Amazon HQ2 thread

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Name one relevant to attracting talented young millennials.

High cost of living..

At any rate, I don't know why anyone would assume that the voting patterns of a state would have any relevancy for attracting talent. I've sure as fuck never gone back and looked how a state voted before moving there. People choose to move to a state or not based on salary and cost of living. Talented software engineers move to California because that's where the high paying tech jobs are, not because it's a blue state. Talented finance people move to New York because that's where the finance jobs are, not because it's a blue state. Talented oil, gas and chemicals people move to Texas because that's where the oil, gas and chemicals jobs are, not because it's a red state. etc.

Also, I wouldn't assume that a heavy majority of tech people are super liberal. I'm an electrical engineer and studies I've seen show this career to be one of the most heavily Republican (likely because it's like 95% men and men are much more likely to be Republican). Tech jobs are mostly white and Asian males which isn't exactly core liberal demographics.

[The North One]

I recently learned that Missouri only has one abortion clinic in St. Louis and it kinda blew my mind.

[RCDC]

Originally Posted by BrownTown

...absurd regulations.

Do elaborate.

[Mentallect]

Originally Posted by BrownTown

I'm sure you can find a few instances of idiots trying to inject Conservative propaganda into schools, but I really doubt it comes anywhere close to the amount of Liberal propaganda that's rampant in higher education. The shit my girlfriend is being taught in college now is totally different than what I was taught in college and it's all straight out of the leftist playbook. It's all about how the worlds problems are the fault of white men and capitalists etc. Even if you agree with this sort of stuff you should at least agree that schools should be teaching both sides of the story. It's so bad that my poor girlfriend (who immigrated to the US from Communist Vietnam where her family works in sweatshops for like $1/hr and despises Communism) is forced to write about how great Communism is because apparently that's what they're teaching kids in college these days. She does have one Conservative professor too and that professor also tries to brainwash people so I'm not saying ONLY liberals are guilty of this shit, but something like 85% of college professors are liberals so it's mostly coming from that side. Long story short: we need to keep politics out of education and instead simply teach kids the facts and let them come to their own conclusions.

I say again....

Translation: mono-cultured, church-heavy, Republican strongholds overrun with historically powerful white men seeking to control women's bodies, disenfranchise black and brown people, and trying to make gay people disappear should not get their hopes up about attracting industry dependent on attracting young, progressive, educated and open-minded employees.

If those non-superstar cities want to attract the Amazons of the business world, then they ought to (1) educate their children (2) stop proselytizing and evangelizing (3) believe in science and climate change (4) change gun laws and (5) vote Democrat.

Red state folks have chosen tax breaks over investment, intolerance over diversity, cars over public transit, football over theater, and ultimately the past over the future.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by BrownTown

High cost of living..

I have never, heard of any millennial complain about housing costs in NYC, ever. They know the deal when they move here.

Everyone knows you pay high rent or get roommates. That's how NYC works. It isn't expensive unless you want it to be. And obviously you don't need a car, furniture, or junk to fill your living space, because you have none. If you're broke and waiting tables, you get a cheap room, like everyone else. A simple room costs the same as a regular apartment in Nebraska or wherever.

[Mentallect]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I have never, heard of any millennial complain about housing costs in NYC, ever. They know the deal when they move here.

Everyone knows you pay high rent or get roommates. That's how NYC works. It isn't expensive unless you want it to be. And obviously you don't need a car, furniture, or junk to fill your living space, because you have none. If you're broke and waiting tables, you get a cheap room, like everyone else.

NYC has a high cost of living because people want to live in NY. NY has many things to do, and is alive with life. Yes, it is expensive. In life, you get what you pay for. If a city's cost of living is low, it is because not many people want to live there: No jobs, no amenities, no culture, etc.

[The North One]

That's not true at all...

[dubu]

most people in the us dont like big cities. they are new to us. maybe in a thousand years that will be true. but if you live in a crapy town then it should be real cheap, you never going to meet girls and you have to have a car ect.

the city im in isnt that great but its one of the fastest growing cities right now. people are moving from big cali cities here.

[goat314]

Originally Posted by Mentallect

I say again....

Translation: mono-cultured, church-heavy, Republican strongholds overrun with historically powerful white men seeking to control women's bodies, disenfranchise black and brown people, and trying to make gay people disappear should not get their hopes up about attracting industry dependent on attracting young, progressive, educated and open-minded employees.

If those non-superstar cities want to attract the Amazons of the business world, then they ought to (1) educate their children (2) stop proselytizing and evangelizing (3) believe in science and climate change (4) change gun laws and (5) vote Democrat.

Red state folks have chosen tax breaks over investment, intolerance over diversity, cars over public transit, football over theater, and ultimately the past over the future.

1. Non-coastal cities have universities and "culture" too.
2. Everyone in non-superstar cities are not white, Evangelicals. In fact, the core of most larger post-industrial cities are blacker than superstar cities, while fast growing cities in the Sunbelt are usually heavily Latino.
3. Houston is home to one of the highest concentrations of engineers in the world....ahem Nasa (admittedly Big Oil too), St. Louis has the largest concentration of plant scientists in the world....ahem Monsanto. Both "red states".
4. Gun laws don't automatically stop gun violence if your city has large economically depressed areas. Major correlation between crime and poverty. Chicago has strict gun laws and also the most murders.
5. Voting Democrat or Republican doesn't automatically translate into success, while it may have influence on certain issues. Democratic Detroit, Cleveland, and St. Louis look a lot different than Democratic San Francisco, New York, and Seattle. Globalization has been pushed heavily by both parties and it's hurt the former, while elevated "elite" coastal cities with foreign investment.

With that said, it is very well documented that most major coastal "superstar" cities have just as egregious histories when it comes to redlining and gentrifying people (specifically poor and working class black and brown people) and charging exorbitant housing prices, which locks people of most backgrounds out of the housing market and social mobility. Not exactly what I would call progressive. No wonder there has been a huge out-migration of people to non-superstar cities. Quality of life matters at some point.

[mhays]

Oil and gas engineers, plant-biotech engineers...these are found more in places like Texas and the Great Plains.

The big coastal cities certainly shoot themselves in the foot by limiting infill too much, and having some counterproductive policies (rent control for example). But 20-somethings do tend to be dramatically more progressive than their elders, and the ones who can afford it do disproportionately choose those big coastal cities.

[goat314]

Originally Posted by Crawford

St. Louis is in a deeply red state, so, yeah, it's a consideration. Politics are always relevant.

It isn't unreasonable to think that Missouri could be a state that effectively outlawed abortion, forced teaching of creationism, or banned equal right to marriage, which would obviously affect Amazon employees.

Missouri also just passed a $12 min wage, legalized medical marijuana, voted to end gerrymandering and dark money. Ironically, I think progressive Amazon would be against ending dark money and minimum wage increases.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by goat314

Missouri also just passed a $12 min wage, legalized medical marijuana, voted to end gerrymandering and dark money.

These were voter actions, not legislative actions. Employers fear the underlying state politics.

[goat314]

Originally Posted by mhays

Oil and gas engineers, plant-biotech engineers...these are found more in places like Texas and the Great Plains.

The big coastal cities certainly shoot themselves in the foot by limiting infill too much, and having some counterproductive policies (rent control for example). But 20-somethings do tend to be dramatically more progressive than their elders, and the ones who can afford it do disproportionately choose those big coastal cities.

As somebody that frequently interacts with 20-somethings, I think this assertion is hopeful at best. 20-somethings from upper middle class and rich white families want to legalize weed, but anything that would offend their sensibilities or infringe on their privileges will be shot down immediately. Apple doesn't fall from the tree.

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I have never, heard of any millennial complain about housing costs in NYC, ever. They know the deal when they move here.

You can't actually be serious can you? I hear millennials (and all other age groups) complain about the cost of living in NYC constantly. Hell, I hear them complain about the cost of living here in NJ almost every day. These people didn't move to NYC because OMG NYC, they moved there because that's where you have to move if you want to get a job in their industries. This one girl I was hooking up with a couple of years ago was constantly complaining about paying 70% of her income in rent. Like literally I think the only reason she was hooking up with me was for the free food.

[goat314]

Originally Posted by Crawford

These were voter actions, not legislative actions. Employers fear the underlying state politics.

I won't disagree with that. Missourah is definitely ran by some insane and backwards individuals. I was just going against the idea that everybody in the state is some toothless Huckleberry. Let's not forget that Ferguson, MO (a suburb of St. Louis) is where the modern battle against police brutality was started, because of the draconian policies of the state you're getting some pretty radical, "leftist" movements popping up in Missouri (St. Louis area particularly), but those aren't exactly the type of liberal sentiments a Jeff Bezos would necessarily support or care about. In fact, the people on the ground probably wouldn't even view themselves as liberals, Democrats, just poor and disenfranchised people fighting what they perceive to be the good fight.

Also, a fun factoid....Jack Dorsey (Twitter and Square founder, and St. Louis native) has been quietly moving hundreds of tech jobs back to St. Louis, partly as a response to the high cost of doing business on the West Coast. St. Louis has good universities, underutilized infrastructure, unique local culture, interesting urban neighborhoods, and many people believe it or not don't leave St. Louis because they want to move to the coasts (Although some do), they move to where the jobs and opportunity area (as most people do). In fact, Jack Dorsey and Jim McKelvey have said before that they started their apps in St. Louis, but had to move to San Fran because that's where the money and tech infrastructure was. Now, some of that venture capital and talent is looking for untapped markets. St. Louis has added thousands of tech jobs this year alone and is looking to add even more next year. The number of jobs is peanuts for the Bay Area, but in a city like St. Louis that is just now getting it's footing in the new economy, the spillover of development around the Cortex district has been mind-boggling for this slow growth region.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by BrownTown

You can't actually be serious can you? I hear millennials (and all other age groups) complain about the cost of living in NYC constantly. Hell, I hear them complain about the cost of living here in NJ almost every day. These people didn't move to NYC because OMG NYC, they moved there because that's where you have to move if you want to get a job in their industries. This one girl I was hooking up with a couple of years ago was constantly complaining about paying 70% of her income in rent. Like literally I think the only reason she was hooking up with me was for the free food.

Lol yeah, my cousin lives there because they work in the fashion industry and pay like half their income in rent despite splitting a tiny ass apartment with roommates... Certainly haven't heard any complaints about that situation...



Crawford has the best comments...

[mhays]

Originally Posted by goat314

As somebody that frequently interacts with 20-somethings, I think this assertion is hopeful at best. 20-somethings from upper middle class and rich white families want to legalize weed, but anything that would offend their sensibilities or infringe on their privileges will be shot down immediately. Apple doesn't fall from the tree.

They poll substantially leftward on several issues. The only debatable point is how closely that's related to why tech generally goes to the big leftward cities.

[mhays]

Obviously people complain incessantly about rent levels in the high-cost cities. To claim otherwise is either dishonest or blind.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by BrownTown

Seems unlikely since the Supreme Court says you can't do any of those things. At any rate, you can list a lot of shitty possibilities of living in a blue state to. Most prominently having to pay sky high taxes and deal with absurd regulations.

You really think that Republicans are any less guilty of absurd regulations than Democrats?

[fleonzo]

Originally Posted by goat314

1. Non-coastal cities have universities and "culture" too.
2. Everyone in non-superstar cities are not white, Evangelicals. In fact, the core of most larger post-industrial cities are blacker than superstar cities, while fast growing cities in the Sunbelt are usually heavily Latino.
3. Houston is home to one of the highest concentrations of engineers in the world....ahem Nasa (admittedly Big Oil too), St. Louis has the largest concentration of plant scientists in the world....ahem Monsanto. Both "red states".
4. Gun laws don't automatically stop gun violence if your city has large economically depressed areas. Major correlation between crime and poverty. Chicago has strict gun laws and also the most murders.
5. Voting Democrat or Republican doesn't automatically translate into success, while it may have influence on certain issues. Democratic Detroit, Cleveland, and St. Louis look a lot different than Democratic San Francisco, New York, and Seattle. Globalization has been pushed heavily by both parties and it's hurt the former, while elevated "elite" coastal cities with foreign investment.

With that said, it is very well documented that most major coastal "superstar" cities have just as egregious histories when it comes to redlining and gentrifying people (specifically poor and working class black and brown people) and charging exorbitant housing prices, which locks people of most backgrounds out of the housing market and social mobility. Not exactly what I would call progressive. No wonder there has been a huge out-migration of people to non-superstar cities. Quality of life matters at some point.

Well put...and that’s coming from someone living in NYC!