Calgary Roads

[You Need A Thneed]

Country Hills Blvd is now rerouted onto the new lanes that were built, between Metis and 36th Street NE.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Sorry if this seems a bit off topic but I'm seriously wondering about this;

Why are drivers in Calgary so unbelievably rude to cyclists? And why is road rage so common in this city?

Living in the Beltline I ride along 17th Ave almost everyday. As many forumers will know because of endless parked cars there is only one usable travel lane in each direction so for my own safety I ride 1 metre from the car doors which places me in the travel lane. Every time I do this cars will fly by me (occasionally scrapping my bike with their mirrors) and some will just stay behind and lay on their horn and scream obscenities at me.

Just today I was riding home (eastbound) on 17th across from National when a minivan pulls up behind me and lays on the horn. He started screaming obscenities so already being pissed at this point from other close calls i flip him the finger and keep on going. Well this a**hole pulls up next to me and says the standard "get off the road" and demands that I fight him (and BTW this guy had his family in the car with him). He actually turns onto 6 Street and walks over to the corner thinking I'm going to stop! (Of course I just went pass him and kept watching my back until I got off the road).

Of course idiotic drivers are not just in Calgary (I was hit on my bike in Halifax a few years back) but they seem to be much more frequent. I'm wondering what other forumers thoughts are about this extensive road rage? poor drivers traning? underbuilt roads? bad attitude?

Oil-money fueled testosterone monkeys used to small towns is a big problem. There is a definite lack of understanding of cycling here, we are many years behind from a cultural perspective despite infrastructure improvements. It's changing, but painstakenly slowly.

The good news is that cycling is growing far faster in the inner city than any other mode and that drivers will get used to it like they have in more progressive cities. Congestion and traffic will help. the 400-hp Ram trucks that are racing to get every inch are eventually going to run out of room to behave that way. In the inner city anyways. Hopefully not too many cyclists will have to become martyrs to expedite this process.

It is amazing the hate for cyclists though. Its more than just a frustration, its genuine hatred. The intolerance is unbelievable, despite the amazing strides made for other communities and groups in the city in the past 10 years.

Btw, call the police next time. That behaviour is dangerous and unacceptable.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Sorry if this seems a bit off topic but I'm seriously wondering about this;

Why are drivers in Calgary so unbelievably rude to cyclists? And why is road rage so common in this city?

Living in the Beltline I ride along 17th Ave almost everyday. As many forumers will know because of endless parked cars there is only one usable travel lane in each direction so for my own safety I ride 1 metre from the car doors which places me in the travel lane. Every time I do this cars will fly by me (occasionally scrapping my bike with their mirrors) and some will just stay behind and lay on their horn and scream obscenities at me.

Just today I was riding home (eastbound) on 17th across from National when a minivan pulls up behind me and lays on the horn. He started screaming obscenities so already being pissed at this point from other close calls i flip him the finger and keep on going. Well this a**hole pulls up next to me and says the standard "get off the road" and demands that I fight him (and BTW this guy had his family in the car with him). He actually turns onto 6 Street and walks over to the corner thinking I'm going to stop! (Of course I just went pass him and kept watching my back until I got off the road).

Take 15th avenue, it is a much, much more preferable and safer route. Or 14th or 13th for that matter. I bike a lot too, but mostly on the pathways, but I understand the frustration.

However, if somebody was being an ass like this guy, putting me in physical danger and actually got out of their car to pick a fight with me, I would get off my bike and drop the guy.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by MasterG

...

Btw, call the police next time. That behaviour is dangerous and unacceptable.

It's good to hear it's growing its share of the transportation modes.

I didn't call the cops because today was very long and I was already at the point of fustration that I didn't want to deal with them. In Halifax though after my "accident" (definitely not a opps I didn't see you thing) I started carrying my camera around and I would snap photos of license plates.

Originally Posted by fusili

However, if somebody was being an ass like this guy, putting me in physical danger and actually got out of their car to pick a fight with me, I would get off my bike and drop the guy.

It didn't help the guy was 5X larger than me. He seriously looked like he could be a bouncer at Cowboys!

I do use 15 AVE from time to time but the issue with that road is the disregard for parking rules especially at intersections. The lack of visibility at most of the cross roads requires a complete stop. Also most of my destinations are on 17 AVE (I was returning from Shoppers Drug Mart today).

It should be noted that I drive a larger than normal vehicle for work so I'm in no way saying that cyclists are the only road rage targets. A five minute drive down Deerfoot in the afternoon rush will quickly confirm this.

On the flip side though I absolutely love the new 7 ST SW bike boulevard. That is a great connection to the Peace Bridge and river pathways. Hopefully there's a plan to continue the path south under the rail tracks to 10 AVE (MEC).

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

On the flip side though I absolutely love the new 7 ST SW bike boulevard. That is a great connection to the Peace Bridge and river pathways. Hopefully there's a plan to continue the path south under the rail tracks to 10 AVE (MEC).

Fill out the City survey,

http://fluidsurveys.com/s/calgarycen...etwordsurvey1/

they are taking suggestions on locations for more cycle tracks.

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

I do use 15 AVE from time to time but the issue with that road is the disregard for parking rules especially at intersections. The lack of visibility at most of the cross roads requires a complete stop.

This is a big problem for motorists too. When I occasionally drive through the Beltline, I feel like I can't see any traffic as I leave an intersection. I drive a smaller, slightly lower to the ground car so visibility can be very tricky. I nose out very, very slowly and even then can't feel completely comfortable due to cars blocking my vision.

[mwalker_mw]

I'm a strong believer that a cyclist should either ride specifically in the parking lane where there is adequate room or completely take the traffic lane when there is not. Riding half-in half-out (and frequently switching back and forth) just causes confusion for everybody. As a cyclist one has the right to fully occupy a lane of traffic - where vehicles or other obstacles make safe travel in the parking lane impossible it would be better for everyone if all cyclists would do this consistently (signalling properly when doing so).

I suspect there are far fewer drivers willing to drive straight through a cyclist centred in the lane in front of them than the number who are willing to pass way to closely to one riding on the side. On the other hand I do see a number of cyclists who put themselves in this situation by riding up beside traffic queuing at a light leaving the motorist unaware there is a cyclist who has snuck up in the 12" between them and the curb on their right side.

The other side of this is the cyclist's responsibility to be making the most efficient use of that traffic lane while they are occupying it - peddling at a brisk pace and leaving it promptly when it becomes safe to do so. Too many "I'm so cool" types ambling about in traffic with no safety gear on cruiser bicycles completely ill equipped for moving and maneuvering in any sort of brisk manner.

I don't cycle as much as I'd like anymore and that is at least partly due to the high risk of becoming roadkill in this city.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by mwalker_mw

I'm a strong believer that a cyclist should either ride specifically in the parking lane where there is adequate room or completely take the traffic lane when there is not. Riding half-in half-out (and frequently switching back and forth) just causes confusion for everybody. As a cyclist one has the right to fully occupy a lane of traffic - where vehicles or other obstacles make safe travel in the parking lane impossible it would be better for everyone if all cyclists would do this consistently (signalling properly when doing so).

I suspect there are far fewer drivers willing to drive straight through a cyclist centred in the lane in front of them than the number who are willing to pass way to closely to one riding on the side. On the other hand I do see a number of cyclists who put themselves in this situation by riding up beside traffic queuing at a light leaving the motorist unaware there is a cyclist who has snuck up in the 12" between them and the curb on their right side.

The other side of this is the cyclist's responsibility to be making the most efficient use of that traffic lane while they are occupying it - peddling at a brisk pace and leaving it promptly when it becomes safe to do so. Too many "I'm so cool" types ambling about in traffic with no safety gear on cruiser bicycles completely ill equipped for moving and maneuvering in any sort of brisk manner.

I don't cycle as much as I'd like anymore and that is at least partly due to the high risk of becoming roadkill in this city.

Simple, painted bike-lanes can solve all the problems you listed. A reminder that not all cyclists are the 50km/h carbon fibre types. Some will saunter (i.e. the cool types), some are old, some are young and some are not in a hurry. A typically bike is 15 - 25 km/h and cars have to get used to that until dedicated infrastructure is built like bike lanes. Separated is even better, albeit probably more cost-effective in only tight high-collision areas with lots of traffic and speed (i.e. 7th street).

I am a cyclist you describe that rides straight at speed in a travel lane where I have to. It sometimes stops cars from passing or who don't mind going 20 - 30 km/h, however on a bike you are put in risk but jerks who get extra mad because passing you is harder now. All my close calls have been when I take up the lane and someone gets frustrated they can't go 50km/h in the beltline on streets like 15th ave so they try to pass me anyways at full speed when there is no room.

Really what it will take is a cultural shift to thinking cars aren't supposed to go 50km/h in the beltline (except maybe 11th and 12th). There are too many people, pedestrians, cyclists and cars to drive faster than 20 - 40 safely on the back roads.

The douches acting aggressively around bikes will eventually lose out, the Beltline increases to densify and that kind of recklessness will no longer be possible given increasing congestion of cycling and peds.

[mersar]

Construction has begun as of this past weekend on two small 'lets make 14th Street SW move a bit better in the rush hour' projects. Re-designing the intersection at Heritage (new longer turn lanes into the park and a dual left onto east bound Heritage) and turning the current double left turn from 90th onto northbound 14th into a triple left turn (probably the only one in the city except maybe somewhere downtown). Scheduled for completion in late October.

14th and 90th

14th and Heritage

Maps thanks for Alderman Pincott's Ward 11 website.

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by Jimby

^ You're lucky to be alive! I would never ride my bike down 17th Ave. I don't even want to drive my car along there!
From about 9 St to 13 St SW I ride down the alley on the south side of 17th and it is clear sailing with few hassles or killer drivers.

Yeah, same here. I go out of my way to avoid driving on 17th. I'd sooner walk the entire length of it. Too many pedestrians staring at their phones, inattentive drivers, and cyclists who seem to have a death wish. I take a lot of care when passing cyclists, but nothing is going to save your ass if you swerve right in front of my Jeep...

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Why are drivers in Calgary so unbelievably rude to cyclists? And why is road rage so common in this city?

Drivers are just plain rude, not just to cyclists but to everyone. This City has a 'me first' attitude that has found it's way into many parts of life including driving (and I include cyclists in this as well, they are not immune). There is a complete lack of either knowledge or caring when it comes to driving in this City. I see so many people who would gladly run over their grandma if it would get them 10 seconds ahead in traffic.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by MasterG

Simple, painted bike-lanes can solve all the problems you listed. A reminder that not all cyclists are the 50km/h carbon fibre types. Some will saunter (i.e. the cool types), some are old, some are young and some are not in a hurry. A typically bike is 15 - 25 km/h and cars have to get used to that until dedicated infrastructure is built like bike lanes. Separated is even better, albeit probably more cost-effective in only tight high-collision areas with lots of traffic and speed (i.e. 7th street).

I am a cyclist you describe that rides straight at speed in a travel lane where I have to. It sometimes stops cars from passing or who don't mind going 20 - 30 km/h, however on a bike you are put in risk but jerks who get extra mad because passing you is harder now. All my close calls have been when I take up the lane and someone gets frustrated they can't go 50km/h in the beltline on streets like 15th ave so they try to pass me anyways at full speed when there is no room.

Really what it will take is a cultural shift to thinking cars aren't supposed to go 50km/h in the beltline (except maybe 11th and 12th). There are too many people, pedestrians, cyclists and cars to drive faster than 20 - 40 safely on the back roads.

The douches acting aggressively around bikes will eventually lose out, the Beltline increases to densify and that kind of recklessness will no longer be possible given increasing congestion of cycling and peds.

I want a 50km Carbon Fiber bike!! I got a stupid Kona Dew right now, it does the trick, but I don't think anyone really goes that fast cycling on city roads. I would say 25km is pretty fast for street cycling. I can really cook it on a straight, flat segment, but that is usually on a highway or on the path. It is hard to get up to speed cycling in the city because of all the starting/stopping. Hell, even professional cyclists only average about 40km on a race (they will get up to 70km on a long flat portion, but that is absolutely insane in my opinion). The fastest I've gone on a none-downhill is probably about 40km, and that was with a mean tailwind and a long flat segment.

I agree about the cycling lanes though. I am a pretty confident street cyclist, and I will go on most secondary roads, but there are areas where we just need cycle lanes and painted lanes are probably the best start.

[MalcolmTucker]

Kona Dews are pretty sweet. But on flat roads hitting anything above 40 km/h is only possible for a short burst. Dews are pretty indestructible. Have almost 5000 km on mine and still on the original tubes.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Sorry if this seems a bit off topic but I'm seriously wondering about this;

Why are drivers in Calgary so unbelievably rude to cyclists?

Comparisons between Calgary and Halifax WRT cyclists don't result in a lot of comparable roads. For example; Halifax's comparable to 17th Avenue is perhaps Quinpool Rd. for about 4 blocks with about quarter of the traffic problems with alternatives (Pepperelll and Shirley) that are reasonably easy to handle. 17th Avenue is 12 blocks long and does not have a ready available detour (10th Avenue is the closest viable alternative).

I do however see rudeness on both sides for the driver cyclist equation. The drivers are rude in their reaction to cyclists presence, but the cyclist is also rude in putting their desires ahead of others needs for efficient transport (this being the cyclist knowly causes harm to others on the road by slowing down traffic and forcing others to make accomodations). In other cities this is not a major issue because the amount of motorist harm is infrequent enough that it is tolerable for the motorist.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by Cage

Comparisons between Calgary and Halifax WRT cyclists don't result in a lot of comparable roads. For example; Halifax's comparable to 17th Avenue is perhaps Quinpool Rd. for about 4 blocks with about quarter of the traffic problems with alternatives (Pepperelll and Shirley) that are reasonably easy to handle. 17th Avenue is 12 blocks long and does not have a ready available detour (10th Avenue is the closest viable alternative).

I do however see rudeness on both sides for the driver cyclist equation. The drivers are rude in their reaction to cyclists presence, but the cyclist is also rude in putting their desires ahead of others needs for efficient transport (this being the cyclist knowly causes harm to others on the road by slowing down traffic and forcing others to make accomodations). In other cities this is not a major issue because the amount of motorist harm is infrequent enough that it is tolerable for the motorist.

I largely agree. The solution is dedicated road space for cyclists. Calgary is falling way behind on cycling infrastructure compared to most of North America. 7th street cycletrack is a start, but it is expensive and only is needed in specific cooridors downtown. So much would be accomplished with painted lines throughout the Beltline. Hell, 11th and 12th are wide enough for one each without even losing any auto-lanes. Same goes with 10th ave (both directions).

17th Ave westbound really could fit one too, its too narrow for 2 travel + parking, its really a 2.5 lane road pretending to fit 3 lanes of cars.

There really needs to be a whole-hearted effort for the inner city to recieve bike lanes. The numbers are already there to justify lanes throughout, they would only grow once people actually feel safe on a bike.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Kona Dews are pretty sweet. But on flat roads hitting anything above 40 km/h is only possible for a short burst. Dews are pretty indestructible. Have almost 5000 km on mine and still on the original tubes.

Really? I've popped at least 5 tubes on mine now. I think each time its been the rear tube too. Damn. It is a pretty sturdy bike though.

They are pretty good for a hybrid, but I want a nice carbon fibre road bike next year for the Ride to Conquer Cancer. I did it this year and two years ago on the Kona. This year I did really well, but I would get passed on the flats by my friends on road bikes. But then I would crush them on the hills. LOL.


Maybe not the right thread for this, but anyone have recommendations on a good entry-level road bike? I am looking at sub $1500, and I need a big frame (62cm).

[MalcolmTucker]

Painted lanes aren't any safer than no lanes. But is the perception of safety worth it?

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Painted lanes aren't any safer than no lanes. But is the perception of safety worth it?

They do improve ridership though, significantly. More cycling = more awareness and less accidents in the long run.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Drivers on any stretch like 17th are going to be rude to cyclists just as they are rude to other drivers. It's not made for cycling. If you persist in cycling on it, you're going to have problems. Same as on any similar road in any city.

I've mentioned that I'll take 17th from 14 to 11 St but I learned my lesson on one attempt to head the opposite direction. Never again. Bike down a parallel street or walk. Has NOTHING to do with Calgary drivers being ruder than those in other cities.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by fusili

Really? I've popped at least 5 tubes on mine now. I think each time its been the rear tube too. Damn. It is a pretty sturdy bike though.

They are pretty good for a hybrid, but I want a nice carbon fibre road bike next year for the Ride to Conquer Cancer. I did it this year and two years ago on the Kona. This year I did really well, but I would get passed on the flats by my friends on road bikes. But then I would crush them on the hills. LOL.


Maybe not the right thread for this, but anyone have recommendations on a good entry-level road bike? I am looking at sub $1500, and I need a big frame (62cm).

You should start a Calgary bike thread, I'd be interested in the conversation.