Queen's Park Politics

[Innsertnamehere]

https://www.thestar.com/politics/lcb...um=Recommended

good article on the LCBO Union's chances in their strike.. it's an uphill battle, I think.

[FrostyMug]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

https://www.thestar.com/politics/lcb...um=Recommended

good article on the LCBO Union's chances in their strike.. it's an uphill battle, I think.

Reg may have a bit of a point but he fails to mention that the LCBO's "profits" support other parts of our system such as health care. By putting the coolers into Roblaws and the like instead of supporting those systems we're paying for Galen's next yacht.

[Loco101]

Ontario under the Ford government appears to be moving towards the ways things are in Quebec in terms of alcoholic beverage sales. The LCBO will continue and will be the only place to get hard liquor and will focus on more specialized wines and beers that private retailers won't sell. I'm okay with that. I don't like how the Beer Store was paid $255 million to end a contract a year early. That was very fishy.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Ontario under the Ford government appears to be moving towards the ways things are in Quebec in terms of alcoholic beverage sales. The LCBO will continue and will be the only place to get hard liquor and will focus on more specialized wines and beers that private retailers won't sell. I'm okay with that. I don't like how the Beer Store was paid $255 million to end a contract a year early. That was very fishy.

The alternative is to wait a year, and even then it's unlikely the province would have gotten off for "free" as the Beer Store still needs to administer the bottle return program and needs some form of compensation for that.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by FrostyMug

Reg may have a bit of a point but he fails to mention that the LCBO's "profits" support other parts of our system such as health care. By putting the coolers into Roblaws and the like instead of supporting those systems we're paying for Galen's next yacht.

The taxes on alcohol are that "profit" and they'll just be collected at different sites.

Convenience of store availability and hours is important.

EDIT: the sale of hard liquor will probably not be allowed at grocers or other retailers, nor wanted by them due to risks. So I think the LCBO will still have a sales niche, and I imagine it will still be involved in the distribution of beer and wines and ciders (and seltzers? I haven't seen them in the grocery stores I frequent, but they're a relatively "new" thing)

[FrostyMug]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

The taxes on alcohol are that "profit" and they'll just be collected at different sites.

The LCBO also has a mark up on every product. That profit (or at least a portion of it) will be lost to those different sites. You're also discounting the cost required to ensure that all those retailers actually remit the taxes they are supposed to. I hope no one believes that tracking and ensuring that those taxes are paid will come without any cost.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by FrostyMug

The LCBO also has a mark up on every product. That profit (or at least a portion of it) will be lost to those different sites. You're also discounting the cost required to ensure that all those retailers actually remit the taxes they are supposed to. I hope no one believes that tracking and ensuring that those taxes are paid will come without any cost.

Mark-up point taken. But re: taxes, would they not simply be processed with the taxes that are paid now on other taxable products? With the liquor-specific taxes included in what the store pays for the inventory?

I will probably start buying direct from the wineries and craft brewers again. I did a lot of that during the lockdown. Living where I do makes it relatively easy, and not everyone has that kind of access, but for me it will make sense.

Regardless, the convenience of having more retail locations with less restrictive hours also makes sense to me. I like the selection offered by most LCBO outlets, but it's an outdated sales model.

[FrostyMug]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Mark-up point taken. But re: taxes, would they not simply be processed with the taxes that are paid now on other taxable products? With the liquor-specific taxes included in what the store pays for the inventory?

I will probably start buying direct from the wineries and craft brewers again. I did a lot of that during the lockdown. Living where I do makes it relatively easy, and not everyone has that kind of access, but for me it will make sense.

Regardless, the convenience of having more retail locations with less restrictive hours also makes sense to me. I like the selection offered by most LCBO outlets, but it's an outdated sales model.

I'd like to think that but generally there is only HST to be rebated on existing products. Alcohol taxes are many and convoluted. There will be more accountants.

Supporting local craft brewers and wineries is a great idea. I'm very confident that my local Loblaws or Walmart is not going to stock those craft brewers or local wineries as they won't move enough volume to justify shelf space in a mass retailer let alone a space restricted corner store.

The LCBO might be outdated and it definitely could be improved but the selection of Ontario wines is outstanding. Same goes for Ontario craft beers for the Beer Store. All those craft brewers get shelf space that they won't see in Loblaws or 7 - 11.

[ScreamingViking]

I've been reading more about it. I'd love to see the projected numbers (and not just the rosy ones the PCs probably have in hand... the range of potential financial impacts is of interest, including the secondary ones)

While I'd still like to see more retail sales of beer, wines, and other alcoholic drinks, the LCBO should still have its place.

That said, I do not trust this government to handle such a transition transparently and honestly, given the way they've "managed" other issues.

[1overcosc]

Regardless of one's opinion on alcohol retailing, the people of this province voted, twice, for the system Ford is introducing. It shouldn't be scrapped at the eleventh hour because of the demands of a union. Public sector unions should not be allowed to decide public policy.

[SteelTown]

Until Doug Ford does something, the homeless population will only increase. Queen's Park has been MIA on this serious issue, affecting all parts of Ontario.



Ontario’s ‘unofficial estimate’ of homeless population is 234,000: documents
The province’s shelter system is 97% full and tens of thousands of new supportive housing units are needed, according to a Housing Ministry document

https://www.thetrillium.ca/news/hous...uments-9341464

The government of Ontario estimates nearly a quarter of a million people — roughly three of every 200 residents — are homeless, according to information contained in a housing ministry document.

The number is about nine times higher than the auditor general’s most recent estimate, and still likely drastically undercounts the true number of people experiencing homelessness in the province, experts say.

Ontario’s “unofficial estimate” of “approximately 234,000 individuals” experiencing homelessness is referred to in the transition binder created by the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing for Associate Housing Minister Vijay Thanigasalam after he was appointed to the cabinet role in June.

The Trillium obtained the transition binder in response to a freedom-of-information request.

The binder doesn’t fully explain how the estimate was calculated. Spokespeople for the municipal affairs and housing minister didn’t respond to a media request that included questions about how this estimate was reached.

[haljackey]

Well you can now get beer at corner stores and the like.

One perk I can share:
I was at Shell yesterday getting gas and saw someone leave the store with beer so I checked it out. I decided to grab a case simply because I could and was asked if I wanted to redeem Air Miles. Not only can you redeem on booze, but you can earn them too and Shell often has great promos running for bonuses. It beats the Aeroplan offers at LCBO by a long shot.

Currently earning Air Miles doesn't apply to lottery, tobacco, gift cards, etc but it does for booze, at least for now. So if you got miles to blow you can redeem them here. If you need to hit a certain limit for a bonus and don't need much fuel, you now have something decent in-store to buy other than overpriced snacks and drinks.

---

Apparently Costco will start selling beer and wine sometime next month. Buck a beer returning perhaps? 100 Kirkland lagers for $100?

[Innsertnamehere]

I'm really interested to see Costco's pricing. Arguably one of the biggest changes with the changes to alcohol sales is that retailers are allowed to set their own prices on beer now - before grocers had to match the LCBO price.

I expect Costco will undercut other retailers on a price of a 48-pack of beer. We'll have to see!

I've heard Costco is doing beer and wine sales but is a bit behind. They are opening a new store in Brantford in early November which I've heard will be the first store to sell alcohol.

[ScreamingViking]

I know people (some are family) who cannot wait to get giant boxes of wine at Costco.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Well you can now get beer at corner stores and the like.

One perk I can share:
I was at Shell yesterday getting gas and saw someone leave the store with beer so I checked it out. I decided to grab a case simply because I could and was asked if I wanted to redeem Air Miles. Not only can you redeem on booze, but you can earn them too and Shell often has great promos running for bonuses. It beats the Aeroplan offers at LCBO by a long shot.

Currently earning Air Miles doesn't apply to lottery, tobacco, gift cards, etc but it does for booze, at least for now. So if you got miles to blow you can redeem them here. If you need to hit a certain limit for a bonus and don't need much fuel, you now have something decent in-store to buy other than overpriced snacks and drinks.

---

Apparently Costco will start selling beer and wine sometime next month. Buck a beer returning perhaps? 100 Kirkland lagers for $100?

There will be a set minimum price and retailed can't charge less than it by law. Quebec has the same thing. It's often referred to as the "floor price."

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I know people (some are family) who cannot wait to get giant boxes of wine at Costco.

Ya for now it's just beer, wine and pre-mixed coolers. In some US states you can buy like 20 year old Kirkland brand Scotch for what we pay here for bottom shelf stuff due to the LCBO floor prices. Their 24 year old Scotch would probably be closer to our 12-15 year prices.

Floor price for a 355ml can of beer is $1, so buck a beer could be a thing if Costco wanted to sell a large quantity to get the economies of scale to work for that price. For example, a local craft brewery near me sells a 200 pack to get their prices down to toonie beers ($400 a case).

Costco even sometimes sell whisky by the barrel. It might cost you like $3.5k USD for it, but I'm sure the price per ml is low and it will last you a long time so you better like it. Since it's in the barrel you can continue to age it too.

Maybe one day we'd get this in Ontario, but that would likely involve another majority for Douggie (who is a teetolder btw).