Future Canadian Skylines

[yaletown_fella]

The only question is which Toronto or Chicago will have more stale proposals 5 years from now.

[craner]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Naw, a booming Chicago won't be able to compete at this rate.

Please elaborate.

[WhipperSnapper]

The rate at which Toronto is currently building.

[WhipperSnapper]

Why would that matter? It doesn't represent anything.

The sheer number of proposals suggests Toronto will have more. That doesn't mean Toronto won't be completely outclassing Chicago in the number of skyscrapers under construction either.

[koops65]

As the editor, it falls to you to change a proposal to a stale proposal, or cancelled... Which ones will get the axe?

[WhipperSnapper]

I don't know if I still want to do that. It's a calculated guess and I'm not Spock.

[caltrane74]

We are currently building 3 - 4 times faster than Chicago. And things are slow in Toronto right now, the demand is still great, so when things tick up we could be back in the 170-200 u/c at any given time in the distant future.

The one thing that gets me is that while Chicago can't build at the same clip as Toronto, they always seem to have at least one supertall UC at any given time. Toronto couldn't get a supertall UC if our lives depended on it.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

The one thing that gets me is that while Chicago can't build at the same clip as Toronto, they always seem to have at least one supertall UC at any given time. Toronto couldn't get a supertall UC if our lives depended on it.

Which just helps Toronto build more towers.

If Tokyo doesn't need a supertall why should Toronto?

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

We are currently building 3 - 4 times faster than Chicago. And things are slow in Toronto right now, the demand is still great, so when things tick up we could be back in the 170-200 u/c at any given time in the distant future.

The one thing that gets me is that while Chicago can't build at the same clip as Toronto, they always seem to have at least one supertall UC at any given time. Toronto could get a supertall UC if our lives depended on it.

We never approached close to 200 high rises under construction during this boom and as long as heights continue to trend upwards, we probably won't see above 150 again.

Chinese are developing skyscrapers and supertalls all across the US and Chicago is no exception. Same will happen here. Once the ice breaks, the flood gates will open. The supertalls in Toronto will come in bunches.

[caltrane74]

I was just giving a range.

[WhipperSnapper]

And it wasn't a reasonable representation

[craner]

Ok, thanks for elaborating Cal & Whip.
I guess what I was asking is why couldn't/can't Chicago boom at the same rate as Toronto ?

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by craner

Ok, thanks for elaborating Cal & Whip.
I guess what I was asking is why couldn't/can't Chicago boom at the same rate as Toronto ?

It's a second tier city in its country and also doesn't function as an immigrant gateway the way NY/LA and Texas operate. Also has a lower international profile than NY/LA/SF/Miami.

Toronto meanwhile is the principal city within its country and Canada has a high immigration rate, which naturally gets an above average level of immigration. The prairie cities and Montreal also get high levels of immigration, but due to the conflation of all the above factors, Toronto stands out in contrast to Chicago among the major RE investment source markets such as China, UAE, India and Russia.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by craner

Ok, thanks for elaborating Cal & Whip.
I guess what I was asking is why couldn't/can't Chicago boom at the same rate as Toronto ?

Toronto's high rise apartment market has always been much larger and population growth is stagnant in Chicago. Office, which plays in their favour, will never accomplished what residential can.

I don't expect the current rate to be continue over a longer term. It could go up or down.

[caltrane74]

Also, a house doesn't cost 1 million on average in Chicago..

That has to help keep the high rise home market active in Toronto..

[TallBob]

Chicago has 140+ million sq. ft. in DT alone, (Loop, Near West, North, Streetervile an East Side). With another 3+ million sq. ft. under construction. True the city's population is stagnant....Suburbs are growing at a manageable pace. And yes the average home in Chicago is almost half of what it is in Toronto!

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by TallBob

Chicago has 140+ million sq. ft. in DT alone, (Loop, Near West, North, Streetervile an East Side). With another 3+ million sq. ft. under construction.

How many sq ft of office are there in downtown Toronto and metro Toronto? Sites that list that sort of thing all seem to require subscription fees.

[WhipperSnapper]

IIRC, 70 million downtown and 170 million total but, it's hardly an apples to apples comparison. We are far more conservative with the use of space and the development of new space hence the greater potential of a massive office boom down the long road.

[WhipperSnapper]

I repeat.. office will never accomplish what residential can. The potential for a massive office boom lies with Toronto too.

[GreaterMontréal]

Montréal 48M downtown and around 90-100M total (depending on the source), 350 million square feet of industrial inventory.