Calgary Roads

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by Acey

Forgot to post the link to that, it's from StoneGate Landing's map page here: http://www.stonegatelanding.ca/maps_r.php

No doubt drawn up long before the downgrade of Métis... though I much prefer the flow of traffic as seen on this map.

Either way, somebody's planning to build CHB to 4 lanes between Stoney and Deerfoot though, right? It's quickly going to become McKnight v2 as these developments start moving forward.

The city's report when they downgraded showed that traffic would actually flow better on Metis despite it being downgraded - thanks to the additional intersections on Metis (as backwards as that might sound. However, lights could be green on Metis for longer periods of time.

CHB is being twinned right now between 36th Street and Metis - along with the twinning of 36th Street between Airport Trail and CHB. remember that these are paid for by the developer, not the city. The rest of CHB will be twinned at the developer's expense when they want to develop the land. Considering that cityscape is starting, that will likely bring about the twinning of CHB between Metis and 60th St (maybe until the community entrance part way) The section between Barlow and 36th Will still need to be done, however, in 9 months or less, a significant portion of that traffic might head down 36th and go through the tunnel instead of continuing on CHB.

CHB is intended to be an urban blvd, not a major arterial, at least East of Metis. The land at the corner of CHB/60th St is zoned to be Zero property line, 20+ story buildings. The LRT station will quite likely be underground, underneath that intersection, similar to 69th St W, but with density around the station like what is planned for Westbrook.

The planned nature of CHB is one of the major problems with relying on it instead of the tunnel. There are something like 4 intersections planned between 36th st and Barlow.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Acey

I get the anti-road sentiment and induced demand thing, but the SB basketweave just after Southland Dr would be massively beneficial, require no bulldozing, and not really induce any additional demand. Everything else... yeah. Good luck.

Fair point. I also agree with the need for the NB Deerfoot to WB Glenmore flyover. But, in general, Alberta Transportation looks at any project, immediately disregards any budgetary constraints, does a couple lines of coke, and just goes nuts.

The traffic on Métis is already bad. I think the lack of an interchange with CHB is going to really hurt 10 years from now.

Originally Posted by fusili

Fair point. I also agree with the need for the NB Deerfoot to WB Glenmore flyover. But, in general, Alberta Transportation looks at any project, immediately disregards any budgetary constraints, does a couple lines of coke, and just goes nuts.

To be fair, I think the general idea of that particular diagram is to do exactly that, since they call it "long term requirements" as opposed to "long term what we can feasibly build given the sad fact that we have no money". Just disregard any constraints and show the number of lanes that would be required for traffic to flow at an acceptable level in 30 years, or whenever they're predicting.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by Acey

The traffic on Métis is already bad. I think the lack of an interchange with CHB is going to really hurt 10 years from now.

Traffic patterns with the tunnel, fully twinned roads, and actual services in the area with the area built out are going to be significantly different then they are now. A fully built Airport Trail from Harvest Hills Blvd to Stoney makes it the backbone of the roads system for the area. Metis won't have to do that job, and especially not with a two lane stretch. People will also be able to cross CHB on several roads other than Metis.

Metis will still be a road similar to what Anderson Road is right now, able to move lots of traffic.

I must have missed it if you mentioned, what's the timeline for Airport Trail between Métis and Stoney?

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by Acey

I must have missed it if you mentioned, what's the timeline for Airport Trail between Métis and Stoney?

60th to Stoney is already there.

36th Street to Metis is currently tied to the construction of interchanges at Airport Trail/Barlow and Airport Trail 19th Street. This came from the city's agreement with the Airport to build the tunnel. Perhaps the city can get the Airport to relent on this somewhat.

Metis to 60th St could be built, there just isn't much use for it without the 36th to Metis section. In the next five years, as Cityscape and likely the half section of land immediately south of Airport Trail between Metis and 60th St develop, the need for it will increase.

I suspect that development growth will push the city to do what it needs to do to get Airport Trail to go all the way through in the next 5 years, whether that means building the interchanges, or making an alternate deal with the airport.

I don't get the airport's leverage with that? The airport wants the interchanges built because connecting Airport Trail all the way to Métis from Deerfoot would create too much through traffic?

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by Acey

I don't get the airport's leverage with that? The airport wants the interchanges built because connecting Airport Trail all the way to Métis from Deerfoot would create too much through traffic?

That is their line of thinking, yes.

[Ferreth]

Originally Posted by craner

Random statement / question regarding the Memorial - Deerfoot interchange:
Why did they put the LRT tracks at the same level as the auto traffic. They built separate bridges for the LRT, why not take them out of the equasion all together?

IIRC, there was serious consideration given to it at the time of construction to raising the LRT over all turn movements entirely. Even then, concern was raised about traffic FUBAR. In the end it was deemed to expensive, and the upgrade of NB Deerfoot to WB Memorial with the bridge under Memorial EB was all that was built to improve the interchange with LRT additions.

[craner]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

In the future, when flyover ramps are built, and all traffic lights are eliminated, it's much simpler to do that when the tracks are at the same level as the roadway.

Assuming that the tracks would have been built 6 metres above the level of Memorial Drive, that means that future flyover ramps would have to be built 12-15 metres above Memorial Drive instead of 6 metres.

Thanks for the explaination, I assume the city didn't expect it to be 30+ years before the flyovers we're built.

[craner]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

Why would they spend a fortune on LRT flyovers to avoid a minor delay on a couple of turning movements? The minor delay wasn't enough to justify spending on the flyovers for the roads, so why would it be enough to justify spending for rails.

I'm just asking - they built separate structures for the LRT anyway, would it have cost a "fortune" to raise them above the road.

[MalcolmTucker]

It was the 80s. At one point they laid off police and firefighters to deal with budget problems. Costs were definitely a concern.

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by craner

I'm just asking - they built separate structures for the LRT anyway, would it have cost a "fortune" to raise them above the road.

There are three spans that were built for each track, 90-95m over Nose Creek / CPR, 110-120m over Deerfoot and 40-45m over the NB Deerfoot to EB Memorial ramp. Total about 250 m. In these cases, there were no major earthworks needed, since the interchange exists. The shortest span doesn't even need a support column. If a separate structure would have been built, it would have had to start shortly after the Zoo platform (to climb enough to be over the road), and would be back on solid ground somewhere parallel to 18 St SE. That's roughly 850m, over three times as long. Furthermore, the engineering would be a lot more difficult, since the columns that were built would be much higher; that is, instead of 6.5m to provide clearance on Deerfoot, the LRT bridge deck would be 13 m high to provide clearance over both the turn movement and Deerfoot below. If I remember my structures correctly (note - there's a reason I'm in transportation and not structural engineering), doubling a column length requires squaring the strength to avoid buckling. So that adds an additional measure of cost, on top of the structure being three times as long.

The two movements that cross the LRT are WB Memorial to SB Deerfoot and SB Deerfoot to EB Memorial.
Volumes (2011 count; 7AM-7PM) are:

NB Deerfoot to: WB Memorial -  3,100
		NB Deerfoot - 42,200
                EB Memorial - 14,300
SB Deerfoot to: EB Memorial -  7,100
		SB Deerfoot - 38,800
		WB Memorial - 10,200
EB Memorial to: SB Deerfoot -  5,800
		EB Memorial - 14,000
		NB Deerfoot -  3,200
WB Memorial to: NB Deerfoot - 10,900
		WB Memorial - 17,700
		SB Deerfoot -  7,800

About 15K vehicles 7AM-7PM, that's only 8.5% of all traffic, and around 20K vehicles per day. Roads with similar volumes include Ogden Road at the Bonnybrook waste water plant, 68 St NE south of McKnight and Elbow Dr. south of Heritage.

It is a critical intersection... connecting Deerfoot to downtown. Shame it's so sub-par.

[craner]

^^Wow! That was thorough - thanks BBB.
Would be nice if that interchange was upgraded.

[MalcolmTucker]

Way less interactions than 45 St at 17th Ave SW, and many were prepared to have that be a level crossing.

[You Need A Thneed]

Tunnel Construction makes deadline. - Calgary Herald Article

[Dmajackson]

I was looking through the SELRT plans today and I noticed a little corner of the proposed Shepard/Ogden/Glenmore interchange. Does anyone happen to know if it will simply be a standard diamond style interchange on what is currently 24 ST or what is the idea along there?

Also they recently constructed the connector road between Shepard Rd and 24 ST SE. It's not open yet due to some low powerlines.

[CalgaryLankan]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Airport trail will be connected all the way through to 96th Avenue sometime in the next ten days or so according to CBC Radio. They will be only using the South-side lanes, while the bridge on the North-side that goes over Nose Creek is fixed. First vehicle to cross over will be a route 300 bus.

As per Calgary Transit website it seems to be 11.00 AM on Tuesday, Aug 6th.

http://www.calgarytransit.com/route_maps/rte300.html