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  #3821  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by moorhosj1 View Post
If you replace "CTU/CPS" with "FOP/CPD" you would have a nice summary of the other side of the debate, in regards to Vallas. For me, Vallas/Johnson in the run-off was the worst possible outcome.
It could have been worse (Willie Wilson).
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  #3822  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 12:32 AM
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Oh my

This map is very concerning.

The far north white lakefront liberals went Johnson.

Not a good sign for Vallas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_C..._recolored.svg




This is very worrisome. I think Vallas can get some of Garcia's votes, He will need them desperately really, but what is going on with Johnson's hold on the north lakefront? They are not even black majority areas.

What is his attraction for him? Who are these voters and why? Vallas will need to take at least a few north lakefront wards regardless of if it is even by a few votes, he needs it, it's a populus area. 1, 33, 49, 48, 46, 40 and 47 I'm looking at you! Perhaps all Vallas needs is Garcia's wards, I hope that to be the case. But I expect Johnson to take most of Lightfoot's votes in the south and west sides sadly on skin color alone. If the north shore liberals do not change their vote, I sadly cannot see Valllas getting 50.01% of the total vote unless the Hispanic vote goes all in and with a large turnout which doesn't seem like it's going to happen.



That said Vallas really has some strong wards but again, they will need to turn out hugely... If Vallas can get 25% of Lightfoot's vote that would be enough
But I see it hard to crack even 12%. This is going to be a real battle and I hope real efforts from the business community to throw millions at Vallas will pay off.


This is a very important Chicago election and in general Illinois by default a very important election. Even a very important election nationally.

Last edited by bnk; Mar 2, 2023 at 1:36 AM.
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  #3823  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 12:38 AM
Mr. Chicago Mr. Chicago is offline
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Mr. Chicago here,
Here to speak to you as a voice from the wilderness. Chicago the politics now are those of the nickel and dime variety. THINK BIG. Do not disappoint D. Burnham. Someone out there ,Vallas or Johnson, anybody, consider the following suggestions:

1)Police/neighborhood contracts. Let both the police and the
neighborhood or wards meet to consider and agree on the best
methods to bring safety to the area. Periodic meetings
and review of progress with changes will maintain good ward /
police relations

2) A ten billion dollar line of credit from the federal government- a
figure I through out just for the sake of discussion. This line of
credit could be used to back a bond issue which would allow
the city to lower taxes- all taxes - by 25 percent. ( Again a
figure just for discussion)

3) A business plan for Chicago. There must be a business round
table in the city. With the tax breaks in place let business and
the city plan to make Chicago a profitable venture,

4) City sponsored companies . This idea is not new . I believe
Cleveland has such a program. I might add that mayor's
investment fund for the South and West side rings a familiar
tone to this plan.

5) Schools. Charter schools -some work some do not. As a
retired teacher I want to say it is not fair to put students
through some kind of experiment just to break up the union.
I recall many years ago Daley Jr. experimented with the idea
of school autonomy, DISASTER- power struggle by different
groups to control the school. Daley Jr. then took direct
control Yet autonomy has some benefits. Just let the
teachers in as as part of an administration that is divided
between city, school and parents- the latter being elected
from the local population

6)Security, No not on police matters again but for people to
feel secure that their home will be their castle, How many
more homes will need to be boarded up and neighborhoods
ruined before we understand that contributes to the decline
land values and ultimately in tax revenues. The city with the
bond issue should buy up these mortgages but collect the
payments as rent on the houses. Yes more details to follow.



Do not dissmiss these ideas outright. Just consider the possibilities
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  #3824  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 12:50 AM
Halsted & Villagio Halsted & Villagio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnk View Post
Oh my

This map is very concerning.

The far north white lakefront liberals went Johnson.

Not a good sign for Vallas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_C..._recolored.svg




This is very worrisome. I think Vallas can get some of Garcia's votes, He will need them desperately really, but what is going on with Johnson's hold on the north lakefront? They are not even black majority areas.

What is his attraction for him? Who are these voters and why?



That said Vallas really has some strong wards but again, they will need to turn out hugely...
Look at what you wrote…. namely, quote “they are not even black majority areas”… “what is his attraction for him (them)”.

So you are essentially saying that the only thing that could attract them is someone of the same/similar race?! And that they could not possibly be attracted to this man for any other reason other than race?!

Smh at the pure ignorance (and latent racism) of your post
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  #3825  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnk View Post
Oh my

This map is very concerning.

The far north white lakefront liberals went Johnson.

Not a good sign for Vallas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_C..._recolored.svg




This is very worrisome. I think Vallas can get some of Garcia's votes, He will need them desperately really, but what is going on with Johnson's hold on the north lakefront? They are not even black majority areas.

What is his attraction for him? Who are these voters and why?



That said Vallas really has some strong wards but again, they will need to turn out hugely... If Vallas can get 25% of Lightfoot's vote that would be enough
But I see it hard to crack even 12%. This is going to be a real battle and I hope real efforts from the business community to throw millions at Vallas will pay off.


This is a very important Chicago and in general Illinois by default a very important election. Even a very important election nationally.
I suspect the areas that voted in larger percentages for Johnson are most likely large concentrations of CPS teachers/families....mostly anecdotal because I know 5 CPS teacher friends/acquaintances in those wards (48th and 49th, specifically).

While Vallas voters are relatively spread out all over the city based on the map, they still conform to general geographic divides based on race; hispanic-american majority populations more for Garcia, while majority african-american wards voted for Lightfoot. Johnson is the outlier, but even then, his support was not as robust as the other candidates in the wards they won.

I don't understand Johnson's appeal, other than he's young.
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  #3826  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 1:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halsted & Villagio View Post
Look at what you wrote…. namely, quote “they are not even black majority areas”… “what is his attraction for him (them)”.

So you are essentially saying that the only thing that could attract them is someone of the same/similar race?! And that they could not possibly be attracted to this man for any other reason other than race?!

Smh at the pure ignorance (and latent racism) of your post
Please

We all know how voting blocks are determined esp in Chicago and Cook County

It's based on political party and outside of political party race is a major factor,

It's not racist to state the lay of the land IMO while you might think so, I do not, I understand historically how groups of any race can vote for their own preference against their own interests be them white, black, or neon purple.

Whites do this constantly in national POTUS elections. They vote against their own interests commonly as do minorities in Chicago and cook county. It's not novel.
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  #3827  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 1:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Interesting to see the map for the primary here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_C..._recolored.svg

My reading: Lightfoot has African American support, Garcia from Latinos. Vallas won the affluent downtown vote as well as the WWC vote. Johnson won most of the progressive parts of the North Side.

Johnson second with African Americans and Vallas strong with Latinos.
For her first (and apparently only) term Lightfoot was elected by a comfortable margin, sweeping the affluent, liberal lakefront neighborhoods. She was also considered quite business friendly, and had the establishment support. The fact that she finished third is pretty embarrassing.

At first glance, Vallas appears to be the favorite, but maybe not. There were eight candidates in the primary, all far to the left of Vallas. I assume Johnson picks up most of that support. Could be a good race.
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  #3828  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 1:28 AM
Kngkyle Kngkyle is offline
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Johnson is progressive. The progressive base is young and predominately white. Blacks and hispanics are far more centrist than progressives which is why they basically split between Lightfoot, Vallas, and Chuy... all of whom are fairly middle of the road Democrats. I don't think race plays as big of a part in this as you think it does...

... and I also think Vallas wins the runoff by a 20-point margin for being the more centrist of the two choices.
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  #3829  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 1:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
Johnson is progressive. The progressive base is young and predominately white. Blacks and hispanics are far more centrist than progressives which is why they basically split between Lightfoot, Vallas, and Chuy... all of whom are fairly middle of the road Democrats. I don't think race plays as big of a part in this as you think it does...

... and I also think Vallas wins the runoff by a 20-point margin for being the more centrist of the two choices.
If true, I find that reassuring.

but 20 points is a lot.


5 points would be more than enough and a positive outcome.
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  #3830  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 2:01 AM
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Brandon Johnson will probably be the next mayor.

He ran second or third (behind Wilson) in the majority of precincts Lightfoot won. He ran second in a lot of the SW precincts Chuy carried. Vallas's turnout was extremely poor in black precincts (especially on the west side), and Johnson was the second vote-getter in many of the precincts he narrowily won.

Johnson will consolidate the black vote and turn out voters on the lakefront, just like Lightfoot did four years ago but to a lesser extent.
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  #3831  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 2:47 AM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
Johnson is progressive. The progressive base is young and predominately white. Blacks and hispanics are far more centrist than progressives which is why they basically split between Lightfoot, Vallas, and Chuy... all of whom are fairly middle of the road Democrats. I don't think race plays as big of a part in this as you think it does...

... and I also think Vallas wins the runoff by a 20-point margin for being the more centrist of the two choices.
I agree with this take. There's probably a ton of people across those LL wards that are looking at Johnson right now with caution. He seems a little to pro "Defund the Police", and I have to wonder how much that message resonates with these neighborhoods ravaged with crime. I could be totally wrong, and I am making some serious assumptions, but if Johnson was to sweep the wards LL won..... Wouldn't he have won them in this first round?

LL had major issues, but she wasn't very pro "Defund the Police". She also was heavy on the S-by-SW initiative. Maybe to those voters, she was the least worst choice on the ballot whereas some voters saw Vallas as too heavy on the police.

It does make for an interesting prediction. Easy to see how Vallas wins the first round with a split vote, but when you look at that map, it gets much more complicated trying to predict the next round. Then again, maybe some of the non-Johnson votes will gravitate towards Vallas across the Northern wards. I would say it's way too early yet to say for sure.

Time will tell..... My bet is with a couple of debates and proper messaging, Vallas will easily demonstrate why he's the better of the two candidates, and it will carry him across the finish line.
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  #3832  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 2:52 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by bnk View Post
Is it possible Garcia's voters will gravitate to Vallas in a majority? Who will get the majority of the Hispanic vote? Who did the diverse Asian voters choose? Johnson is going to try to get most of the black vote but they are not a majority. Are there blocks of white voters attracted to Johnson?

The business group and their monies are clearly backing Vallas for good reason.how it sw

Turnout is going to be very important. Every Vallas voter has to go out and vote again preferably twice. Vallas needs about 15% more votes, but from whom the most?
There was a poll recently which was very favorable to Johnson, but showed that the 2nd choice of Chuy voters was split pretty evenly between Vallas and Johnson. There is a growing more moderate and even right wing Latino base in the country. I don't know how it swings in Chicago, but I think that a lot of people who assume "because they're minorities, they're in the bag for Johnson" are behind on some of these things. And many Willie Wilson voters will probably end up voting for Vallas IMO. Some Lightfoot voters could also go either way, I think.

For example, in the 22nd ward which is Little Village between Cermak, I-55, Kedzie/Homan, and a little west of Kilbourn, 9 of the 19 precincts had Vallas coming in 2nd place to Chuy while 1 had Lightfoot winning, and another 2 with Lightfoot coming in 2nd. Overall, Vallas beat Johnson is this ward 630 to 504. And then in Ward 12, which is Brighton Park (and maybe a little McKinley Park), Vallas actually beat Johnson in all 22 precincts with Vallas actually winning 3 of them. Chuy had 45% of the vote in this ward, while Vallas had almost 29% and Johnson had just over 13.5%. So if those who voted for Chuy show up to vote again, things could swing in ways that some people might not expect.

What will be more interesting to see is how LL voters vote.
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Last edited by marothisu; Mar 2, 2023 at 3:24 AM.
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  #3833  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 3:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
I’ve never been this concerned about a local election or this distrusting of the candidate pool.

I’m worried and don’t know what’s next on the horizon. I’ve seen my real estate value nearly flat line. My prop taxes increased 25% in the last 6 years, cost of managing a building in this city has skyrocketed to the point where I’ve had to take on that responsibility myself and I do think it’s tied to current issues. level of public services seems eroded and further burdened by expiration of federal funds. I realize crime is bad everywhere, but our reputation the most damaged nationwide. Morale and civic pride seem lower than ever among everyone I talk to. Feeling burned out and concerned. I wish there was a candidate to be excited about this election with more mechanical solutions vs long term aspirations that will do nothing to repair urgent problems
Which is why of the 2, I think Vallas has more promise than Johnson on this. People have seen me do tons of analysis on crime. I've done it for various outlets too and there is a lot of bullshit out there. For example, the amount of robbery in the city thru 2/22 is nearly 20% lower than it was in 2013, which was one of the lowest years for crime at the time since 1965. The amount in Near North Side + The Loop + Lakeview + Lincoln Park + Uptown + Lincoln Square + North Center + Edgewater this year is literally only 1 more than the same time period in 2019 had, and nearly 25% lower than what it was in 2013. There is also some truth that between mid 2020 and mid 2022, there was an uptick in shootings downtown, increase of robberies in West Town, etc. Some other parts of town like the north side didn't see much change from before really, though.

Yet people even in these areas don't talk about it like that. They're convinced that it's just incredibly worse than it's ever been when nothing is further from the truth. But perception matters a lot and they've convinced a whole lot of people and the national media that even in these areas it's the worst ever. And people/business who are looking at the city will look at these stories and start worrying. I'm not talking about your outlier who holds onto stereotypes for 30 years. A lot of "regular" people look into that and if all they see is negative news, it can swing some people to not consider Chicago. Obviously many will - Chicago continues to be where many move to, but it could be even more and less people could leave.

Vallas could end up like a Giuliani where everyone gives him credit for reducing crime, when it was actually already reducing before that. Chicago's homicides and shootings have been reducing for many months now. We're currently almost 15% lower for homicides than a year ago, and about 8.5% lower than 2018. That's not the perception though. People think murders are still increasing in the city. Perception matters a ton.

The sooner Chicago can get off the national psyche for crime perception (whether real, imagined, or a combination of both), the better. And Vallas I believe can do that. Whether homicides and shootings continue to come down under his watch, and reduce other types of crime is a different story. I do agree with him that feeling safe in your city literally everywhere is important. When I lived in NYC, there was hardly any areas I ever felt unsafe in. I'd say a good 75% of Chicago to me is like that, but 25% is by far worse than anywhere in NYC and it's not even close. Nobody should feel unsafe anywhere they are (unless they're being a racist asshole - that's a completely different story).


On the flip side, we need to see some actual changes in crime. And that starts with addressing the root causes. But it also doesn't mean you cut off a police force fast. It'll take years and years to fix some of these issues. I don't really understand people who see this in black and white. You need both a short and long term plan on how you are going to get there. Everyone seems to either have a short term plan, or a long term plan. Not both.
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  #3834  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 3:41 AM
Halsted & Villagio Halsted & Villagio is offline
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Originally Posted by bnk View Post
Please

We all know how voting blocks are determined esp in Chicago and Cook County

It's based on political party and outside of political party race is a major factor,

It's not racist to state the lay of the land IMO while you might think so, I do not, I understand historically how groups of any race can vote for their own preference against their own interests be them white, black, or neon purple.

Whites do this constantly in national POTUS elections. They vote against their own interests commonly as do minorities in Chicago and cook county. It's not novel.
I think you are speaking for yourself... and for fellow voters like yourself who vote strictly based upon race. But don't put the voters of the Northshore/northside in a box like that. I have been around many on the northside/shore who are highly enlightened, intelligent people who do not see color first. They vote based upon the issues primarily. Could that be what's going on here with this voting block? And why should that be such a shock. That is the way it should be.

You chose to make this about race... your words... not mine. Again, look at what you wrote. You literally wrote that you can't see what they can see in this black man who is running for mayor, because they do not share the same race as him. It is hard to get more ignorant than that.

Where would the world be if people only supported their own race? Or if people only liked people of their own race? Or if people only voted for people of their own race? Or gave jobs to people of their own race? etc., etc.

Listen, I do not want to derail this thread by talking about race exhaustively. But since you went there, I called you on it. But then you had the audacity to double down on what was clearly an ignorant post. So yeah, you will get a retort from me. But my retorts only go so far. I don't believe in going over and over things with people who simply are incapable of getting it.
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  #3835  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 3:47 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by Halsted & Villagio View Post
I think you are speaking for yourself... and for fellow voters like yourself who vote strictly based upon race. But don't put the voters of the Northshore/northside in a box like that. I have been around many on the northside/shore who are highly enlightened, intelligent people who do not see color first. They vote based upon the issues primarily. Could that be what's going on here with this voting block? And why should that be such a shock. That is the way it should be.

You chose to make this about race... your words... not mine. Again, look at what you wrote. You literally wrote that you can't see what they can see in this black man who is running for mayor, because they do not share the same race as him. It is hard to get more ignorant than that.

Where would the world be if people only supported their own race? Or if people only liked people of their own race? Or if people only voted for people of their own race? Or gave jobs to people of their own race? etc., etc.

Listen, I do not want to derail this thread by talking about race exhaustively. But since you went there, I called you on it. But then you had the audacity to double down on what was clearly an ignorant post. So yeah, you will get a retort from me. But my retorts only go so far. I don't believe in going over and over things with people who simply are incapable of getting it.
+1 million. I will never understand people who vote based on the race of someone. Kind of sad that it has to come down to it.
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  #3836  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 4:06 AM
Halsted & Villagio Halsted & Villagio is offline
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+1 million. I will never understand people who vote based on the race of someone. Kind of sad that it has to come down to it.
I agree Marothisu. We have to grab a beer one day. But yeah, I am black and I am leaning Vallas. Race has never been a factor for me.
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  #3837  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 4:48 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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I agree Marothisu. We have to grab a beer one day. But yeah, I am black and I am leaning Vallas. Race has never been a factor for me.
Right on.

I'm curious who you voted for (don't have to say if you sint want). I feel like a good percentage of Wilson voters will probably go for Vallas. I also feel that some "older" Lightfoot and Chuy voters will probably too.

Reminds me of discussions with my mom too. My parents want to college in the late 60s. My mom went to school not far from DC and went to a lot of Civil Rights marches. Described herself as very progressive and "changing everything to us back then was somehow really easy. We had no understanding yet of how complex things can really get." While she is still that socially both my parents turned more fiscally moderate or conservative. They would never vote for someone who is vile on social issues, but many people like them who are older and once upon a time leaned very progressive would most likely go Vallas over Johnson. Nobody should discredit them who may have originally gone for LL or Chuy.
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  #3838  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 1:13 PM
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looking good for brandon, nice turn of events for chicago

vallas is such a tool lol
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  #3839  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 2:56 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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looking good for brandon, nice turn of events for chicago

vallas is such a tool lol
No - Not nice turn of events for Chicago if Brandon Johnson wins.
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  #3840  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 3:19 PM
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Originally Posted by UPChicago View Post
Brandon Johnson will probably be the next mayor.

He ran second or third (behind Wilson) in the majority of precincts Lightfoot won. He ran second in a lot of the SW precincts Chuy carried. Vallas's turnout was extremely poor in black precincts (especially on the west side), and Johnson was the second vote-getter in many of the precincts he narrowily won.

Johnson will consolidate the black vote and turn out voters on the lakefront, just like Lightfoot did four years ago but to a lesser extent.
Given how others in this thread have probably more accurately assessed Johnson's base and who he may attract leading to the runoff, I think this is a stretch.
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