Winnipeg James Armstrong Richardson International Airport

[CoryB]

Might WS get into flying paid cargo to offset some of those long haul flights to offset a lack of business travelers? They clearly have a plan and their initial EU flights seem to be landing near large cities but at lower traffic airports.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Might WS get into flying paid cargo to offset some of those long haul flights to offset a lack of business travelers? They clearly have a plan and their initial EU flights seem to be landing near large cities but at lower traffic airports.

Even Zoom Airlines was big in belly cargo. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...lapse-1.734173

If they can sell premium cabin space, they will. I doubt they will keep the premium cabin tiny like Transat (12 seats in 'Club') - even their 763s have 24 premium seats. Now, with higher square footage, they would be a bit daft to not put in at the very least a dense as possible lie flat bed configuration. Doubt they will keep the wider plus seats, and switch to solely a higher pitch and recline for Plus. I guess they could go 4 class - dense, higher pitch plus, wider and higher pitch plus, and lie flat.

[Jammon]

I realize it's a bit of a pipe dream, but I would love to see seasonal service on WJ to Honolulu out of YWG.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by Jammon

I realize it's a bit of a pipe dream, but I would love to see seasonal service on WJ to Honolulu out of YWG.

I believe several forumers have already shat all over this idea as well.

[jmt18325]

It's unlikely for several reasons. You have to realize that Hawaii is as far away from Winnipeg as London.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

It's unlikely for several reasons. You have to realize that Hawaii is as far away from Winnipeg as London.

Distance shouldn't be an issue since they offer direct flights to Honolulu from Minneapolis. That's an illogical statement. However, the size of the plane does make a difference and you could only operate that route out of Winnipeg with one of WJ's new planes. I realize it's more than unlikely, but one can dream. I could see it as a potential stop over with a flight to Asia; i.e. Manilla

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Jammon

Distance shouldn't be an issue since they offer direct flights to Honolulu from Minneapolis. That's an illogical statement. However, the size of the plane does make a difference and you could only operate that route out of Winnipeg with one of WJ's new planes. I realize it's more than unlikely, but one can dream. I could see it as a potential stop over with a flight to Asia; i.e. Manilla

Minneapolis is almost the size of Montreal and serves as many passengers and Toronto....

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Pinus

I believe several forumers have already shat all over this idea as well.

While the idea of debating what places could be connected to Winnipeg does make for interesting debate (and is one of the main reasons for this forum), tempering it with a dose of what is reasonably likely/possible is good too.

It's akin to dreaming about a lottery win - fun to do for a bit, but I'm not planning on putting down a deposit on a Ferrari just yet.

As for Honolulu, I'm curious how many people do visit there from Manitoba - I always thought the Caribbean was more of a draw for residents of Manitoba eastwards and Hawaii lured people from Saskatchewan westwards. It could be possible with a 737 MAX that Westjet is ordering.

Minneapolis is a bigger city (~4 million) and Hawaii is a domestic destination for Americans, so I could see why it's a more popular choice from there.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by wave46

While the idea of debating what places could be connected to Winnipeg does make for interesting debate (and is one of the main reasons for this forum), tempering it with a dose of what is reasonably likely/possible is good too.

It's akin to dreaming about a lottery win - fun to do for a bit, but I'm not planning on putting down a deposit on a Ferrari just yet.

As for Honolulu, I'm curious how many people do visit there from Manitoba - I always thought the Caribbean was more of a draw for residents of Manitoba eastwards and Hawaii lured people from Saskatchewan westwards. It could be possible with a 737 MAX that Westjet is ordering.

Minneapolis is a bigger city (~4 million) and Hawaii is a domestic destination for Americans, so I could see why it's a more popular choice from there.

Think of how many people you personally know who travelto Hawaii during winter. There's gotta be enough for weekly service in and around winnipeg.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by wave46

As for Honolulu, I'm curious how many people do visit there from Manitoba - I always thought the Caribbean was more of a draw for residents of Manitoba eastwards and Hawaii lured people from Saskatchewan westwards. It could be possible with a 737 MAX that Westjet is ordering.

Minneapolis is a bigger city (~4 million) and Hawaii is a domestic destination for Americans, so I could see why it's a more popular choice from there.

You're right, Winnipeg is kind of on the divide between eastern vacation destinations (Caribbean, Florida) and western ones (Arizona, California, Hawaii). So the critical mass for Hawaii may not be that strong. I guess it doesn't help that the actual destinations in Hawaii are a bit splintered, i.e. most people I know who go to Hawaii typically go to Maui over Oahu, it's not like everyone going to Hawaii from here flies to Honolulu.

That said, I could see WS operating infrequent 787 service to Maui or Honolulu at some point, say, once or twice a week as with their Fort Lauderdale flights. I think it's likelier than Manila.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by esquire

You're right, Winnipeg is kind of on the divide between eastern vacation destinations (Caribbean, Florida) and western ones (Arizona, California, Hawaii). So the critical mass for Hawaii may not be that strong. I guess it doesn't help that the actual destinations in Hawaii are a bit splintered, i.e. most people I know who go to Hawaii typically go to Maui over Oahu, it's not like everyone going to Hawaii from here flies to Honolulu.

That said, I could see WS operating infrequent 787 service to Hawaii at some point, say, once or twice a week as with their Fort Lauderdale flights. I think it's likelier than Manila.

A 787 would likely be too large (~300 passengers), but a 737 MAX 7 (~150ish) would hit the mark nicely. The MAX 7 has the legs for that kind of travel and some reserve too - it could be a 1-2X week seasonal service.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by wave46

A 787 would likely be too large (~300 passengers), but a 737 MAX 7 (~150ish) would hit the mark nicely. The MAX 7 has the legs for that kind of travel and some reserve too - it could be a 1-2X week seasonal service.

Considering that airlines like Transat have done the 1x a week widebody thing to destinations less popular than Hawaii with some success here over the years, I would think that WS could pull it off with the 787. But yeah, a 737 MAX could work too.

I don't think any Canadian carriers make two stops in Hawaii with the same flight, e.g. YWG-OGG-HNL. Is that sort of thing allowed? I wonder if that would make service more feasible.

[CoryB]

Something that will hurt a YWG - Hawaii flight of any structure near term is the CDN-USD exchange rate. Hawaii on a good day is not a cheap place to go an visit. I think those sort of flights where originally on WestJets plans when they invested in the 767 fleet but perhaps the hotel package deals they hoped to land didn't happen. A Hawaii play is all about the vacation package and not just selling the seat on the plane.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Something that will hurt a YWG - Hawaii flight of any structure near term is the CDN-USD exchange rate. Hawaii on a good day is not a cheap place to go an visit. I think those sort of flights where originally on WestJets plans when they invested in the 767 fleet but perhaps the hotel package deals they hoped to land didn't happen. A Hawaii play is all about the vacation package and not just selling the seat on the plane.

Hawaii is always an interesting destination because it's one of the few tropical destinations that does not do a good job of packaging trips. I've been there 4x and I have always booked my own hotel and flight separately. With that being said, I have found it cheaper to do that rather than book a package plus I get to determine what hotel fits with my budget and preferred location.

As for the demand, I think it's there. We used to run charters out of Winnipeg to Honolulu years back and they were always packed. I usually fly out of Minneapolis and on each flight about a third from the YWG-MPS leg will also be on my Honolulu flight. But you're right- the strength of the dollar now does not favour US destinations.

[esquire]

^ The sticker prices at the grocery store, restaurants, etc. in Hawaii reminded me of the ones you'd see in Northern Manitoba, except it's in US dollars to boot. Not a cheap destination by any measure. But then, if the C$ goes up, demand will rise but there will be even more demand growth in places like Vancouver and Calgary, so Winnipeg is no farther ahead.

[MalcolmTucker]

Back when there was Canada 3000 and Royal did Winnipeg have direct island flights?

Edit: Yes there was, and Ward Air, and CP Air.

[CoryB]

Something that makes Hawaii somewhat appealing as a sun vacation spot is all the US brands and chains people are familiar with there so you can walk into a place and order from a menu you would find in some place like Fargo and have a very similar experience, but with a bit of a price premium.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Something that makes Hawaii somewhat appealing as a sun vacation spot is all the US brands and chains people are familiar with there so you can walk into a place and order from a menu you would find in some place like Fargo and have a very similar experience, but with a bit of a price premium.

More importantly, being the USA, health and safety standards are high. I feel comfortable taking my kids there and driving on the highways, walking around at night, eating all the food without worries, etc. If you have to go to the hospital, you know that the care is excellent. Not all island destinations can offer that kind of peace of mind.

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by esquire

More importantly, being the USA, health and safety standards are high. I feel comfortable taking my kids there and driving on the highways, walking around at night, eating all the food without worries, etc. If you have to go to the hospital, you know that the care is excellent. Not all island destinations can offer that kind of peace of mind.

Good points

I don't doubt YWG could support a Hawaii flight, personally.

But then again, I also feel YWG could support a lot more direct flights than it currently has, though it seems to get the short end of the stick in that regard.

Originally Posted by Bigtime

...after you connect to that flight in YYC.

[CoryB]

I think one of the big challenges with Hawaii in the YWG market is the lack of a direct flight. If you could book a nice vacation package with a direct flight like Mexico and the Caribbean the conversation starts to shift.