Metro Vancouver Road Infrastructure Discussion

[CBeats]

Originally Posted by flipper316

All because of one accident.

Yeah I was stuck in this today, it was terrible. Traffic was actually backed up from the Second Narrows Bridge all the way to the Lions Gate Bridge on Marine Dr/3rd/Main St. It was literally light or dark red across the entire region - I've almost never seen that before. It took an hour by bus to get from Capilano Mall to the SeaBus.

...and all because of one accident on the Second Narrows. No fun! Cars don't work, busses are stuck too (not nearly enough bus lanes on the NS) - the only solution is to bike!

[WarrenC12]

Tolls would solve the problem.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Tolls would solve the problem.

Not without a reasonable alternative to get to work/the port/the ferries/ski hills/Whistler/etc. from the eastern valley. Port Mann dropped with tolls because lots of people went Pattullo.

Anyone with any brains is avoiding driving on the north shore between 3pm-6pm as much as possible already so I can't see tolls having a big impact.

edit: here's what dark maroon on Google Maps looks like IRL if you haven't experienced it (Low Level road - which was inexplicably kept at one lane when recently renovated - eastbound): https://twitter.com/sential/status/941119323505963008

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Port Mann dropped with tolls because lots of people went Pattullo.

Not really. It was mostly just partisan populist BS.

Pattullo traffic only dropped by about 7% last time I checked. Port Mann and Golden Ear on the other hand had more than 25% increases.

The toll elimination essentially induced a lot of traffic. I'd support tolls on the Second Narrows and Lions Gate if they would do a 3rd crossing.

[Pinion]

Port Mann numbers when they added tolls matters more. It went down 10-13%, with a free alternative. I'd expect single digit difference on Ironworkers.

Almost everyone on the north shore would support a third crossing with tolls at this point I think. Traffic has become an overwhelming part of our lives.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Port Mann numbers when they added tolls matters more. It went down 10-13%, with a free alternative. I'd expect single digit difference on Ironworkers.

Almost everyone on the north shore would support a third crossing with tolls at this point I think. Traffic has become an overwhelming part of our lives.

Would you support tolls on the 1st and 2nd narrows if 100% of the revenue went towards skytrain to the north shore?

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by CBeats

Yeah I was stuck in this today, it was terrible. Traffic was actually backed up from the Second Narrows Bridge all the way to the Lions Gate Bridge on Marine Dr/3rd/Main St. It was literally light or dark red across the entire region - I've almost never seen that before. It took an hour by bus to get from Capilano Mall to the SeaBus.

...and all because of one accident on the Second Narrows. No fun! Cars don't work, busses are stuck too (not nearly enough bus lanes on the NS) - the only solution is to bike!

Just like Robertson wants us to do.

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Would you support tolls on the 1st and 2nd narrows if 100% of the revenue went towards skytrain to the north shore?

Yes, I would, although it would have to be Skytrain for the North Shore, not just to it.

This year the traffic has definitely become far worse, and the Christmas season just exacerbates it. Unfortunately the "just one accident" thing is a 2-3 times per week occurance, so that map Pinion posted is indeed the new normal.

Originally Posted by flipper316

Just like Robertson wants us to do.

lol ya. Except thats a little difficult for contractors with tools and steel toes from from coming Coquitlam/Maple Ridge/Surrey/Langley. Hell that'd be difficult to do even within the North Shore.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Pinion

And you brought it up to try to discredit me, which is a dick move.

Yeah, you're probably right - I apologize.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Would you support tolls on the 1st and 2nd narrows if 100% of the revenue went towards skytrain to the north shore?

Yes, but as wrenegade said, it would have to be for us too. i.e. an inlet crossing between Park Royal and Lonsdale, and east-west service along the coast between Park Royal and Phibbs.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Yeah, you're probably right - I apologize.

That takes guts and I appreciate it.

[flipper316]

http://tricitynews.com/news/big-buck...ght-1.23123783

[Metro-One]

So looking at the link above, this is quite the juicy railway / highway Christmas wish list.

How many of these projects do you think are actually serious and have a real chance of being built before 2030?

projects1 by Ian, on Flickr

A close up of some of the better proposals:

Projects2 by Ian, on Flickr

So, interesting highlights:

Tilbury / 80th street Interchange

Plywood & Grace Road Interchange

So, does this mean that the SFPR will become full controlled access freeway from the Pattullo Bridge west? (Also wonder why they did not include the Sunbury Interchange project, or is that completely separate from this program?).

Highway 91 six-laning

Allen Way Interchange

Harris Road Underpass (been needed for decades in Pitt Meadows)

Brunette Interchange Upgrades (so maybe this project will still proceed in some form?)

Also the have noted 6-laning out to Abbotsford, so hopefully the NDP will reverse their decision on stopping that program now that other parties are interested in that project?)

Also absent is the Alex Fraser counter flow (again, maybe because this project is already proceeding?)

They included the Pattullo Bridge though, wonder what that means.

[Pinion]

For Mountain Hwy underpass do they mean the one south of Main Street (north van) for going under the rail line? Not sure what's wrong with that one. Too low?

[forouhar]

Originally Posted by Pinion

For Mountain Hwy underpass do they mean the one south of Main Street (north van) for going under the rail line? Not sure what's wrong with that one. Too low?

Yeah, that's what I'd imagine it referring to. Maybe its current configuration restricts the type of traffic that can access LynnTerm?

The south shore PoV upgrades are pretty likely in combination with the Centerm expansion plans.

I can't see upgrades happening along the New Westminster sub. CN isn't going to lift a finger unless Burnaby pitches in (which is unlikely). The whistle cessations noted in the map have already happened (Begbie Street and Front Street); the other whistle crossings near Kruger Paper and Vinpac are far-removed enough from residences so it doesn't really matter. Additionally, none of the crossings west of Begbie have AWD's aside from Wiggin's Street. Making the rest of the crossings whistle-free would be pretty cost-prohibitive if it meant installing warning devices.

I can't see the three CP-related crossings getting overpasses/underpasses anytime soon. The RoW and the roadways are so crammed-in... there just isn't that much room to play with.

The Richmond railway improvements would be pretty beneficial for all parties involved. A Portside Road overpass is probably the most important/have the most economic impact, followed by a Westminster Highway overpass, but I don't see these upgrades happening without companies like Simard and KTL/Euroasia contributing. They're the ones that would have the most the gain from a Portside Rd overpass, bar none.

[Metro-One]

Well I know that in relation with the Brunette Interchange project the province was proposing some major changes to the road system along that stretch in New West. Maybe these proposals would be incorporated into such a project?

These major port related / railway separation / border projects have had a pretty good track record in becoming reality so far over the last 15 years.

Given the amount of projects listed here (many of them on many forum members’ wish lists) I am surprised that this did not stir up more conversation.

[ssiguy]

This would be a great start but only a small start and I doubt even one quarter of those improvements will be done within the next 30 years.

For some odd reason as soon as the word overpass appears the greeny Vancouverites go balistic claiming they are spending more money for cars and hence not enough on transit. The fact that these are rail grade separations means less than nothing. Vancouver never agrees to anything that would improve the life of drivers no matter how reasonable. It's so engrained in the Gordon Price & company mindset that even rail/road intersections where basic safety of drivers or pedestrians is a valid concern is irrelevant.........to them there is no such thing as a good road. If safety is a concern their only suggestion is to reduce the number of lanes, reduce the speed limit, put in speed bumps, more lights and crosswalks, or a combination of these.

There are a MINIMUM of 30 rail & road grade separations that should take place but the record of them doing so is beyond pathetic. Seriously, the province is doing cartwheels about putting in a new overpass to get rid of one traffic light on a partial freeway {HWY#91} and it only took them 30 years to do after the highway was completed.

[flipper316]

https://www.surreynowleader.com/news...nterflow-lane/

No mention of Highway 17 and the 91 Connector interchange. Wouldn't be shocked if that's killed off.

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by flipper316

https://www.surreynowleader.com/news...nterflow-lane/

No mention of Highway 17 and the 91 Connector interchange. Wouldn't be shocked if that's killed off.

Unless BC gives up on its allocated 33% stake in funding of the project, i doubt it would be killed off. You still have the feds and the first nations contributing to the rest of the project.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

Unless BC gives up on its allocated 33% stake in funding of the project, i doubt it would be killed off. You still have the feds and the first nations contributing to the rest of the project.

The feds are paying 80 million
The Port is paying 80 million
The native band is paying 3 million
The province is paying the rest (just under 80 million)

Only a complete fool would stop a project with that much non provincial funding secured. i have my issues with the NDP, but I doubt they would throw this one away.

This project was never actually linked to the counter flow lane project on the Alex Fraser, even under the Liberals, which seems a little weird. Not sure if this is a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing?

Wish there was actually some more info about the project available, could only find brief mentions of it on the Port of Vancouver's project site. Also any federally initiated highway project always seems to have almost no info available on the internet (for example try getting any clear diagrams for the 4-lanning project through Yoho Park).

The only possible reason for a delay that I can think of (seeing how our first and only public mention of the project was way back in March) is that they may be upgrading the proposed 80th Street ramp into a full interchange (seeing how on the diagrams I posted early on this page there is now an official interest to do so).

I guess we will just have to wait, and wait, and wait and see. Would be nice if someone on here had at least a little inside info on that project.