hand. The mountain the typical Somali refugee has to climb is unimaginable: massive issues with literacy; culture/religion/dress which in no way align with their adopted country; race must play a role on a certain level even in a relatively open society like ours; and on and on and on.

We need to have an honest discussion about just how easily it will be for certain groups to integrate. The Horn of Africa might as well be Mars...

[Rollerstud98]

Originally Posted by vid

We're also too proud (like, alarmingly, disturbingly proud) of our cinnamon rolls with raspberry icing that we call Persians. If you're in this city you need to ask people about it because it's one of the most bizarre clingings to a foodstuff outside of Chicago and their obsession with that nasty breadbowl/tomato sauce soup-pizza thing.

I haven’t found myself in Ontario since July 2008. If I do ever find myself coming through there again I will check out these Persians you speak of!

[vid]

Ok cool it it's bad enough people here don't shut up about the damn things we don't need no foreigners banging on about em too

[north 42]

Originally Posted by Doady

A bunch of black people must have moved to the city recently.

Well one of the victims was actually was a black kid from Mississauga going to the university of Windsor, who was gunned down by two people in the city’s core. A lot of our drug and gun violence here has a Toronto connection.

Crimes are on the rise here in Windsor this year, most of which is a direct result of the increase in drug addiction and the rampant homelessness and vagrancy that the city is dealing with!

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Funny guy.

The lowest income cities and regions in Canada tend to concentrated in certain parts of Quebec and the Atlantic region, and almost all of them tend to have extremely low violent crime rates.

Obviously the higher violent crime rates tend to correlate with places that have high concentrations of young males from minorities with problems integrating society on a socio-economic level: typically indigenous youth on the Prairies and in the North, and black youths of various origins in places like Toronto and Ottawa.

There - I said it.

You can resume the dance now.

What is so horrible with what you just said?

[speedog]

Updated stats - numbers in brackets reflect number of new homicides since my September 26, 2018 post...

Regina - 5 (1)
Hamilton - 6 (1)
Mississauga - 6 (1)
Saskatoon - 8 (0)
Surrey - 11 (2)
Calgary - 12 (1)
Brampton - 13
Ottawa - 14 (1)
Vancouver - 14 (0)
Winnipeg - 17 (2)
Montreal - 18 (0)
Edmonton - 24 (3)
Toronto - 88 (7)

Now I wonder what the above numbers work out to on a per 100,000 rate - just off the top off my head Montreal and Calgary look to have quite low rates while Toronto, Saskatoon, Surrey, Brampton and Vancouver are at the opposite end of the spectrum.

[Djesus777]

Originally Posted by speedog

Updated stats - numbers in brackets reflect number of new homicides since my September 26, 2018 post...

Regina - 5 (1)
Hamilton - 6 (1)
Mississauga - 6 (1)
Saskatoon - 8 (0)
Surrey - 11 (2)
Calgary - 12 (1)
Brampton - 13
Ottawa - 14 (1)
Vancouver - 14 (0)
Winnipeg - 17 (2)
Montreal - 18 (0)
Edmonton - 24 (3)
Toronto - 88 (7)

Now I wonder what the above numbers work out to on a per 100,000 rate - just off the top off my head Montreal and Calgary look to have quite low rates while Toronto, Saskatoon, Surrey, Brampton and Vancouver are at the opposite end of the spectrum.

MTL is at 23 right now, which is crazy since the past two years we were averaging 22-23. Obviously, spikes are normal but at the same time you have to raise questions about how long this spike will occur for and will it get worse.