PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread II

[New2Fishtown]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I dunno, I’ll take it. Both Dilworth Plaza and Love Park were pretty bad back in the day. The picture makes it look a lot better than it was.

Not for nothing, but in terms of ongoing user experience, LOVE Park is a city facility whereas Dilworth Park is managed and programmed by Center City District. So it's really apples to oranges in terms of capacity, budget, etc. Dilworth benefits from being overseen by a smaller and more nimble organization that has staff dedicated to corporate partnerships (Rothman Rink, etc) and curating events, as well as very methodically transitioning the plantings and the layout as the seasons change. LOVE is...seemingly about as well managed as any underfunded Parks & Rec facility.

[cardeza]

This is article about rent concessions being offered due to all the supply of new lux apts in Philly

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...ift-cards.html

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by cardeza

This is article about rent concessions being offered due to all the supply of new lux apts in Philly

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...ift-cards.html

I know that there are practical reasons preventing this, but why not just... lower rent?

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by cardeza

This is article about rent concessions being offered due to all the supply of new lux apts in Philly

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...ift-cards.html

Rut Roh.

In fairness, not a lot of people are moving around at the moment. The end of Spring would be a better time to tally this up.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by cardeza

This is article about rent concessions being offered due to all the supply of new lux apts in Philly

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...ift-cards.html

Replying to your post, but not calling you out.

While the rental market may be in a temporary dip, the details don't paint a grim picture.
(I see this headline as keeping with the trend of all doom & gloom in Philadelphia, versus an actual informative measurement of the market)...

1. Per an article quote, during market equilibrium, 5.5% of buildings offer concessions, the current rate is 8.4%, also coming out of the slower winter months.

2. Concessions aren't a new phenomenon, and Philadelphia actually ranks on the low end of markets offering concessions (lower than hotspots like Atlanta, Nashville, Austin, etc.).
https://www.zillow.com/research/rent...essions-33386/

3. There are thousands of units coming online at nearly the same time in a relatively small geographic area, yet the overall rental vacancy rate in Philadelphia is still well under 10%. This is likely a brief period of higher vacancies/concessions while units are absorbed. By early 2025, the amount of units coming online will drop significantly and the market will have time to catchup.

4. Lastly, as the Ryland developer said, this is temporary and not really alarming.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I know that there are practical reasons preventing this, but why not just... lower rent?

It impacts the accounting of revenue and thus the valuation of the building.

It's better to say you rented at a high value but offer a lower effective rent then at a lower value. Plus, a good number of your renters will stay on so when the concession expires, you in effect get a higher actual rent then you would if you locked them in at the lower effective rent then tried to raise to the higher rent in one step which is more likely to prompt them to move out.

It is obviously more effective this way or else they'd be doing it differently.

[BroadandMarket]

Looks like they'll fully demo one building and then incorporate facades of other stone/brick mill buildings. The historical report says it was a dye mill that operated from 1869-2021 and never reopened after Ida. Unfortunately, this is the best case for this end of Main Street. All of these buildings were under 6+ feet of water during Hurricane Ida. That wasn't the first or last time this area floods severely so the only way to move forward is build up with parking on the first floor.

https://www.phila.gov/media/20240326...lJ9nNJzaLCw3mL

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Replying to your post, but not calling you out.

While the rental market may be in a temporary dip, the details don't paint a grim picture.
(I see this headline as keeping with the trend of all doom & gloom in Philadelphia, versus an actual informative measurement of the market)...

1. Per an article quote, during market equilibrium, 5.5% of buildings offer concessions, the current rate is 8.4%, also coming out of the slower winter months.

2. Concessions aren't a new phenomenon, and Philadelphia actually ranks on the low end of markets offering concessions (lower than hotspots like Atlanta, Nashville, Austin, etc.).
https://www.zillow.com/research/rent...essions-33386/

3. There are thousands of units coming online at nearly the same time in a relatively small geographic area, yet the overall rental vacancy rate in Philadelphia is still well under 10%. This is likely a brief period of higher vacancies/concessions while units are absorbed. By early 2025, the amount of units coming online will drop significantly and the market will have time to catchup.

4. Lastly, as the Ryland developer said, this is temporary and not really alarming.

I dont know that the article is attempting to sound the alarm- I know many of you push back on any remotely objective article that says anything other than there is unlimited demand for these apartments. I think the article is giving a balanced look at the situation- certain areas are seeing a potential glut of luxury apts and they are all going after the same renters in the same price points. It's not a catastrophe, but its likely going to take a while to sort out considering the close proximity of some of these projects. Overall, there is little to no population growth here so naturally there are only so many new apts that will comfortably be absorbed, especially when so much of the new supply is in one area of the city.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by cardeza

I dont know that the article is attempting to sound the alarm- I know many of you push back on any remotely objective article that says anything other than there is unlimited demand for these apartments. I think the article is giving a balanced look at the situation- certain areas are seeing a potential glut of luxury apts and they are all going after the same renters in the same price points. It's not a catastrophe, but its likely going to take a while to sort out considering the close proximity of some of these projects. Overall, there is little to no population growth here so naturally there are only so many new apts that will comfortably be absorbed, especially when so much of the new supply is in one area of the city.

I don't think anyone here thinks like the bold (that I have seen).

I didn't say the article, the headline/title. Many Philadelphia publications push subjective or negative headlines, but the details of the actual articles are often non-news worthy, neutral, even positive, and often informative. I can share a dozen examples within the past month...

Yes, city population is down, but Greater Center City (and the Riverwards toward No Libs & Fishtown) is increasing, which is where most of the new construction is. It is not simple math, as in, population drops, why are we building? I think the market is fine/strong, and 2025 will be a good catchup year (less new units).

And I do not mean to be dismissive, I read the Inquirer and PBJ daily, and they jump at any fluctuation in business, real estate, crime, etc., and lead with questionable headlines. Though maybe this wasn't the best example, but the Inquirer had a similar article last week (more dramatic headline), which is why I called this one out.

On a separate tangent... It would be nice if Philly publications were occasional cheerleaders for new construction, job growth, crime drop, etc. I rarely see that OR the article is actually positive, but the headline has a negative spin, like the recent one about a tech firm "betting on Conshohocken, not Center City"...

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I don't think anyone here thinks like the bold (that I have seen).

I didn't say the article, the headline/title. Many Philadelphia publications push subjective or negative headlines, but the details of the actual articles are often non-news worthy, neutral, even positive, and often informative. I can share a dozen examples within the past month...

Headlines are almost never written by the writer of the article, but rather by editors who may have done little more than skim the article. And too it’s typical for online versions of stories to have different heds than print, written by online editors who are more click-bait oriented.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

On a separate tangent... It would be nice if Philly publications were occasional cheerleaders for new construction, job growth, crime drop, etc. I rarely see that OR the article is actually positive, but the headline has a negative spin, like the recent one about a tech firm "betting on Conshohocken, not Center City"...

This. The doom loop is exhausting.

The Inquirer is literally the only paper of record in its city I've read that writes every new article about housing construction with the angle of gentrification.

If you read the Nashville Tennessean or the Atlanta Journal Constitution or the Miami Herald and the article is about a new (insert) building, company, etc...it's unfailingly positive.

Here it's like new units on the docket...going to push old residents out.

Ok downer. Not even true.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

This. The doom loop is exhausting.

The Inquirer is literally the only paper of record in its city I've read that writes every new article about housing construction with the angle of gentrification.

If you read the Nashville Tennessean or the Atlanta Journal Constitution or the Miami Herald and the article is about a new (insert) building, company, etc...it's unfailingly positive.

Here it's like new units on the docket...going to push old residents out.

Ok downer. Not even true.

Blame the thinking on the years of slow Economic Activity that plagued the Philly Metro. If we had development levels for the past decades like NYC people would be more welcoming to Development because its common, but since we have more lots and abandoned buildings than their should be we have a mindset of growth being perceived as bad

[UrbanRevival]

I

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Blame the thinking on the years of slow Economic Activity that plagued the Philly Metro. If we had development levels for the past decades like NYC people would be more welcoming to Development because its common, but since we have more lots and abandoned buildings than their should be we have a mindset of growth being perceived as bad

I think it's just a simple aversion to change. I think it goes without saying that Philadelphians are MUCH harder on their city than pretty much any other major city's residents. It's almost like optimism is seen as "silly." There's always a "Catch 22" amongst Philadelphians, and frankly it's just a Philly pastime to truly enjoy b*tching about something and focusing on the negative.

It makes for resilience and honesty, but it's also super frustrating that so many Philadelphians still refuse to accept that Philly is light years ahead of where it was in 1980.

The city is finally adapting to the global knowledge economy in a transformational way. Time to really brush those chips of our shoulders and take off the "Negadelphian" glasses.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

This. The doom loop is exhausting.

The Inquirer is literally the only paper of record in its city I've read that writes every new article about housing construction with the angle of gentrification.

If you read the Nashville Tennessean or the Atlanta Journal Constitution or the Miami Herald and the article is about a new (insert) building, company, etc...it's unfailingly positive.

Here it's like new units on the docket...going to push old residents out.

Ok downer. Not even true.

I actually think it's even worse in the sense that positive news is often just not even covered. For example, violent crime has been dropping since post-pandemic highs but nary a peep about this from local publications after writing article after article about the crime surge.

I really think it's editorialized as well. The inky is now staffed by a ton of younger reporters like Jake Blumgart but they all seem to fall into the familiar pattern of somehow making good news sound bad, or ominous. Like the editors have stepped in, stamped out their youthful exuberance and make them add the "but."

Eg Philly poverty rate is at it's lowest since in nearly a century, BUT... problems still lurk for the "poorest big city in America" (a phrase they repeat often)

Or... International Tourism has returned to 2019 pre-pandemic levels, BUT... % growth still lags behind other cities.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Londonee

I actually think it's even worse in the sense that positive news is often just not even covered. For example, violent crime has been dropping since post-pandemic highs but nary a peep about this from local publications after writing article after article about the crime surge.

I really think it's editorialized as well. The inky is now staffed by a ton of younger reporters like Jake Blumgart but they all seem to fall into the familiar pattern of somehow making good news sound bad, or ominous. Like the editors have stepped in, stamped out their youthful exuberance and make them add the "but."

Eg Philly poverty rate is at it's lowest since in nearly a century, BUT... problems still lurk for the "poorest big city in America" (a phrase they repeat often)

Or... International Tourism has returned to 2019 pre-pandemic levels, BUT... % growth still lags behind other cities.

And the worst part is people make decisions based on these headlines.

I got into a (heated but friendly) argument at a bar a few weeks ago with a young black doctor who's finishing up his fellowship at Penn and he said he wanted to leave Philadelphia because it was the "poorest city in America".

I asked him if he knew what that moniker was even referring to. He repeated ad nauseum that it's just really poor here and there is no opportunity here for him (ironic considering he's training at one of the best medical centers in the world). I explained it was referring to the % of people in poverty and not overall income levels, and went on to explain that there is still a lot of wealth in the city and even more in the region. He literally wouldn't listen to me. Said I was wrong, etc etc. Like why would the paper of record continuously repeat it if it wasn't true.

Anyways. I defend the Inquirer at times. I have a subscription because I think it is important to support local news (even saying that about the Inqy is said, because it used to be considered a national paper), but it's exhausting.

I will never forget the article about incomes post decennial census. Literally incomes have exploded all over the city in the past ten years including in the poorest neighbohoods (even MORESO in the poorest neighborhoods), the poverty rate has come down, and the article posted all this incredible positive data and literally ALL of the words were about inequality. ALL.OF.THEM.

[bdurk]

The new McDermott Building that took place of the old Jimmy G's is looking pretty sharp. I kinda wish they used navy bricks instead of navy siding but I like it nonetheless.







New project on the southwest corner of Broad and Girard looks great too. Can't wait for the Lidl and hopefully other retail here. Hopefully the two corners to the north of Girard follow suit.

[jaysb]

23rd and Market is cooking. This is going to look really cool.

I'm sorry, IMGUR used to let you select sizes to post but I don't see that option now.

[Easiered]

I tried to count number of floors. Isn’t this a high rise?

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by Easiered

I tried to count number of floors. Isn’t this a high rise?

Not quite, only 8 floors.

[PHLtoNYC]

Some promising PHL updates on the horizon.

A few questions (for the aviation nerds)...
1. It has been said that replacing terminals at PHL is difficult due to land constraints, but LaGuardia (a more constrained airport) was able to do it successfully. Is there another reason why it may be difficult at PHL?

2. Is it possible for PHL to close/knockdown 1 or 2 dated terminals and build 1 new grand terminal in their place? I haven't flown out of PHL in years (just pick people up, which is easy), but for PHL regulars, what are your thoughts on the status/future of the airport?

PHL could need 20 new gates by 2040, and other takeaways from its $556 million budget proposal
https://www.inquirer.com/business/ph...-20240403.html

Work is underway at the airport to receive visitors in 2026 when Philadelphia will be host to FIFA World Cup games, the MLB All-Star Game, and the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence.

To prepare for visitors, improvements will be made including to passenger waiting areas, garages, roadways, and signage, according to the budget proposal. The proposal also noted restroom upgrades, which have been ongoing since 2012. Beyond 2026, the PHL is in the midst of updating the airport’s master plan which began in 2019 and has identified the need for adding around 20 gates by 2040.

“We’re constrained by land and water,” said Api Appulingam, the aviation department’s chief development officer. “When we build, we essentially have to build on top of what we currently have. We’re looking at how do we do that in a strategic manner without interrupting any of our current operations.”

Many terminals at PHL were built in the 1950s and don’t support the needs of passengers, with the exception of Terminal A-West which is built in a modern way, she said. Advance planning will be done in 2027 or 2028 and then move into the designing phase of the facilities.

The aviation department’s prepared testimony identified a gap in nonstop service to Central and South America from PHL and said it’s looking for a carrier to better serve these destinations. The airport also is looking to increase capacity to Asian destinations from Philadelphia.